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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Luckily, the only venomous snake in Idaho is the Western rattler (there are 3 subspecies including the Prairie rattler). They're timid and in 70 years of kicking around the desert, I've only seen a handful. A few people get bitten every year but I've never known any of them personally. Deaths are rare. The poison can be lethal but usually they don't inject very much of it. Even small dogs usually survive.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is jewelry. If you're bitten on a hand or arm, take off anything that has to be pushed on and off, like rings. The hand will swell and a ring or bracelet can become a hazard if it can't be removed quickly.


Seem to be a bunch around central and eastern WA. Early season bird hunting gets interesting when your dog starts pointing rattlers. 😯


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Originally Posted by flintlocke
Originally Posted by Sycamore

the only thing that helps is anti-venom. you may not get any venom. you may not get very much venom. you may get the venom in a place that takes a long time to get moving (good and bad). best thing you can do is notify medical help and get closer to help. take off jewelry, swelling is likely.

suction won't help. electricity won't help. tourniquet won't help (might hurt). ice/cold won't help. most bites by copperheads. most fatalities by eastern and western diamondbacks (volume of venom probably). Most rattlesnakes bites in California and Arizona.


Dr Sycamore, This is the internet, so I have no way to verify your bona fides in the medical field. When you say electricity doesn't help, you are flying in the face of medical research in the field of tropical medicine under which snake bite falls. I don't know how to post a link, so please before you share any more of your opinions, at least google > high voltage snakebite. A New York Times 1986/08/05 "Doctors Corner" will come up, with numerous references with studies on the subject by top researchers in the field of tropical medicine. It quotes studies from The Lancet, and the work of Michigan State Univ, Dr Jeffrey Williams, a respected leader in tropical medicine.
The OP asked what to do about snakebite in remote locations, a stun gun may be a more viable solution than locator devices, helicopters, taking off jewelry,or wrapping the bite with gauze.
I don't own stock in a stun gun company.



Professor Flintlocke,

I don't often read medical journals, but when I do, it's about snake envenomation....

Last article I read was "Thrombotic Microangiopathy Following Hypnale zara (Hump-Nosed Pit Viper) Envenoming: The First Known Case Report from Sri Lanka".






Electric Shock https://www.cprseattle.com/blog/treating-snake-bite-victims-what-not-to-do-and-why-not-to-do-it

The use of electrical shock to treat a snakebite victim is a practice that even today persists in various places, especially in some online “resources”. The theory appears to be that by applying a powerful shock to the victim, that it somehow affects the venom in such a way that it becomes no longer harmful. Various delivery methods mentioned include car batteries, modified electrical equipment, and even Tasers.

Where did this theory originate, and why does it seem to persist? To answer the first question, the practice of treating snakebite with electricity seems to have been in use at the turn of the century1, but had a resurgence in interest after a letter (not peer-reviewed article) was published in 1986 in the Lancet journal by a doctor who claimed to be successfully treating venomous snakebites with electric shock therapy. Picked up by Time magazine, the New York Times, and most notably Outdoor Life, the treatment became more widely noted. Apparently the doctor was basing his theory off of anecdotal information from an Illinois farmer, who made the local paper by claiming that his severe reaction to bee stings was alleviated by the application of a “high voltage, low amperage, direct current shock to the site of his bee stings prevented his usual severe reactions”, however, the doctor did not cite when and where the article was published. For more on this story, see “Does electric shock treatment work for snake bites? Actually, funny story...” and A Review of Electric Shock Treatment for Snakebites (Just Say NO...)




Here's an easy list from wikipedia, almost as old as your reference

Russell F (1987). "Another warning about electric shock for snakebite". Postgrad Med. 82 (5): 32. doi:10.1080/00325481.1987.11699990. PMID 3671201.

Ryan A (1987). "Don't use electric shock for snakebite". Postgrad Med. 82 (2): 42. doi:10.1080/00325481.1987.11699922. PMID 3497394.

Howe N, Meisenheimer J (1988). "Electric shock does not save snakebitten rats". Annals of Emergency Medicine. 17 (3): 254–6. doi:10.1016/S0196-0644(88)80118-5. PMID 3257850.

Johnson E, Kardong K, Mackessy S (1987). "Electric shocks are ineffective in treatment of lethal effects of rattlesnake envenomation in mice". Toxicon. 25 (12): 1347–9. doi:10.1016/0041-0101(87)90013-4. PMID 3438923.


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Dr Sycamore, I am soundly chastised. I can't even pronounce what you apparently read. (I knew I should'a stuck around for that last year of high school). Sorry for the snark.
Because actually, Dr Sycamore, you are kind of right.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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it's all good Flintlocke. At its best, the Campfire is a place where we all learn from each other. At its worst...not so much! grin

Sycamore

p/s when I read a medical journal, I mostly look at the pictures.....


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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electric shock = 21st century voodoo.

But No doubt there would a market for such an
"Enveno-Taser"...featuring; sure grip rubber handle,
easy to use pre-cal. dial settings for diff.snakes...
...order now and get a 2nd E-T absolutely free!

"Comes Pre-charged for your convenience,
bright easy to see LED indicator,
pre-test button, standby mode,
waterproof and drop resistant to 15 feet,
complete with laminated quick ref. snake
ID chart for the novice... Everything you
need to stop snakebite in its tracks
and start saving lives"

Originally Posted by Sycamore

... you may get the venom in a place that takes a long time to get moving (good and bad).


Can you elaborate on that


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Originally Posted by Starman



Originally Posted by Sycamore

... you may get the venom in a place that takes a long time to get moving (good and bad).


Can you elaborate on that


depending on the amount and components of the venom. staying in one place might be good for a neurotoxin, bad if a hemotoxin stayed in one place and did massive tissue damage, hard on kidneys . too much hemotoxin in a vein could wreck circulatory system. (also bad on kidneys.) by moving around.


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Originally Posted by centershot
Pretty obvious none of us know what to do.........


That made me laugh outloud! so true


Your Every Liberal vote promotes Socialism and is an
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Was told by a local ER nurse friend of mine that 99% of the rattlesnake bites they see around these parts are because somebody came across a snake and then started PHHUCKING with it. The antidote will run ya about $20,000 in the ER room. If not more.


Your Every Liberal vote promotes Socialism and is an
attack on the Second Amendment. You will suffer the consequences.

GOA,Idaho2AIAlliance,AmericanFirearmsAssociation,IdahoTrappersAssociation,FoundationForWildlifeManagement ID and MT.

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Originally Posted by Shag
Was told by a local ER nurse friend of mine that 99% of the rattlesnake bites they see around these parts are because somebody came across a snake and then started PHHUCKING with it. The antidote will run ya about $20,000 in the ER room. If not more.


you can't [bleep] with snake because:



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Originally Posted by Shag
Was told by a local ER nurse friend of mine that 99% of the rattlesnake bites they see around these parts are because somebody came across a snake and then started PHHUCKING with it. The antidote will run ya about $20,000 in the ER room. If not more.
You're in Idaho where the only poisonous snakes we have are several subspecies of the Western rattler. They're very timid and you usually see them as they're ducking into the brush. I've never seen one coil. They just want to be elsewhere. With these snakes, it's very true that getting bitten is very rare unless you screw around with it. I can't speak for the diamondbacks, copperheads, and religious snake handlers. I've never been around any of them.


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I’m really surprised how many people on here aren’t sure what to do in the event of a snake bite. Here in Australia I always carry bandages and a PLB and phone (often no service) when I’m hunting as I’m usually on my own. Here is a good link on how to treat bites. I would definitely add a PLB/Inreach to this. There are many other instances and situations where they could save your life. The cost works out as low as $30 a year with the new 10 year battery models.

https://www.stjohnvic.com.au/news/snake-bite-first-aid-tips/

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[quote=kevinJ]Truth be told just stay calm, drink plenty of fluids, and walk out. Call for help when you get to signal

Copperhead bite not going to kill you unless anaphylactic reaction. We don’t administer anti venom to copperhead bites unless certain parameters are met.

Rattlesnake is a very serious thing, and your in trouble. You get anti venom no matter what with this.

Pressure bandage and immobilization if at all possible. Heart rate not that much of a factor. If they bite you in a large vessel your in big trouble anyways. Main thing is get to where you can call for help or help can get to you.

Most snake bites come to ER private auto not ambulance. Most have been over a hour by the time they get to us. They are still doing pretty well normally. Most do great, but seen a few I didn’t thing would make it after rattlesnake bites


+1

A few years back a friend and I were fishing in GSMNP. We were a couple of miles back headed to a creek. As I was bushwhacking through some ferns I heard a rattler. Looked back where I had stepped and I missed stepping on him by only a few inches. Luckily it didn’t strike but I quickly became very cautious of where my next steps would be.

Later I started thinking “what would I have done if I’d been bitten?” Until then I really hadn’t thought about it or had a clue.

STAYING CALM IS THE BEST!

No matter what tragedy you encounter.


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As already stated most snake bites while serious are not fatal. However, if you are unlucky enough to get bitten by a Mojave green rattler you are truly in trouble. Their poison is different than other rattlesnakes, it's a neurotoxin and extremely potent. The Mojave greens as the name suggest live in southwestern US and parts of Mexico.

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No authority on what to do, but I’ve had thick, hard leather turn away 7-8 copperhead strikes. I hope it can turn away a small rattler, but no real clue. Never had one actually get me....but not for lack of trying. I would say I just try not to get bit, but I’ve had my run ins, no matter how careful. Should probably wear snakeproof stuff and carry a kit, at least when spring turkey hunting and fall bow. I’m generally in cell contact and not too long from access. I prep different if I’m truly off grid for long, but nothing snakeproof with regards to boots has ever been suitable for walking very far, at least on my feet. When I get an extra $700, maybe I should call up HG Russell?

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We’ve killed over 50 rattlesnakes on our place in Southern CA including a 4’ no rattle specimen who struck at my wife without warning 15’ from the edge of the pool. He missed her by an inch or less and struck so hard he fell off a small wall. Snake loads in a 357 ended him without damaging the tile.

Our old yellow lab was bitten twice, both Mostly dry bites but the first one kept her from coming into heat for 2 years. We are about 25 minutes from a hospital here so a minimum of 1/2 hour from treatment. Neighboring ranch Is the source of most of our snakes had a horse killed by a large snake - Being careful where you step is a fact of life where we live. Local hunting areas are only slightly more remote with helicopter response. Future son in law killed one with an arrow archery season last year.

Calm, clean, get to the hospital as soon as you can is what they teach these days. Most incidental bites are warnings without much venom injected but if a large pissed off snske let’s you have all the venom you probably have less than 20 minutes left.

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...sounds like TX hill country, and you need a snake killin dog. Used to have a standard doxy that hunted snakes like they were soup bones. He got bit on occasion, but he got them without getting bit far more often. He had a few dealings with the vet, but he lived and built up immunity and would just swell up some then be fine. Killed a LOT of snakes.

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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Luckily, the only venomous snake in Idaho is the Western rattler (there are 3 subspecies including the Prairie rattler). They're timid and in 70 years of kicking around the desert, I've only seen a handful. A few people get bitten every year but I've never known any of them personally. Deaths are rare. The poison can be lethal but usually they don't inject very much of it. Even small dogs usually survive.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is jewelry. If you're bitten on a hand or arm, take off anything that has to be pushed on and off, like rings. The hand will swell and a ring or bracelet can become a hazard if it can't be removed quickly.


The potency of invenomation can depend on the time of year. In the spring the snake is coming out of hybernation and may not have eaten in a few months and not used its venom. In those cases the venom is more lethal. Had a friend at work whose wife got bitten in the morning after he came to work. She was getting the kids on the school bus and she stepped out the door and was standing between the snake and the door.The kids ran out to the bus and the snake bit her as the kids ran by. It was in April and the snake evidently hadn't eaten in a while and its venom was really potent and it injected quite a bit. That woman came close to not making it. The doc told him if it had been another 15 minutes before she got to the emergency room he thought she would have died. In fact, at that time they used to give four test of antivenom to the bite victim to insure they weren't allergic. The doc told him he needed his permission to give the anti venom after the first two because he was losing her. She survived but her leg got huge and black. She got bit in the calf. Lots of Western Diamond backs around here and they get big. That snake was a four footer and I've seen more than a couple of six+ footers around here.

The worst Rattlers are the Mojave. Thank God we don't have those around here. They have Neuro Toxin venom.


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Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
...sounds like TX hill country, and you need a snake killin dog. Used to have a standard doxy that hunted snakes like they were soup bones. He got bit on occasion, but he got them without getting bit far more often. He had a few dealings with the vet, but he lived and built up immunity and would just swell up some then be fine. Killed a LOT of snakes.

If you live in rural Rattler country, cats are good to have around your house. That's why a lot of farmers and ranchers keep cats around.

When I was 11 or 12 we lived just outside of a small Texas coastal town. One day a big yellow tom cat followed me home from school. We fed him and he took up residence. We lived out on the salt grass prairie which is usually full of rattle snakes. Rats and rabbits love salt grass and the snakes love rats and rabbits. One morning as we were going out the side door leading to the car port, there on the porch was a 3 foot rattler dead. We didn't know how it got there, but there he was. Then a few days later there was another dead rattler on that same little porch. This occurred a few more times when we put two and two together and figured out it was our newly acquired cat that was killing these snakes and he would drag them up on the porch to show us he was earning his keep. Either that or he was just a trophy hunter. Anyway, we lived there a couple more years before we moved. That cat was a hell of a snaker. One day I was watching him in the lot next to the house. His head was moving side to side. Then he lurched forward and was fighting with something. Then it dawned on me he was charming a snake. Sure enough later that day another dead rattle snake appeared on our porch.

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Stay as calm as possible and get medical help as soon as possible. The problem is, we all want so much for these various kits and treatments to work that we convince ourselves that they must work. Do the research, not only do they not work, almost all of them do more harm. I'm not an expert. I'm like everybody else here. I hunt around venomous snakes and have for decades. Therefore, I have done my research. We can all do research and find various anecdotal information where one of our pet cures/remedies saved somebody. Do more research to confirm. As to the ones that have supposedly worked once or twice, well, we never know all of the circumstances surrounding that "one time" where it "supposedly worked". In that instance, it may have been a dry bite or some other occurrence. There have been a very large number of studies done and research conducted over the centuries that if there was a cure, remedy or treatment that worked, we would all know about it beyond information provided by either a) the manufacturer's claims; or, b) Clem's story about his cousin Jethro for whom it worked. When an effective treatment, technique or cure is discovered, it will be big news and we will all know about it. Once again, stay as calm as possible and get medical help as soon as possible.


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