Home Forums Reloading Handgun Reloading Another 41 Mag Question

I need to load a couple of hundred rounds for a son-in-law that lives a few hundred miles away. He has an S&W 686, knows nothing about firearms, and can't get loaded ammo, hence the request. While I'm a long time rifle reloader, my handgun reloading has been somewhat limited through the years. It happens I have quite a few pistol powders and I can't tell you why since I only reload for my 9's, 38/357's and 44 mags. I do have a Dillon XL650.

He got a bunch of cast 210g SWC's, source unknown, best I can tell from photos. He's also order some Berry's 215 plated. I have no experience with plated bullets. I have tons of unopened 1# and 4# cans of Red Dot, Clays, 3N37 (4#), Blue Dot, H110 and H4227. I'd like to load up a few rounds for him to try, running them at about 1000fps. While I have a chronograph, getting together with him to try out might be a problem. I'd prefer to use the 3N37 and the Blue Dot since I have about 6# of those but I've been unable to come up with any published loads. I've read of the problems with Blue Dot but I believe that's related to cold and full house loads. All his shooting will be in mild temperatures so I have no concerns with that.

I'd appreciate any and all suggestions for mild loads with particularly those two propellants, but for any of the others I've got.

Red Dot, Clays and Blue Dot (Alliant warns not to use Blue Dot in .41 Mag) are out. I think both 3N37 and even H4227 are a bit fast, though the latter should be OK. The best of the bunch you mention is H110.

I have been loading this cartridge for 35 years, and my favorite powder remains 2400. Unique is also good, especially as a mid range level of power. I use 296 (same powder as H110) for heavy hardcast 265 gr loads for bear protection.

Think about getting some 2400...

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, Third Edition, lists a starting load of Blue Dot at 12.2 grs and a 212gr. PB bullet for 1041fps. and 20, 900 CUP.

It also lists 11.4 grs with a 215 GCSwc for 1003fps at 20,200 CUP.

The same manual lists IMR 4227.
The first bullet starting load is 16.2 grs for 1006 fps at 21,300 CUP.

The latter bullet 14.9 grs. for 956 fps at 20,100 fps..

You should be able to use H4227 and sub the charges, as these are starting loads.

Use at your own risk. I can come up with a lot of BlueDot other than this, but these are from the late 80’s early 90’s.

Thanks guys. I'd still like to come up with some loads for 3N37 since I have so much of it.

GF1--I lean to more powder (slower) for reduced loads so do lean as you. But 2400 and 3N37 are not that far apart on the burn charts I've studied and Unique is even faster. It , along with PB (also faster on the charts,) are suggested here and for cast bullet loads for 44's so I really don't want to eliminate them.

HawkI --Great info! Appreciate it. I'm leaning to Blue Dot in spite of Alliant's warning. They don't provide the same warning for 44's. How does the powder know it's 41 or 44? All the info I read re the warning was that it spiked in cold weather with full power loads. Sounded like a PYA warning to me. No information on the incidents so any powder might have done the same thing in similar circumstances.

Swifty--Appreciate that Blue Dot data. May drop to around 10-11gr which should put me near 1000fps, which should work with the cast bullets.

Still would like to get ANY info on 3N37. Daughter and SIL are coming up this weekend but my range isn't available then. May load up a few and go to BLM land and fire through chronograph. I may work with the burn charts and the loads available for 44's, extrapolate and work backward if we have time during the visit. If not, I'll be working on this for a while.

Also be careful in too much reliance on burn charts. Unique, for example, is very flexible about using in light and heavy loads. Another similar burn rate may have different properties. Others are more niche, such as 2400, H110/296, great powders in heavy loads, erratic in light ones.

I have no idea what caused Alliant to get nervous about Blue Dot in the .41 RM, but I will heed that advice.

Blue Dot variances that Alliant found, in my understanding, are pressure swings at top level loads when going to piezoelectric transducers. Blue Dot burn speed has also gotten slightly faster since Alliant took over the Hercules label.

I have used Blue Dot for mid-magnum loadings in 10mm, 41 Mag , 44 Mag and 45 Colt.

Notice that Blue Dot is primarily a magnum shotshell powder and probably loses its balance point when elevated to magnum pistol pressures, which are the only loads Alliant lists; all maximum loads.

Yeah. And it might not be stable at lower pressures, a problem from which many powders suffer. Forget what the term is for spontaneous detonation at lower pressures. Explodes instead of burning stably and progressively as required for propellants. Wish someone had experience with it and would post!

I've loaded 41 magnum probably more than any other handgun cartridge and definitely longer than any other but never tried 3N37. I never used Blue Dot much in handguns. As was mentioned, 2400 is a great powder. Very versatile. 4227 is another good powder for heavier loads. It can take downloading better than H110. It would be considered a slow powder in handguns. I use a lot of HS6 and Unique for mid range loads.

H110 is a great powder but a one trick pony. It doesn't like down loading at all. I tried back in my handgun handloading infancy and got a few hang fires. I certainly wouldn't recommend it for a mid range load like you are seeking.

I checked Quick Loads for 3N37. It appears to be a mid range powder very close to HS6 in burn rate. Using a Lee 210 grin SWC and 10 grains of 3N37 QL predicts a velocity of 1022 (from a six inch barrel) and a pressure of 15,705, well within the 41 Magnums safe working parameters. Going to 12 grains takes it to 1179 fps and 22,686 pressure. You can use the Quick Load recommendation if you like. I wouldn't be afraid to try that load in either of my 41's and if it were me loading with what you have, I'd use HS6 data since 3N37 is slightly slower than HS6, (but very close) and keep my velocity in the 1000 fps ballpark.

In your original post you said he has an S&W 686. Unless I've missed something, I have not ever seen any factory 686s in 41 Magnum. Is it a 657?

Bob, unfortunately I have had a 41 mag go kaboom. I will not go into details as the last time I did the responses weren’t pleasant. 1986 a 73 model Blackhawk went boom. Split the cylinder, and damaged the hand, pawl and some other parts. Gun was repaired by Ruger at the expense of the commercial (side job) reloader. It’s not an experience I wish to have again. Whether under charge or over charge the proof got destroyed. 😃 I started hand loading in 86, imagine that.

As I posted in the other thread I only use 3 powders consistently in the 41. Unique, AA5 and AA9. The reason for those 3 is that over the years I have found them to be stable and consistent with the bullets I use. They somewhat overlap as AA5 will start just below where Unique leaves off and AA9 starts about mid range of AA5.

RedDot works, Universal works, 296/110 works, Titegroup works, Longshot works just like a lot of others work, but those 3 do exactly what I want in the 41 without fuss or muss whether jacketed or cast.
The only reason I posted the data is you asked and I have it. Do I recommend using it, No.

Experimentation with non recommended powders is not for the faint of heart.

I've opted to experiment a bit, hopefully talk SIL out of his gun for a few days, and test some loads. I have loaded up 10 rounds of 210g SWC over 10gr 3N37 and CCI 350 primer. Found I'm missing the locator pins for 41mag for my press so will wait for a few days to see if I can swap guns for a bit and test his loads over a chronograph. I'm still going to try Blue Dot but only if it's me shooting and I'll use some of the loads posted here.

mart--Thanks a bunch. You know, I don't know what model it is. I thought that's what he told me but it probably is a 657. 6" barrel he said. When I see it I'll know and I'll check and post here.

Swifty-The only gun with which I've ever had a problem was a rifle. I was breaking in a barrel for a gunsmith/riflebuilder friend who guaranteed half inch accuracy. It was a Lazzeroni cartridge and nobody had data. Buddy, a dentist in the East, ran some numbers on computer, I verified with the gunsmith who checked with the owner-to-be, and got the go ahead. Bulged the very heavy barrel with a starter load! No other damage. Saw a rangemaster fire a newly reworked 45 that blew up in his hand. I want no more part of either and I'm not shooting somebody else's gun and reloads like that rangemaster.Those are the only incidents over 60 years of reloading. But I'm a neophyte on pistols. I don't really like powders that use less than 60% of powder chamber volume like you do in light loads for pistols. In rifles I go for the slower powders that fill the powder chamber at least 90%, and compressed loads are frequent also. Wouldn't do it in pistols. I've used the last of my Unique which I love in 9mm's, and I even use it in 38's, but it's way too fast I think for the 41 in a reduced load, as are Red Dot and Universal. Maybe I'll try 110. I just don't have much experience with pistol load experimenting which is why I'm asking. I'll also try 4227 but I'm enamored of the Vihtavouri powders in rifles which is the direction I want to go. The Blue Dot is unopened and I have no clue why I even have it, which is why I was trying to use it. He's got those Berry's bullets and I've gotten hold of some Starline 41 brass so I can load a couple of hundred rounds for him. I welcome any and all comments and experience and appreciate ALL these comments

Thanks all!

Unique in a 41 magnum makes a great reduced load. I've lost track of how many rounds of 41 magnum with Lyman 410259 220 grain bullets and 7.5 grains of Unique I've sent down range. Never considered it too fast for the 41 Magnum, nor any other big bore revolver. I use it in my 480 Ruger quite a bit. As much as I like some of the many handgun powders available, I think I could be happy with only Unique and 2400. The two of them can cover every revolver application I would need addressed.

I have to kinda laugh when people say Unique is too fast for the 41 or any pistol round. One must consider that powder has been around since 1900 and has been used in just about, barring military every rifle and pistol round made. It’s the most universal powder to ever be invented. Cast bullets for rifle including 30.06 yep been done. 380, 9mm, 357, 38 special, 44 mag, 44 special, 45 ACP damn I just can’t really name something I can’t use Unique in.

I shoot 41 magnums all the time, mostly with Unique for every day loads & then switch to 2400 for serious work. You can use H110 & magnum primers if you want top end loads but I don't usually go past what 2400 will do for me. I never, ever use Blue Dot in anything. Freedom Arms suggests you never use it the 41 magnum.
I don't use any of the "V" powders, they are always more expensive & I can match them with the above powders, my opinion. Accurate #9 is also a great powder in the 41 if you want max velocities. The 41 isn't fussy, but shooting 41's in a model 686 might be a little hairy!

Dick

Ken Water's Pet Loads shows a 6.8 grain load of Red Dot behind a 210 grain cast SWC doing 977 fps. I shoot this load out of a Freedom Arms Model 97 and find it quite comfortable.

Agree, I have loaded 7.5 RedDot using a 215 MBC hard cast and found it to be a comfortable load to shoot.

I've loaded 85 rounds with 3N37 and the 210 SWC bullets I had. If they shoot OK, that's what I'll end up with and will load the Berry's 215's with that combination. If they don't work for any reason, I'll experiment with a few of the suggestions here for the powders I have. I don't intend to buy any more as I need to use up what I have. With all the rifle powders I have I'm way beyond what the US Fire Marshall says is safe powder storage. It's doubtful I'll be able to use up everything I have before the end of my days. I don't have enough of some of the suggested powders, I've run out of Unique as mentioned above, and I figure any powders much less than 10g in this combination, have too much air space in the powder chamber and I'm not comfortable with that. May change if I get any muzzle flash with this current load but it looks like this powder fills about 60-70% which to my mind seems about right. Red Dot may be my next step if needed, using data provided by Remington40x. I appreciate ALL the info provided. Thanks!

I'll post further when I figure out which pistol he has and if I shoot at all when SIL visits this weekend I'll post results of these reloads.

That's a 4" Model 57.