Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Canadian views on what might be called AR cartridges

Steve thanks for the info, think I will just go without sending in the dummy cartridge. Just going to let them know I plan on using 70 to 90 grain bullets.

With components being so scarce now I am looking at what all I have here to load. Got a couple thousand 6mm bullets and plenty of 223 brass to keep me shooting for a long time. I do shoot and load for the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC among lots of other chamberings but right now the 6x45 is looking pretty good to me.

I have rifles for many purposes, but can't find a purpose for a 6mm any more. I hunt varmints ( .22 cal centerfires and rimfire) and fur bearing critters like coyotes ( similar .22 cal cartridges / bullets) and I used to shoot .243's or .250 Savage / .257 Roberts cartridges for deer, but found I prefer either faster / longer range cartridges or heavier bullets. So now the .25-06 / 120 grain is my smallest caliber rifle for hoofed game. And I prefer 7mm for most medium game. A 140 grain bullet at 2800 fps is a good starting point for me. And I am content to use a couple of very accurate .222 and .308 rifles for target shooting. So none of the new AR cartridges appeal to me for any purpose I can think of.

I think you'll like it. My rifles are both 1 in 10 twist and shoot 70 to 90 grain bullets just fine. This target is 40 shots with two different bullets, shooting into 2.4 inches. The 6x45mm is capable of great accuracy. In this case, the accuracy was helped by a Shilen SM barrel. The cases weren't Lapua, Starline or any of the high priced brass. They were once fired military brass opened up to 6mm. When you launch an 85 gr bullet at 2700-2750 fps, it has an effective range of about 150 yards on deer.



This target was the very first I fired after loading up some home made 76 gr. bullets. Like the 223, the 6x45mm isn't finicky WRT loads or bullets. Some shoot better than others, but you won't have to work very hard to find a load that works.

Just placed the order with MGM for a 6x45mm 20" stainless steel medium factory contour barrel. The wait begins, but gives me some time to think about a scope and some rings.

Ill jump in since it seems more Americans have Canadian views than
Canadians.


Those cartridges exist to fit in the space constraints of the AR platform.
Unless you have one of a very few actions scaled to fit them,
what's the point?

I can load 6x45 or Grendel performance from 6mm/243 or 260/Creed
if I want that low performance from a short action.

Given the recoil levels of full power loads, I can't imagine a reason to.
If I'm trying to suit a kid, lower pressured rounds would help noise levels
slightly. Advantage bigger rounds.

223 I can see due to high volume varmints. Thats not me though.

Not if CZ would change their safety and price the guns like they were
in the past? A Grende l or a 7.62x39 would be cool as hell in a tiny
527 Carbine.

JMHO

IMHO the range is much longer than 150. Having done almost to 600 and just fine results of 75s at about 2700. Its bullet choice and where you hit em.

Since the 6x45mm is a necked up 223, any action chambered to the 223 should work just fine. Do you think that the action should be scaled down to a mini Mauser size? I had a mini Mauser in 7.62x39. I found it was like carrying a toy rifle. I guess we all have our preferences.



I haven't shot anything with my 6x45s past 250 to 300 yd, but they were coyotes, not deer. Personally, I wouldn't use a 6x45mm for deer for distances past about 150 yd, but that's a personal choice.

I think shooting a 223 is cheating in Farky class.

I think the mini Mausers are cool as hell.
Never owned one though.
Wouldn't be the first time I got something I really liked,
and ended up owning something I didn't really like.

Steve: I had a .223 as my primary varmint rifle (CZ) sold it and bought a .17 HMR also a CZ. I really only shoot squirrels of the ground and tree variety so nothing larger was needed. For my style of shooting involving lots of walking and shooting kneeling or sitting off of cross sticks the .17 has the same effective range as the .223; limited of course by my skill set not the inherent range of the cartridges.

I had a Swiss Arms Special Green for several years it was fun and I had a passing fancy of putting a 6mm barrel on it and hunting deer with it. Never followed through with it as I do not really like the semi auto platform. It was sold a couple of years before the Trudope OIC ban.

On the rare times I put any effort into shorting coyotes I have used “deer” cartridges with varmint bullets, .270, .260 and .25-06.

I find myself solidly in the bolt gun camp, I have owned and hunted with single shots both break action and falling block, lever guns, bolt guns of course but never a semi auto. I now only have bolt and lever rifles.

The go to calibres for everything over squirrel variants over the past 7 years have been; .260, .270, 7-08, .325 WSM, 9.3x62 (since sold). Next up in the development team 6.5 PRC (rebarreled my .325), .375 H&H and .243 I’ve had for years but has never met expectations.

I do not see myself ever moving into the AR based cartridges. If something lighter is needed “downloading” a larger cartridges works well. I recently loaded hunting ammunition for a buddy who took his slightly built 14 year old nephew hunting, the .243 with the 85 grain TTSX loaded a third of the way up from minimum charge provided an easy shooting load completely capable of killing deer within the 200 yard limit set by my buddy and his nephew.

Sorry for the long drawn out response when a simple “not interested” might have sufficed but I did want to provide the background for my response.

No problem. Having discussions is fun and informative. Not like most that happen here. God help you if you disagree!

A lot of people do not recognize that we hunt in different areas, with different terrains and for different animals. Since I got back to Ontario, most of my hunting is at ranges of 250 yards or less. Your requirements are different than mine. The same goes with scopes and action types. We all have our likes and dislikes.

Absolutely.

I have mentioned my experiences with cartridges and
some bullets. Not extensive by any means, but more than
one offs also.

Thing is, I don't make [bleep] up.
I'm also someone who thinks the situation out and
tries to come to a legitimate conclusion.

The things I have seen might be much different hunting
in different ways. Even just how one places shots.

Some things I see bother me.

For example, 308, 165 BT (old 100 count box)
For some reason, I get the absolute best kills on deer
with that setup. Without destroying them.

Better than smaller rounds, better than 7mm and 300 mags.

I think bullet choices in the others are an issue,
But the same bullets in the 300 haven't seemed as good?

Weird!
Doesn't make sense, even to me.

Not my thing but if people enjoy a different chambering why not. My bases are covered with .223 for coyotes and the .243 for a crossover deer/coyote gun, but I have nothing against someone wanting a unique cartridge. I don’t think they’ll ever take off here though.

The AR is a very good platform for hunting. Up here, we could use Robinson Arms in -say- 6.5 Grendel, but it come to over $2.5k. RDB and Tavor are not there yet.
Without the AR - which would come at a comparable price with a bolt rifle - the interest is exponentially diminished, as tinkerers are not motivated and the novelty not spread... making the whole deal arduous.
A lot of Canadians hunt with SKS and many used M14. That would be a crowd interested in Grendel or 6.8...

Another case that you might consider is the 25-45 Sharps.

Here in BC we have large areas to hunt , still. The primary game are deer and moose. A 30.06/308 is an ideal cartridge for such a hunter. .Bear, wolves, coyote and elk are also on the menu. But I haven't heard of anyone in BC going after varmints, they have to travel to Alberta for that.

The 25-45 Sharps is an interesting cartridge as well.

The younger generation who are looking for a deer cartridge, good to 300 yd, don't care for Granddad's old 30-30, but they might be interested in what US shooters use in their ARs. 6x45mm, 25-45 Sharps, 6.5 Grendel. Just for fun, I crunched some recoil and velocity numbers for the 6.5 Grendel and the 30-30. Perhaps develop a load for their AR that can do double duty in a bolt or SS rifle.

I have shot all these loads from either my Contender, Encore or lever. The yardage, after the bullet weight, indicates how far from the muzzle the bullet gets with less than one inch of drop and retains over 1000 ft/lb of energy.

The difference between 8 and 13 ft/lb of recoil isn't important I don't think, but the reach of the cartridges is. I think if I was looking for a 300 yd or less deer cartridge, I would be tempted to check out the Grendel.

Some food for thought.


6.5 Grendel - 2600 fps MV - - 123 SST - 250 yd - less than an inch of drop - 1000+ ft/lb -- 8 ft/lb recoil

30-30 - 2450 fps MV - 150 Hornady RN - 160 yd - less than an inch of drop - 1000+ ft/lb -- 13 ft/lb recoil

30-30 - 2580 fps MV - 125 Hornady SST - 175 yd - less than an inch of drop - 1000+ ft/lb -- 8.5 ft/lb recoil
30-30 - 2300 fps MV - 150 Hornady SST - 175 yd - less than an inch of drop - 1000+ ft/lb --11 ft/lb recoil