Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles D'oh!

Don't you just hate it when that happens

Seat it out a tiny bit more.

Was at the lands. 87 Vmax. H4895. Varget sprayed em like a shotgun. Most of the 4895 loads did too, except this one looked promising at first. That flyer was mid group, third shot or so. Not sure what to make of it. Never tried the 87 Vmax before.

Try the same load but using IMR 4895 and compare your results....vs H 4895...

same with Varget... and then try the same charge using IMr 4320....and compare your results...

I could give 4320 a try. It was nothing special with the 88 Bergers but it may like the 87 Vmax better. Already tried Varget, and it was awful.

The rifle will shoot, but it may just be picky. Here are 88 Bergers and H4895, so I don't think there is anything out of whack. Maybe just a finicky gun.

Seat deeper in 5 thou increments.

Yeah, that thought occurred to me, the Vmaxes may he wanting some jump. Before I start swapping powders around I will probably try that first.

Auk1124: No I would no longer say "I hate this when it happens"!
I now say, in instances like this, "that was my fault - concentrate - sight alignment, trigger control (squeeze - don't jerk!). And then commit to not failing in my efforts on the next grouping".
For the first 2 decades of my quest to attain accuracy and develop very accurate handloads I would indeed bemoan and hate it when a "flier" would spoil an otherwise notably good grouping (I fire 5 shot groupings for the very most part).
And for those 2 decades my loading room and powder storage locker were only festooned with my best (smallest!) targets (groupings with NO fliers).
BUT.... that did not seem to improve upon my occurrences of one shot fliers "spoiling" my groups.
SO.... for the last 3 decades I only tape up my groupings which show a single "flier" that has spoiled that otherwise good (great) grouping.
I have about 40 of these "spoiler" type targets on my powder storage lockers double doors!
I head each one "Famous Fliers I Have Shot" and clearly denote the "spoiled" group size and along with the groups size without the flier.
This constant reminder to me (every time I go for powder and/or primers) seems to be working for me - I now have a lower "percentage" of one shot fliers in my five shot groupings.
YOU are human - you made a human error of some type to send that bullet that far out of the grouping.
I think you will do better next time out (think positive).
Best of luck to you in your load development.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Oh, there's no doubt that I am the weak link in the chain. I get plenty of flyers and screwups, same as everyone. Probably more than most. I will play with seating depth and introduce a little jump and see if things look better next time.

Buy a Tikka

or Savage

I usually start fiddling with seating depth when it appears i am that close which is why I said that. Sounds like You're on the right track. Good luck!

Laughing, I don't know how many times I blew a screamer group with the fifth shot.

In fact, on one of my rifles, its very best group, a 320, was fired with me watching and yelling "Don't Choke" for the last two shots. It's my favorite target.

Does it look like these? Consecutive 5 shot groups.

Not as pretty as those, not by a long shot. However, it's dead nuts center, exactly an inch high, and just a little oblong horizontally. There were around 20 witnesses and a lot of clapping and cheering after the last shot didn't make the group any bigger. It was the best group fired all day at "Hunter Sight In."

Not too shabby for a Salvage 10 FP with a Trashco scope.

Wasn’t trashing, but plain and simple fact. It doesn’t matter one iota if the group is in the 10 ring or cuts the X completely out. A one thou smaller group outside the ten compared to one in the ten wins every time. Group size is group size no matter where it is on the target.
Now as far as to the OP popping one just out of the group, the old adage is 2,3,4 touching one out, seat deeper. I should have posted my 110 Accubond seating depth test target instead. I used a proven load that groups to foul the rifle then tested 5 different seating depth loads all using the same charge. Even the foulers were the same charge. 1 seating depth actually grouped, 1 semi grouped and 3 didn’t group at all.

With rare exceptions, I find that powder changes affect grouping less than most other factors, especially when you're talking two very similar stick powders produced in the same plant like Varget and H4895. Bullets, seating depth, and run out are what I usually end up chasing to find a decent load once the rifle, scope and mounts are proven to be solid.

There's no information on what cartridge, rifle, scope, etc. you're shooting. Without telling us that anything someone recommends is just flinging poo at the wall.

Shilen 6br tight neck barrel on a Savage action. Neck turned Norma brass, neck sized with Redding bushing die, seater is Redding micrometer competition. It is always possible the scope is wonky, but before I start playing musical chairs with scopes, I will play with seating depth some first. Rifle has spat out some good groups with Bergers so I suspect the bullet and loading dimensions more than the scope at this point, but that is of course subject to change.

First off, this is NOT a poke at the OP.

When I see discussions concerning group size or group anomalies and everybody chimes in with excellent suggestions, I can't help but wonder why the first questions aren't about bench technique, setup, and weather/light/wind conditions. I guess we jump to the assumption that every Joe Shooter uses but the best gear, is a pro at reading conditions, and is a steely-eyed marksman who always puts every single shot exactly where it's meant to go.

Like I said, I'm not taking a poke at anybody. Just making kind of a philosophical observation about human nature.

Weather was typical mid to upper 80's, high humidity, wind was calm. Shot with a Protektor rabbit ear rear bag and Caldwell deluxe front rest. Stock is a Stockade Savage stock, professionally bedded, sling studs removed to ride in bags better. There is no doubt that the flyer could be all on me and technique related, just offering it up for discussion. I was mainly curious if anyone had seen similar issues with 87 Vmaxes.

Groups measure precision, scores measure accuracy. Back when men were steel and ships were wood they used string measure to determine who was best. I don’t recall the precise numbers but some years back a fella shot a 20 shot string at 40 rods with a string measured score of about 6”. That’s the aggregate of distance from POA to POI (center) for 20 shots. With lead and Lord Black.

Some scores of 10 shots at 80 rods were sub 10” way back then.

Lastly, and I’m not picking on anyone in particular, cast bullets are a rather demanding lot. They are near perfect or flyers will frustrate routinely. Too, if one wants to learn the shooting discipline in a hurry, start with a flintlock...offhand. Thou shalt follow through or the crowd will surely laugh at you.