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A real black eye for baseball.


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I don't know how this will fit in here but my father was quite a star pitcher during the late 1930s in the Shenango Valley area ( Sharon/Farrell ) of western PA. He's in the Mercer County Hall of Fame for baseball.
He was 6'3" and in later life was a local scout for the Kansas City A's then the Royals. Back in the middle 1960s and later when he was scouting I remember he had papers that basically said the majors were only looking for players over 6' and 200 pounds. They would love them to be a college graduate too.
I must have gotten some or his skill because I was a pretty good baseball player in high school. But that didn't mean anything because I was only 5'8" back then. I remember when I was first married I played on a local baseball team in Centre County PA. It had a couple of Penn State players on it. One of them was a college All-American at that time. He was really good. I remember he was only as tall as I was. Never heard of him being signed. Seems the only way a guy under six foot could get into the majors was as a pitcher.
I love the sport of baseball but it seems like the movie Rudy. If you're a 5 foot nothing 150 pound nothing forget it.

Last edited by StuckInOhio; 06/15/20.

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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by add
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Dude now makes Michael Jackson look like Wesley Snipes.


Changed everything but the ears - which is where he should have started.


Epstein didn't kill himself.

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Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by JGRaider
There's no substitute for velocity that's for sure. Saying used to be "we can teach a guy who throws 95mph to throw sliders and changeups, but we can't teach a guy who throws 85mph to throw 95mph. I'd have to say anymore that you're correct.

One thing that baffles me to this day.....how can everybody throw 95-100mph today, when 30 years ago a guy who threw 92mph was considered a hard thrower? Only thing I can think of is that back in earlier days, the radar gun picked up the ball a few feet after the pitcher let go of the ball, maybe almost half way to home plate. Today I believe it picks up the ball right out of the pitcher's hand. Big difference.


Can't really comment on difference in radar guns, but I do think that the kids on average are just bigger today (with or without steroids) than 30 years ago, and bigger = more velocity. Is it better mechanics? Personally find that hard to believe, given some of the funky deliveries that I see and the Tommy Johns that are performed.

You must be younger than I am, "earlier days" for me was pre-radar, LOL.


More top tier white athletic talent used to go into basketball. Now those kids are more likely to go into baseball and being taller have better biomechanics, on average, than did the pitchers a few decades back.


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Like the 30 for 30 and saw the one mentioned.

Roids could not make you a MLB hitter ( or pitcher) BUT it could make a major leaguer better. Remember the $6 million man “better, faster, stronger “ ? That’s what Roids do , plus keep you on the field- healthy plus recovery is quicker

There is an interesting article still available , an interview, from one of the first players who spoke to media about personally using Roids. Eye opener

Two exercises that are informative to me :

1. Take Fred McGriff’ s stats and compare , year by year, to Bonds. When the age thing caught Fred his offensive stats tailed off. Bonds trended upwards from the same age....

2. Take Mantle’s stats and add 10%. That is how much more time he would have spent on the field because Roids would have helped that much. THEN add 3 ‘average’ years to his career for the same reason.

See what I mean

No they should not, in my opinion, be in the HOF, because of that reason

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Originally Posted by AB2506
For some reason I never could stand Carl Lewis. Too much arrogance and too much propping up by the American press.

In 1998, Lewis was beaten at the Seoul Olympics by Canadian Ben Johnson. Lewis and his coach immediately appealed, and Johnson was caught on anabolic steroids. Johnson was stripped of the medal and it was awarded to Lewis. Johnson cheated and it was appropriate justice.

What chokes is that the gold medal went to Lewis.

Canada had a major inquiry as to why Johnson was cheating. What came out was: many, if not all of the top sprinters were juicing, including Lewis. Why was Johnson caught and not Lewis? Lewis had a better doctor and a coach who was not bragging about how he had developed the best juicing regime. Lewis's doctor better understood how to get the athelete off the juice so it would clear his system before testing.

The whole incident caused me to dislike Lewis even more.


Theres pictures out there of Ben Johnson on so much $hit his eyes are yellow. He was on f'ing everything...................................but so was everyone else. The Russian Dr. that orchestrated the Russian doping program was asked if you could win a gold medal without doping. After a looooooong pause he said no. Your f'ing crazy if you dont thing many athletes are on the $hit. It wequals millions of dollars in contracts. I'd take everything in the world for A-rods money

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Jeff....I remember Wakamatsu, but didn't know him personally. My friend Romy Cucjen was a teammate of his and Barry Bonds. That's where I first found out how big of an asshat Barry Bonds was.

Godogs, that's one thing a guy could immediately see in pro ball. The outfielders were all fast, very fast, especially at AA and above. You really had to earn your hits. The best example I could ever cite was when the Giants drafted Will "the thrill" Clark in 1st round of 1985 draft. The Giants had hopes of sending him to Fresno (upper A ball) when MS State got through in the College World Series. IIRC a guy named Roger Clemens ended MS State's fun at the CWS. In the time between when they drafted Will and the CWS was over was a period of a couple of weeks I believe. The media was having fun in Fresno telling everybody to not expect great things out of Will at first as he would have to get used to using wood, and that wood was way different than aluminum. Well they were theoretically right about that, but Will put a clamp on that fun by going 4-5 with two HR's, and two doubles in his first game with us in Fresno. Absolutely amazing ability he had, but he was also the hardest worker by far. We hit it off pretty good becuase he was basically a good ol' boy from S Louisiana who loved to hunt and fish, which was right up my alley.

add, when Sosa and Pudge came out to Midland to look, at investment opportunities, Sosa was already "turning light" for lack of a better word. Pudge gave him a ration of crap for 3 days about him wanting to look like Michael Jackson. I laughed 'til my sides hurt at those two.


Thanks for the stories.

I always enjoyed watching Will play........

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Originally Posted by StuckInOhio
I Seems the only way a guy under six foot could get into the majors was as a pitcher.


Hard to believe that was ever true, it sure as heck ain't the case now.

I always thought one of the beauties of baseball was that you didn't have to be big to be good. I want to believe that is still true, but it sure has to help to be big. In the case of pitchers, it is well-nigh mandatory.

I was 6 feet tall and weighed about 135 and pitched in D-1 as a walk-on. That doesn't happen anymore.


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Baseball is a sport that TV can not do justice. You need to be in the park to really enjoy baseball. I have watched the Mariners when they were in their heyday. Jr. was awesome to watch along with Edgar, Bone, and the rest of the players that came along during that time.

Somebody can correct me if this is not right, but wasn't Sosa caught with a corked bat when it broke at the plate during the HR run?


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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Jeff....I remember Wakamatsu, but didn't know him personally. My friend Romy Cucjen was a teammate of his and Barry Bonds. That's where I first found out how big of an asshat Barry Bonds was.

Godogs, that's one thing a guy could immediately see in pro ball. The outfielders were all fast, very fast, especially at AA and above. You really had to earn your hits. The best example I could ever cite was when the Giants drafted Will "the thrill" Clark in 1st round of 1985 draft. The Giants had hopes of sending him to Fresno (upper A ball) when MS State got through in the College World Series. IIRC a guy named Roger Clemens ended MS State's fun at the CWS. In the time between when they drafted Will and the CWS was over was a period of a couple of weeks I believe. The media was having fun in Fresno telling everybody to not expect great things out of Will at first as he would have to get used to using wood, and that wood was way different than aluminum. Well they were theoretically right about that, but Will put a clamp on that fun by going 4-5 with two HR's, and two doubles in his first game with us in Fresno. Absolutely amazing ability he had, but he was also the hardest worker by far. We hit it off pretty good becuase he was basically a good ol' boy from S Louisiana who loved to hunt and fish, which was right up my alley.
add, when Sosa and Pudge came out to Midland to look, at investment opportunities, Sosa was already "turning light" for lack of a better word. Pudge gave him a ration of crap for 3 days about him wanting to look like Michael Jackson. I laughed 'til my sides hurt at those two.



Since y'all like the stories. Here's one JG will love. He played with some of these guys.

About 1990, I went to Braves/Giants game at Fulton Co stadium with my best friend BIg Darrell. BD was a defensive end at MSU '82-'86. Darrell was 6'3 and 290 then, and most of it was a mouth. Since it was late in the season and the Braves were still terrible, there was nobody in the stands, maybe 3500 fans, so we got seats about 15 rows behind the Giants dug out.

Right when the Giants finished infield warm up, BG hitches up his britches and walked right down next to the dugout as the players ran in. In the loudest Darrell voice possible, he shouts so that everyone could hear him (and I mean everyone)! :

"WILL CLARK IS A PUSSY!!!"

Will Clark's head snapped up with a scowl on his face looking for the A-hole shouting at him and sees Darrell. Big grin breaks out on his face "I thought I felt the earth tilt to this side when your big ass sat down!"

Clark came over a stood around and chatted us up until literally the first pitch. Invited down to the clubhouse for the post game spread. Gave the clubhouse boy $50 just to make sure my hand always had a beer in it. Clark is going around introducing me to different players. I knew Brett Butler because he lived near me, so I suddenly had street cred. Next thing I know I'm drinking beer and eating off a mountain of cold boiled shrimp on ice. They had deli sandwiches, fried chicken etc for the post game spread. I'm talking with Kevin Mitchell, Terry Kennedy, Atlee Hammaker, etc. Jeff Brantley was on that team and played at Miss State, so he and BD and Clark were all big buddies.

Went clubbing afterwards. Man, the Big League life! It would have killed me, but it is everything you dream about, if you're good enough, long enough.

JG - I forgot Bedrock was on that team and he was my patient for years. He showed me around too.

Last edited by hatari; 06/16/20. Reason: bedrosian

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Originally Posted by BluMtn
Baseball is a sport that TV can not do justice. You need to be in the park to really enjoy baseball. I have watched the Mariners when they were in their heyday. Jr. was awesome to watch along with Edgar, Bone, and the rest of the players that came along during that time.

Somebody can correct me if this is not right, but wasn't Sosa caught with a corked bat when it broke at the plate during the HR run?


The corked bat was a fewe years after '98 as I recall. He "said" it was his exhibition bat he used in BP to put on a show. Maybe...
None of his other bats were found to be altered when MLB seized them and xrayed them. So maybe......


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

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Too funny Jeff. I love that story. Did you by any chance meet John Burkett or Greg Litton? How about Wendell Kim? Wendell was my manager for 2 yrs in Shreveport. Hammaker came down to Shreveport to do a little rehab, IIRC 1987. One of the many clowns on our team nailed his shower shoes to the floor of his locker and put a scoop of vaseline in his towel. Hammaker was pretty quiet, but even got a chuckle out of it.

I still have an old video around here on VHS from 1985 about the Fresno Giants. There's a piece in there on a brawl we got into with another team where Will ran in from first base and was sort of standing ready behind the pile. Some dude from the other team ran up behind Will and sucker punched his azzz big time. Gotta hand it to Will though, his knees buckled a bit but he didn't go down!

When you got Will in a small group of guys he was always a great guy to be around and lot's of fun.


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Burkitt was there, but I didn't ever talk to him until he was a Brave much later. Litton was there and may have been a rookie. I'm not sure if this was '89 or 90.
Kim was the 1b/3b coach. I didn't talk with him.
Bedrock told me Clark was the top salary on the team at $2 mil per year. Not bad!


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

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I remember Will got a $200k signing bonus in 1985 and that was HUGE money then, even for a #1 pick.


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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Too funny Jeff. I love that story. Did you by any chance meet John Burkett or Greg Litton? How about Wendell Kim? Wendell was my manager for 2 yrs in Shreveport. Hammaker came down to Shreveport to do a little rehab, IIRC 1987. One of the many clowns on our team nailed his shower shoes to the floor of his locker and put a scoop of vaseline in his towel. Hammaker was pretty quiet, but even got a chuckle out of it.

I still have an old video around here on VHS from 1985 about the Fresno Giants. There's a piece in there on a brawl we got into with another team where Will ran in from first base and was sort of standing ready behind the pile. Some dude from the other team ran up behind Will and sucker punched his azzz big time. Gotta hand it to Will though, his knees buckled a bit but he didn't go down!

When you got Will in a small group of guys he was always a great guy to be around and lot's of fun.


I remember Wendell from when he was the third-base coach for the Cubs. I always called him Wavin' Wendell because I don't think that there was a single instance when he held a runner at third. My million-dollar idea was to make up some of those garden spinners that are wind-activated featuring Wendell with his arms as the spinners.


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You're right about that 5sdad! I'm sure you know this but Wendell's story is a sad one. He got early onset Alzheimers and lived in a full time care facility since he was about 60, and died shortly thereafter there.


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Awesome stories guys , keep them coming

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Jeff....I remember Wakamatsu, but didn't know him personally. My friend Romy Cucjen was a teammate of his and Barry Bonds. That's where I first found out how big of an asshat Barry Bonds was.

Godogs, that's one thing a guy could immediately see in pro ball. The outfielders were all fast, very fast, especially at AA and above. You really had to earn your hits. The best example I could ever cite was when the Giants drafted Will "the thrill" Clark in 1st round of 1985 draft. The Giants had hopes of sending him to Fresno (upper A ball) when MS State got through in the College World Series. IIRC a guy named Roger Clemens ended MS State's fun at the CWS. In the time between when they drafted Will and the CWS was over was a period of a couple of weeks I believe. The media was having fun in Fresno telling everybody to not expect great things out of Will at first as he would have to get used to using wood, and that wood was way different than aluminum. Well they were theoretically right about that, but Will put a clamp on that fun by going 4-5 with two HR's, and two doubles in his first game with us in Fresno. Absolutely amazing ability he had, but he was also the hardest worker by far. We hit it off pretty good becuase he was basically a good ol' boy from S Louisiana who loved to hunt and fish, which was right up my alley.

add, when Sosa and Pudge came out to Midland to look, at investment opportunities, Sosa was already "turning light" for lack of a better word. Pudge gave him a ration of crap for 3 days about him wanting to look like Michael Jackson. I laughed 'til my sides hurt at those two.


Will Clark was my kind of ball player

I loved the very short time he spent in STL


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