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Good morning, y’all. I’ve got a pretty basic question that could probably be answered with a little searching on my part, but where is the fun in that?
Me and a couple of my Marine buddies are going on our first elk hunt this fall. We had one set up 3 years ago that wound up getting cancelled, so here we go for our second attempt. My problem is deciding which rifle to take and what to load it with. I have a plethora of rifles that are chambered in what suitable cartridges (according to my campfire research) but now I am second guessing my choice.
As of right now, my choice is a pre-64 Model 70 30/06 loaded with 180 grain Sierra Gamekings. I know, the rifle is heavy by today’s standards, but I figured I should give it a shot while I’m still young and still have some piss and vinegar left in the tank.
After reading the 300WM v 338 Mag thread, I’m really starting to second guess my bullet choice. My hunting experience has been limited to whitetails and pigs on the high end of the size scale, so I have no experience shooting anything heavier than about 250-300 pounds. My general philosophy has been choose a “heavier” for caliber cup and core at moderate velocity, so up to around 2900 or so tops. I’m partial to SGKs and have been happy with this approach, BUT, how foes that translate to elk? Should I ditch the cup and cores altogether?
Interestingly, I had a bullet failure this year on a nice 9 point out of my 338 Fed. Bullet was a Hornady 200 grain SP. shot was through the ribs at 220 yards. The jacket departed on impact and the core was in the offside hide.
We’ll be hunting in SW Montana. Public land. bull elk. 3rd week of November. The rifles I would consider are;
30/06 pre-64 Mod 70
338 Fed Kim 84M
7mm/08 Kim 84M
Of these, the 7mm/o8 is the most pleasing to shoot for obvious reasons, but I can and do shoot all three of these rifles just fine, regularly. I guess what would help me is, if you were to choose either of these rifles, which one and what bullet? Real experience would be greatly appreciated.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Take the two you shoot the best. You don’t need a magnum to kill an elk.
My 06 has killed every elk I’ve ever shot, And most dead right there.
One only one ran a little bit because my poor shot placement on the shoulder due to the angle and didn’t hit vitals.
The 7-08 is also very capable and will serve you just fine and carry that since it’s the easiest to shoot for you. shot placement is the key. Just use appropriate bullet..
The 338 fed would work, and would probably be little thumper.
The more trigger time with your main rifle, the better you’ll be off
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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Joined: Aug 2017
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Your 06 with 180s will do just fine. Don't overthink it.
The cow is where you are, the bull is where you want to be.
No one gets something for nothing unless someone else got nothing for something.
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Other then the weight the .06 will do the job nicely. 3rd week of Nov. might have a lot of moisture. The wood stock would be a concern if it gets wet. That old wood might soak up some water and warp a little, causing some POI change. Confidences in the whole package is huge.
If you hunt with your kids. You should not have to hunt for your kids.
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You’ll be fine with the 30-06 and the 180 Gameking.
Inside 2600-2900 starting velocity cup and core bullets perform very well.
Where’s your trip?
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We’re going with a guide out of Stevensville, MT. Hunt area is in unit 270.
Any reservations on shooting through shoulders with the 180 gameking?
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Any reservations on shooting through shoulders with the 180 gameking?
Yes - you’ll probably tear up a lot of meat in the process - punch the vitals and be done with it. It’s really a distance and energy question if you want shoulder penetration - but having hammered a shoulder to stop an elk, I would probably have been better off staying in heart lung area. I know I would have saved more meat...
Last edited by AH64guy; 06/21/20.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I've killed a bunch of them with a 270 and 150 gr Speer Hot Cores. Your '06 and Gamekings will work nicely. The 7mm Mag will shoot a little flatter but won't give you much advantage over the '06. If you want to use a magnum, that's your choice but it's not needed.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Any reservations on shooting through shoulders with the 180 gameking?
I would have no doubts it would get the killing job done. As AH noted shoulder shots damage good meat. I purposefully avoid shoulder shots if possible.
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You’ll be fine with the 30-06 and the 180 Gameking.
Inside 2600-2900 starting velocity cup and core bullets perform very well.
Where’s your trip? I’m with Joel, while I’m not a huge Sierra fan, that won’t hold you back on any elk. If you have confidence in the rifle to shoot out to 400 or so I’d not worry a bit about it. At 30-06 speeds you’re unlikely to tear that Bullet up.
Semper Fi
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Rifles matter more than anything else in the discussion here and you’ve got two kimbers. If either is stainless and synthetic, go with that one.
Last edited by exbiologist; 06/21/20.
"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter
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Any reservations on shooting through shoulders with the 180 gameking?
Yes - you’ll probably tear up a lot of meat in the process - punch the vitals and be done with it. It’s really a distance and energy question if you want shoulder penetration - but having hammered a shoulder to stop an elk, I would probably have been better off staying in heart lung area. I know I would have saved more meat... This. Gamekings tear meat up if impact velocity is high. From your 30-06, at modest impacy velocity you may or may not be fine if you hit solid shoulder bone. Put it tight behind the shoulder and that combo will be perfectly adequate. Put it on the shoulder and you may have a rodeo, depending. You're pretty much guaranteed to have some nasty, tore up meat though.
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Bigger question is how are your hunting boots and how is the glass on those rifles. These are things you don't skimp on hunting the west. Great broken in footwear is essential as is the best glass you can afford. I grew up back east so I speak from experience.
Experience is what you get, when you don't get what you want!
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Take the .06, but stuff it with 180gr Partitions and H4350 powder. A Game King at 30 yards out of an .06,might not give you the desired results/. As for the pre 64 being a might heavier, I am 76 and I still tote mine around at 10,000-11,000 feet. Surely a young marine won't have of much problem.
When you get down to the serious stuff, it doesn't make much difference what the head stamp on the cartridge is as long as you can hit what you aim at and select the appropriate bullet. Elk are not hard to kill.Those that claim they can soak up a lot of lead, more than liklely, are putting the lead in the wrong place.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Great input so far, I'd take the old model 70, you have time to find a different load if you wish, if it were me I'd give some TTSX's a try either 168 or 150's heck, at the worst think of the weight you save!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Take the .06, but stuff it with 180gr Partitions and H4350 powder. A Game King at 30 yards out of an .06,might not give you the desired results/. As for the pre 64 being a might heavier, I am 76 and I still tote mine around at 10,000-11,000 feet. Surely a young marine won't have of much problem.
When you get down to the serious stuff, it doesn't make much difference what the head stamp on the cartridge is as long as you can hit what you aim at and select the appropriate bullet. Elk are not hard to kill.Those that claim they can soak up a lot of lead, more than liklely, are putting the lead in the wrong place. That's most of it right there.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Any of your rifles will do the trick, I like the '06 or '08. I always wanted to use an 08 on elk. I have only killed two elk beyond 200 yards. Most all my shots were close in the woods, base of the skull with my 30/30, but I was a young airborne ranger then! As mentioned your footgear, your physical shape and your marksmanship skills need to be honed. The guide can only do so much, most of it is up to you. Elk are where you find em, hence the guide!
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saddlesore has already covered it for me. Only I used 4831. """Take the .06, but stuff it with 180gr Partitions and H4350 powder. A Game King at 30 yards out of an .06,might not give you the desired results/. As for the pre 64 being a might heavier, I am 76 and I still tote mine around at 10,000-11,000 feet.""
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Quite often when an animal is shot, it almost immediately goes into shock. That happens when the blood pressure plummets rapidly. If they go into shock, they will often just stand there while you keep shooting. Quite often, they're dead on their feet and the brain has mostly quit functioning. I once shot a bull 4 times, all 4 in a 3 or 4" circle in the center of the lungs. It just stood there then slowly collapsed. Each shot was a sure killer. The lungs were jello and the far shoulder was broken yet it just stood there as it bled out inside. I think this happens more often than what is known and it's often blamed on the bullet. In fact, the bullet worked perfectly but the elk just took a little longer to go down.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Good morning, y’all. I’ve got a pretty basic question that could probably be answered with a little searching on my part, but where is the fun in that?
Me and a couple of my Marine buddies are going on our first elk hunt this fall. We had one set up 3 years ago that wound up getting cancelled, so here we go for our second attempt. My problem is deciding which rifle to take and what to load it with. I have a plethora of rifles that are chambered in what suitable cartridges (according to my campfire research) but now I am second guessing my choice.
As of right now, my choice is a pre-64 Model 70 30/06 loaded with 180 grain Sierra Gamekings. I know, the rifle is heavy by today’s standards, but I figured I should give it a shot while I’m still young and still have some piss and vinegar left in the tank.
After reading the 300WM v 338 Mag thread, I’m really starting to second guess my bullet choice. My hunting experience has been limited to whitetails and pigs on the high end of the size scale, so I have no experience shooting anything heavier than about 250-300 pounds. My general philosophy has been choose a “heavier” for caliber cup and core at moderate velocity, so up to around 2900 or so tops. I’m partial to SGKs and have been happy with this approach, BUT, how foes that translate to elk? Should I ditch the cup and cores altogether?
Interestingly, I had a bullet failure this year on a nice 9 point out of my 338 Fed. Bullet was a Hornady 200 grain SP. shot was through the ribs at 220 yards. The jacket departed on impact and the core was in the offside hide.
We’ll be hunting in SW Montana. Public land. bull elk. 3rd week of November. The rifles I would consider are;k
30/06 pre-64 Mod 70
338 Fed Kim 84M
7mm/08 Kim 84M
Of these, the 7mm/o8 is the most pleasing to shoot for obvious reasons, but I can and do shoot all three of these rifles just fine, regularly. I guess what would help me is, if you were to choose either of these rifles, which one and what bullet? Real experience would be greatly appreciated. I've never been elk hunting so I'm definitely not your expert. But I'm 72 years old and age not withstanding, if in your position I would take that Pre-64 .30-06 and not look back. I think I might change from that SGK and go for a Nosler Partition in 180 grains. Don't get me wrong, I'm a SGK man from hell, but for Deer. What I've read on here, the Nosler Partition is one of the best elk bullets around and from what I hear here I would definitely use it no matter the cartridge choice. That's what I personally would use. In fact, my favorite cartridge for hunting is the .270 Win. and If I had the opportunity to go elk hunting I would probably use a .270 with a 150 Nosler Partition in a heart beat. But that is mostly because I've used one for 54 years and have a degree of confidence in it. However, for animals like elk it might be a toss up between the .270 and .30-06 as to which rifle I'd take. But which ever I took would be stoked with a load consisting of Nosler Partitions.
Last edited by Filaman; 06/22/20.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
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