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Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: dale06] #15002363 06/27/20
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hanco Offline
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Originally Posted by dale06
I’ve used numerous Rem 700s, 1100s and some 870s. They all performed exceptionally well for me.



I’ve had many 700’s, 1100’s, all are great. I hope they get their program together.

BP-B2

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: Sycamore] #15002373 06/27/20
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RemModel8 Offline
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Originally Posted by Sycamore
Originally Posted by RemModel8
Originally Posted by Sycamore
Originally Posted by Oakster
Originally Posted by JamesJr
Two things..........how does the Navajo nation get this kind of money, and secondly, I guess this will put a new spin on the old saying about selling guns to the Injuns.



They have good money. They bought a few bankrupt coal mines in Wyoming last year too. That cost millions, in the double digits just for the assets, the operation is very pricy.


Probably just as smart a move, buy something that went bankrupt in an industry that is declining

I bet all you money is in Vagisil.


Beavis? Or Butthead? you can change your username, but you can't quit acting like the [bleep] you are.

You out yourself everytime. Interesting psychology, or sad life choices, you keep coming back here where people have run you off many times.

Proverbs 26:11




Wolves don't care about the opinions of sheep. And a liberal ass sheep you are.

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: gahuntertom] #15002591 06/27/20
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I knew things were going downhill when they started promoting DPMS over Bushmaster. When they were both independent, Bushmaster always had a better reputation. Back in the early/mid 90s, Bushmaster had a better reputation than Colt.

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: gahuntertom] #15002617 06/27/20
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Blackheart Offline
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I wouldn't miss them if they were gone. Nothing much left in my abode that says Remington on it. They've made a lot of junk over the years and I don't keep junk around. They ruined Marlin and that's too bad.

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: cumminscowboy] #15002643 06/27/20
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Originally Posted by cumminscowboy
Originally Posted by fburgtx
“Let’s shut down DPMS and Bushmaster in the middle of a gun rush/election year!!”

“Let’s take a profitable company (Marlin), shut down the factory, and then spend 10 years learning how to make their product correctly!”

Not to mention when they WERE making money, Freedom Group was saddling them with TONS of debt.

.


The reason for all the debt was the investment group that bought the company used the debt to pay themselves back for buying the company. Once they paid themselves back. They then began to vampire the company. Keep all the cash they could. Ie not pay suppliers and creditors. Basically go bankrupt on purpose. Then wipe the debt. Vampire again. Ya know rinse and repeat. Then bankrupt again. Now they are selling what’s left. If you knew banks that would do that you’d have done the same thing.

I wonder if this was the bass pro tactic for the cabelas takeover. I will never know how they convince banks to loan them money like this


Yep. I guess the question is, “How do these guys continue to get away with this??”.

You and I couldn’t get $1mil to buy a house (worth $100k), and use the other $900k on cars and fun. How does a bank/etc loan this kind of money, KNOWING there isn’t enough collateral to cover it (due diligence reviewing a company’s books would tell you that there are already several other creditors standing in line ahead of you with dibs on the collateral).

Somewhere, “fraud” would have to come into play...

IC-A

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: JamesJr] #15002647 06/27/20
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Originally Posted by JamesJr
Two things..........how does the Navajo nation get this kind of money, and secondly, I guess this will put a new spin on the old saying about selling guns to the Injuns.

Coal, natural gas, gold, silver, water, and rubber tomahawks😁


the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: MontanaMarine] #15004013 06/27/20
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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
These are boom times for gun makers.

Remington must be doing something very wrong.


I think its probably more about bankruptcy's ability to wipe out lawsuit claims than it is about ,actual business conditions

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: RemModel8] #15004221 06/27/20
Joined: Dec 2003
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Sycamore Offline
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Originally Posted by RemModel8
Originally Posted by Sycamore
Originally Posted by RemModel8
Originally Posted by Sycamore
Originally Posted by Oakster
Originally Posted by JamesJr
Two things..........how does the Navajo nation get this kind of money, and secondly, I guess this will put a new spin on the old saying about selling guns to the Injuns.



They have good money. They bought a few bankrupt coal mines in Wyoming last year too. That cost millions, in the double digits just for the assets, the operation is very pricy.


Probably just as smart a move, buy something that went bankrupt in an industry that is declining

I bet all you money is in Vagisil.


Beavis? Or Butthead? you can change your username, but you can't quit acting like the [bleep] you are.

You out yourself everytime. Interesting psychology, or sad life choices, you keep coming back here where people have run you off many times.

Proverbs 26:11




Wolves don't care about the opinions of sheep. And a liberal ass sheep you are.


the mighty wolf speaks, but not from Loretta Lynn's diner parking lot.


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: JamesJr] #15004250 06/27/20
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 83,659
deflave Online Content
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Originally Posted by JamesJr
Two things..........how does the Navajo nation get this kind of money, and secondly, I guess this will put a new spin on the old saying about selling guns to the Injuns.


This is what happens when you never leave Papa and Mi Ma’s farm.


Originally Posted by jaguartx
Keep sucking bleck ass with Travis
Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: renegade50] #15004264 06/27/20
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 83,659
deflave Online Content
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Originally Posted by renegade50
Originally Posted by PeeDeeRiver
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by PeeDeeRiver
They haven't innovated in years.


[Linked Image from discreetarmsdealer.com]



Copying another company's product isn't innovation. Smart, but not innovative.

The idea is as old as metal and wood saw blades.


Hmmmm....


Originally Posted by jaguartx
Keep sucking bleck ass with Travis
IC-B

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: gahuntertom] #15004304 06/27/20
Joined: Mar 2002
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I don't think you can blame the "vulture capitalists." Remington has made dumb decisions for 50 years, when the "gun guys" were running it.

When I was young, the only decent rifle manufacturers (except for lever actions) were Remington and Winchester. The only decent handgun manufacturers were Colt and Smith & Wesson. Now all four have been eclipsed by new upstart companies that were smarter.

The last intelligent thing Remington did was to use modern machining and parts commonality to make their products cost less. That led to the 721/722/700 rifles and the 870. Winchester--in their great stupidity--countered with the post-64 Model 70 without asking any users what they thought of it. Exit Winchester.

And then Remington. Their chief innovations were the ugly Model 600 in oddball calibers nobody wanted and gravelly Model 710. they stupidly let their .260 be stolen by Creedmoor. And after inventing the low-recoil gas operated shotgun, they let every other manufacturer in the world steal their market.

There is a misunderstanding about how private equity works. Nobody tries to bankrupt a company they buy. There's no percentage in that. Instead--by way of example--suppose they want to buy a $100 million company. They borrow 80% based on their reputation in past deals. They pay that off in five years, out of the company's profits (note I said profits) and then sell it. Guess what? They wrote a check for $20 million and pocketed $100 million. 500%.

It gets better.

If they can make the $100 million company grow, say, to be worth $200 million, now they've earned 1000%.

All that's easier said than done, and there are some other wrinkles like carried interest and management fees, but in general private equity is a better investment than stocks and bonds. You have to hedge your bets and have more than one company.

In the case of Remington, I don't know what went wrong after Cerberus bought them.


"If my friend Donald Trump ever decided to sacrifice his billionaire lifestyle to become President, he would be a force for ultimate justice that Democrats and Republicans alike would celebrate." John F. Kennedy, Jr. [George Magazine, June, 1999]
Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: Hancock27] #15004401 06/27/20
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Quak Offline
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Originally Posted by Hancock27




Or HS Precision for that matter. They have or had a govt sanctioned murderer as their spokeshole.


Stevelyn, Care to elaborate?[/quote]


He is speaking of the murdering scumbag Lon horiuchi who murdered an unarmed woman while she held a baby in front of her family. He was charged...but of course the charges didn’t stick.

He smoked a couple of innocents in Waco iirc as well

HS precision used him as a spokesperson. Minute of unarmed mother was their thought I suppose. Hope HS goes out of business...Lon will get his in hell


GOD Bless America
Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: deflave] #15004406 06/27/20
Joined: May 2016
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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by JamesJr
Two things..........how does the Navajo nation get this kind of money, and secondly, I guess this will put a new spin on the old saying about selling guns to the Injuns.


This is what happens when you never leave Papa and Mi Ma’s farm.


Haha!

This fuggin guy.......

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: gahuntertom] #15004451 06/27/20
Joined: Aug 2011
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Remington nearly ruined Marlin. They should have spun off Marlin long ago.


l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: Valsdad] #15004574 06/28/20
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They screwed up big time with their new pistol.



[Linked Image from ]
Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: IndyCA35] #15004575 06/28/20
Joined: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
I don't think you can blame the "vulture capitalists." Remington has made dumb decisions for 50 years, when the "gun guys" were running it.

When I was young, the only decent rifle manufacturers (except for lever actions) were Remington and Winchester. The only decent handgun manufacturers were Colt and Smith & Wesson. Now all four have been eclipsed by new upstart companies that were smarter.

The last intelligent thing Remington did was to use modern machining and parts commonality to make their products cost less. That led to the 721/722/700 rifles and the 870. Winchester--in their great stupidity--countered with the post-64 Model 70 without asking any users what they thought of it. Exit Winchester.

And then Remington. Their chief innovations were the ugly Model 600 in oddball calibers nobody wanted and gravelly Model 710. they stupidly let their .260 be stolen by Creedmoor. And after inventing the low-recoil gas operated shotgun, they let every other manufacturer in the world steal their market.

There is a misunderstanding about how private equity works. Nobody tries to bankrupt a company they buy. There's no percentage in that. Instead--by way of example--suppose they want to buy a $100 million company. They borrow 80% based on their reputation in past deals. They pay that off in five years, out of the company's profits (note I said profits) and then sell it. Guess what? They wrote a check for $20 million and pocketed $100 million. 500%.

It gets better.

If they can make the $100 million company grow, say, to be worth $200 million, now they've earned 1000%.

All that's easier said than done, and there are some other wrinkles like carried interest and management fees, but in general private equity is a better investment than stocks and bonds. You have to hedge your bets and have more than one company.

In the case of Remington, I don't know what went wrong after Cerberus bought them.



In the case of Remington, I don't know what went wrong after Cerberus bought them. Nuff said.

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: gahuntertom] #15004633 06/28/20
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As long as Barnes survived I dont care.... not a fan of any of the other house brands under the umbrella.

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: gahuntertom] #15004643 06/28/20
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bobski Offline
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going forward by marketing military style guns to a younger crowd that needed to kill zombies is what got them in trouble.
tried and true hunting and competition reasons are what people consider old fashioned.


Retired Military Aviation
Former Member, Navy Shooting Team
Distinguished Pistol Shot
NRA Certified Instructor/RSO
Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: gahuntertom] #15004728 06/28/20
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Remington has made the same mistakes GM made with cars. They think they have to cover all bases of firearms so they bought Marlin for lever actions, produced ARs, Produced 1911, produced countless bolt gun styles, produced Zastava 98 to corner a CRF action, produce over-under shotguns, produce a multitude of pump and autoloader shotguns, produce law enforcement and military grade weapons, produce ammunition and brass, carry a custom shop, etc. They need to reduce all their line and go back to a simple line of 700 turn bolt rifles and shotguns at a competitive price and concentrate on affordable offerings strictly geared to hunters.

Re: Remington in bankrup [Re: gahuntertom] #15005055 06/28/20
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A Remington 700 is too expensive. To compete with an off the shelf Tikka, the Remington will need the action trued, bolt face trued, chambered properly, barrel replaced and trigger replaced.

If you are happy with 3 shot 100 yard groups at 1.5 inches it will be a good hunter out to maybe 200 yards.

Sure , you can find one that is acceptably accurate but that is a crap shoot.

Successive owners have pulled the equity out of the brand.

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