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Nine years a Captive #15005074 06/28/20
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kaywoodie Offline OP
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Reading thru Hermann Lehmanns book (titled above) seeking out the usual historical tidbits. Ruffcutt and I were had just glanced upon the tortures and treatment of captives/prisoner.

Ran across a comment by Lehmann. He at the time was with a band of Apaches as they are the ones who first captured him. Their band was visited by a band of Comanches that had a white captive with them. About his age. Another child of German settlers to Texas name of Adolph Korn. He said they conversed in German so neither of their captors could understand them.

(While with the Apaches he mentions the on again and off again stints on one of the New Mexico reservations. And how he had to be hidden in the woods when the soldier came thru on an inspection.)

This encounter with Korn would have been circa 1870-71ish. So I took this to mean that by this time these two bands had learned enough English to be dangerous to them. I found that interesting.

Lehmann does describe that he witnessed the execution of white children captives who would not settle down and be quiet on the trail. Not pretty.

While on the subject of captives. Have also read the story of the Smith boys captured in Comal county. A good read but I certainly feel a bit more artistic license was used in this narrative. I also highly recommend Wilbargers monumental work “Indian Depredations in Texas”. While a bit dated now, it contains a weath of primary document gathered thru the interviews of surviving participants. As does Deshield’s The Border Wars of Texas"


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Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005090 06/28/20
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Only $2.99 on my Kindle. Been looking for more good books to read and this genre is right up my alley.

Thanks for the heads-up!

Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005095 06/28/20
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kaywoodie Offline OP
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Hey! You’re welcome Morewood!

Good reading!


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Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005101 06/28/20
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kaywoodie Offline OP
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The Boy Captives

By Clinton Smith

Is tbe other book I mentioned. It is still a good read.


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Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

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Hunting with wore out guns since before it was trendy!

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Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005112 06/28/20
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I've read of Lehman's captivity in On the Open Range by J. Frank Dobie. My copy is durned near wore out as my Grandma from Dallas gave it to me when I was a kid. IIRC, his parting with the Comanch was after he was forced to kill their tribe's medicine man after he wouldn't leave him alone for some reason I've forgotten. Lehman took the evil native's Winchester and killed stuff with it until the ammo ran out and then hid it in a cave, IIRC.

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Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005124 06/28/20
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Time for me to reread both of those. I read some about the Parker Fort family and captives, I don't
remember which book it was right off, but it was alot of info.


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Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: poboy] #15005129 06/28/20
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Originally Posted by poboy
Time for me to reread both of those. I read some about the Parker Fort family and captives, I don't
remember which book it was right off, but it was alot of info.
On the Open Range also has the gist of the tale of Cynthia Anne Parker.

Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005132 06/28/20
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In light of your reading interests may I recommend "A Land So Strange" by Andres Resendez.
Quote
In 1528, a mission set out from Spain to colonize Florida. But the expedition went horribly wrong: Delayed by a hurricane, knocked off course by a colossal error of navigation, and ultimately doomed by a disastrous decision to separate the men from their ships, the mission quickly became a desperate journey of survival.

Of the 300 men who had embarked on the journey, only four survived - three Spaniards and an African slave. This tiny band endured a horrific march through Florida, a harrowing raft passage across the Louisiana coast, and years of enslavement in the American Southwest. They journeyed for almost 10 years in search of the Pacific Ocean that would guide them home, and they were forever changed by their experience. The men lived with a variety of nomadic Indians and learned several indigenous languages. They saw lands, peoples, plants, and animals that no outsider had ever seen before.

Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005136 06/28/20
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kaywoodie Offline OP
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J. Frank Dobie stated that Lehmann’s story was the definitive white captives story.

I think Quanah pretty much talked him into going back to his family in Gillespie Co.

Wasn’t the medicine man an Apache and his murder the reason he escaped to the Comanches???

I also believe Quanah was instrumental in seeing that Lehmann received a Comanche allotment (land) at Ft. Sill as he stated he was an official member of the tribe. Lehmann went back and lived there for a while.


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Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005137 06/28/20
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GregW Offline
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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Reading thru Hermann Lehmanns book (titled above) seeking out the usual historical tidbits. Ruffcutt and I were had just glanced upon the tortures and treatment of captives/prisoner.

Ran across a comment by Lehmann. He at the time was with a band of Apaches as they are the ones who first captured him. Their band was visited by a band of Comanches that had a white captive with them. About his age. Another child of German settlers to Texas name of Adolph Korn. He said they conversed in German so neither of their captors could understand them.

(While with the Apaches he mentions the on again and off again stints on one of the New Mexico reservations. And how he had to be hidden in the woods when the soldier came thru on an inspection.)

This encounter with Korn would have been circa 1870-71ish. So I took this to mean that by this time these two bands had learned enough English to be dangerous to them. I found that interesting.

Lehmann does describe that he witnessed the execution of white children captives who would not settle down and be quiet on the trail. Not pretty.

While on the subject of captives. Have also read the story of the Smith boys captured in Comal county. A good read but I certainly feel a bit more artistic license was used in this narrative. I also highly recommend Wilbargers monumental work “Indian Depredations in Texas”. While a bit dated now, it contains a weath of primary document gathered thru the interviews of surviving participants. As does Deshield’s The Border Wars of Texas"



The cave where he lived in Mason County I got to see a while back. Pretty cool stuff...


- Greg

Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: Morewood] #15005139 06/28/20
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kaywoodie Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Morewood
In light of your reading interests may I recommend "A Land So Strange" by Andres Resendez.
Quote
In 1528, a mission set out from Spain to colonize Florida. But the expedition went horribly wrong: Delayed by a hurricane, knocked off course by a colossal error of navigation, and ultimately doomed by a disastrous decision to separate the men from their ships, the mission quickly became a desperate journey of survival.

Of the 300 men who had embarked on the journey, only four survived - three Spaniards and an African slave. This tiny band endured a horrific march through Florida, a harrowing raft passage across the Louisiana coast, and years of enslavement in the American Southwest. They journeyed for almost 10 years in search of the Pacific Ocean that would guide them home, and they were forever changed by their experience. The men lived with a variety of nomadic Indians and learned several indigenous languages. They saw lands, peoples, plants, and animals that no outsider had ever seen before.



Cabesa de Vaca’s story!! Have read his account!! Another classic!!!

Thanks!!!


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Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

Jagdverein der lustigen Hüte

Hunting with wore out guns since before it was trendy!

If it isn’t baroque, don’t fix it
Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: GregW] #15005152 06/28/20
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kaywoodie Offline OP
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Originally Posted by GregW
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Reading thru Hermann Lehmanns book (titled above) seeking out the usual historical tidbits. Ruffcutt and I were had just glanced upon the tortures and treatment of captives/prisoner.

Ran across a comment by Lehmann. He at the time was with a band of Apaches as they are the ones who first captured him. Their band was visited by a band of Comanches that had a white captive with them. About his age. Another child of German settlers to Texas name of Adolph Korn. He said they conversed in German so neither of their captors could understand them.

(While with the Apaches he mentions the on again and off again stints on one of the New Mexico reservations. And how he had to be hidden in the woods when the soldier came thru on an inspection.)

This encounter with Korn would have been circa 1870-71ish. So I took this to mean that by this time these two bands had learned enough English to be dangerous to them. I found that interesting.

Lehmann does describe that he witnessed the execution of white children captives who would not settle down and be quiet on the trail. Not pretty.

While on the subject of captives. Have also read the story of the Smith boys captured in Comal county. A good read but I certainly feel a bit more artistic license was used in this narrative. I also highly recommend Wilbargers monumental work “Indian Depredations in Texas”. While a bit dated now, it contains a weath of primary document gathered thru the interviews of surviving participants. As does Deshield’s The Border Wars of Texas"



The cave where he lived in Mason County I got to see a while back. Pretty cool stuff...


Mason is an awesome county!!! I love the place as well as Menard county.

Our old TxDOT maintenance supvr. in Mason, Wibby Shearer had all kinds of stuff he had dug up being raised there. He had oodles of neat stuff he dug up at old Fort Mason. He’s long passed now and best I know the historical society there now has his collection. They have a nice museum on the square.

Last edited by kaywoodie; 06/28/20.

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Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

Jagdverein der lustigen Hüte

Hunting with wore out guns since before it was trendy!

If it isn’t baroque, don’t fix it
Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005161 06/28/20
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GregW Offline
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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by GregW
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Reading thru Hermann Lehmanns book (titled above) seeking out the usual historical tidbits. Ruffcutt and I were had just glanced upon the tortures and treatment of captives/prisoner.

Ran across a comment by Lehmann. He at the time was with a band of Apaches as they are the ones who first captured him. Their band was visited by a band of Comanches that had a white captive with them. About his age. Another child of German settlers to Texas name of Adolph Korn. He said they conversed in German so neither of their captors could understand them.

(While with the Apaches he mentions the on again and off again stints on one of the New Mexico reservations. And how he had to be hidden in the woods when the soldier came thru on an inspection.)

This encounter with Korn would have been circa 1870-71ish. So I took this to mean that by this time these two bands had learned enough English to be dangerous to them. I found that interesting.

Lehmann does describe that he witnessed the execution of white children captives who would not settle down and be quiet on the trail. Not pretty.

While on the subject of captives. Have also read the story of the Smith boys captured in Comal county. A good read but I certainly feel a bit more artistic license was used in this narrative. I also highly recommend Wilbargers monumental work “Indian Depredations in Texas”. While a bit dated now, it contains a weath of primary document gathered thru the interviews of surviving participants. As does Deshield’s The Border Wars of Texas"



The cave where he lived in Mason County I got to see a while back. Pretty cool stuff...


Mason is an awesome county!!! I love the place as well as Menard county.

Our old TxDOT maintenance supvr. in Mason, Wibby Shearer had all kinds of stuff he had dug up being raised there. He had oodles of neat stuff he dug up at old Fort Mason. He’s long passed now and best I know the historical society there now has his collection. They have a nice museum on the square.


The TxDOT yard a few miles east of Mason on the Llano Highway, my parents live about 3 miles NE of....


- Greg

Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005166 06/28/20
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Flagging for a return so I can find the names later.

Thx
K


-OMotS



"If memory serves fails me..."
Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005167 06/28/20
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Valsdad Offline
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Bob,

I may have to look that one up. Sounds like a cool read.

Way before that kind of history, but still an interesting take on captivity, if you ever get a chance to read Col Ethan Allen's Narrative of his captivity you might enjoy it.

I was particularly intrigued by parts where he discussed the poor treatment of an Officer by the Brits. I mean, after all, he was no common soldier and should not have been treated as such, right.

I'd send you my very old copy, perhaps early 1800's, but I'd not trust it to the USPS..............ever!


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In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
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Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005169 06/28/20
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Yep. Good one. I’ve bought it at least twice to pass it along.
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
The Boy Captives

By Clinton Smith

Is tbe other book I mentioned. It is still a good read.

Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005176 06/28/20
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EthanEdwards Offline
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Originally Posted by kaywoodie




Wasn’t the medicine man an Apache and his murder the reason he escaped to the Comanches???

Probably.

Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: kaywoodie] #15005177 06/28/20
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EthanEdwards Offline
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I'd have to read it again to know for sure, but you're probably right Bob.

Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: EthanEdwards] #15005191 06/28/20
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kaywoodie Offline OP
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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
I'd have to read it again to know for sure, but you're probably right Bob.


I haven’t got quite that far yet in this narritive. So I’m guessing from the other sources Ive read on subject myself.


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Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

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Hunting with wore out guns since before it was trendy!

If it isn’t baroque, don’t fix it
Re: Nine years a Captive [Re: GregW] #15005193 06/28/20
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Originally Posted by GregW
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by GregW
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Reading thru Hermann Lehmanns book (titled above) seeking out the usual historical tidbits. Ruffcutt and I were had just glanced upon the tortures and treatment of captives/prisoner.

Ran across a comment by Lehmann. He at the time was with a band of Apaches as they are the ones who first captured him. Their band was visited by a band of Comanches that had a white captive with them. About his age. Another child of German settlers to Texas name of Adolph Korn. He said they conversed in German so neither of their captors could understand them.

(While with the Apaches he mentions the on again and off again stints on one of the New Mexico reservations. And how he had to be hidden in the woods when the soldier came thru on an inspection.)

This encounter with Korn would have been circa 1870-71ish. So I took this to mean that by this time these two bands had learned enough English to be dangerous to them. I found that interesting.

Lehmann does describe that he witnessed the execution of white children captives who would not settle down and be quiet on the trail. Not pretty.

While on the subject of captives. Have also read the story of the Smith boys captured in Comal county. A good read but I certainly feel a bit more artistic license was used in this narrative. I also highly recommend Wilbargers monumental work “Indian Depredations in Texas”. While a bit dated now, it contains a weath of primary document gathered thru the interviews of surviving participants. As does Deshield’s The Border Wars of Texas"



The cave where he lived in Mason County I got to see a while back. Pretty cool stuff...


Mason is an awesome county!!! I love the place as well as Menard county.

Our old TxDOT maintenance supvr. in Mason, Wibby Shearer had all kinds of stuff he had dug up being raised there. He had oodles of neat stuff he dug up at old Fort Mason. He’s long passed now and best I know the historical society there now has his collection. They have a nice museum on the square.


The TxDOT yard a few miles east of Mason on the Llano Highway, my parents live about 3 miles NE of....

Going back toward the Fly Gap? All good country!!


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Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

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Hunting with wore out guns since before it was trendy!

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