Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Help me decide my groundhog gun!

So I admit, I overthink things. I have been trying to figure out what groundhog gun to get. I am in central Pa, so long shots (400+) are definately an option. I want quiet, fast enough to shoot at least 350 yards, but low enough recoil to spot my shots. A silencer may be an option. I am thinking suppressed 204 ruger, maybe 17 hornet,... I also considered a 20 vartarg, but seems like limited budget options. I can prob swing 800 right now without the glass. So seems like if I want a silencer it leaves me with very little for the rifle. I want something that won't hurt your ears if you take a quick shot without taking time to put in your earplugs. I know, bad idea but sometimes you don't have time. I wish the 17 fireballs were not so expensive, or wish there was an easy and economical way to build one...

.204

Watch for a Remington 700 or Model 7 in a .17 Remington or .17 Fireball to come up for sale. They actually come up quite often and are usually reasonably priced- I've seen them in the $500-$700 range several times... or you could always pick up a Remington ADL or Ruger in .223 ... should easily fit into your budget if you are patient on shopping, but by time you add in threading the muzzle for suppressor and the cost of the suppressor and tax stamp, you're crowding yourself pretty tight with your budget requirements.... and you haven' t included the cost of a scope yet...

Bob

Went to an auction this week that had a 17 rem, believe it went for 1300

When I shot chucks in Pa. and West Va.. I used rifles from the .22. Lr up to my .300... My favorite was a heavy barreled 700 in .22-250.. Or a good Swift!!

Another vote for .204

For what you described, there are multiple options, but if it were me, 204 Ruger.

It must not get windy in PA. Oh the life it must be...

^^^^^ This would be my choice too ^^^^^

I have a Ruger M77 Mk II VT .204 Ruger on consignment sale at my LGS. Very low shot count, in excellent condition. PM if interested, I can get you in touch with them.

30 years ago lived in NE PA, about 15 miles south of Jim Borden's shop. One of the guys in our fire company had Jim build him a custom .300 Win Mag for ground hogs.

A

And again........ .204

As Poobs said. Either the 204 or a .233 and stuff it with 55 grain NBTs at about 3200

204 with a 39 grain Blitzking.

I would not overlook the mild manners and pinpoint accuracy of the 222 Rem on varmints. Easy on bores, hard on groundhogs.

I have shot alot of prairie dogs, way over 350yds with a .204 with satisfaction. However, I felt the 204 on coyotes was a bit "light in the britches". I've shot Rock Chucks ( Marmots) out to 250 very readily. But 400yds is a ways out there and for big groundhogs ( I've killed some big marmots) I'm thinking you will wound alot with a fringe hit from the 204. If you want to reach way on out there, I suggest a fast twist 22-250 and the excellent 68gr Hornady OTM on up. A 22-250 Ackley will be a sweety, or a heavy 220 Swift, or even 6mm Remington. Have fun though!

Things must be different where you are than they are here in NY where I shoot chucks. I often use a .22-250 or .243 with my brother as spotter and vice versa. Even with those, very often you can't see the bullet strike. Sometimes if the ground is extraordinarily dry and the hay has just been mowed you can but if the grass is a little longer and the ground a little damp not too often.

I posted this on the other thread - just my opinion and experience.


I am partial to the 223 Rem., I have had three 204's and never found that it did anything special over the 223.
I have never shot a groundhog but I have sent a lot of their Western cousins rockchucks to the big pasture in the sky. using the 223 with 40 gr Nosler ballistic tips.

The 204 with 40 gr bullets @ 3750 fps and the 223 @ 3750 fps will have the same recoil since they both use virtually the same amount of powder to achieve 3750 fps, any difference in recoil between the two is a figment of imagination.Either cartridge with 40 gr bullets will allow you to see hits from 100 yds and out, if you aren't seeing hits using either of these then your gun handling technique needs work.

204 -
Using a one inch high zero @ 200 yards the 204 with 40 gr bullets will be +0.3 inch @ 200 yds, minus 4.7 @ 300 yds, minus 15.3 @ 400 yds.
204 with 40 gr bullets 10 mph wind drift @ 100 yds 1.0 inch, 200 yds will be 4.2 inches, @ 300 yds 10.1 inches, 400 yds will be19.3 inches.
Energy @ 100 yds - 965.7 ft bs, 200 yds 734.2 ft lbs, 300 yds 550.9 ft lbs, 400 yds 405.6 ft lbs.

223 -
Using a one inch high zero @ 200 yds the 223 with 40 gr bullets will be + 0.2 inch, minus 5.0 inch @ 300 yds, minus 16.3 inch @ 400 yds.
223 with 40 gr bullets 10 mph crosswind @ 100 yds will be 1.1 inch drift, @ 200 yds 4.6 inch drift, @ 300 yds 11.1 inch drift, @ 400yds 21.4 inch drift.
Energy@ 100 yds - 945.1 ft lbs, 200 yds 701.6 ft lbs, 300 yds 512,4 ft lbs, 400 yds 365.6 ft lbs

As you can see their is not enough difference to sneeze at between them as far as drop, drift and energy.

The 223 has a wider variety of bullets, a wider selection and more availability of brass but both cartridges will do the job, the 204 will have less barrel life if that is a concern since you are burning the same amount of powder through a smaller hole, although I doubt that will be a factor in shooting groundhogs unlilke where it comes into play when doing high volume shooting like PD's and ground squirrels.

Find a rifle that suits you in either chambering and go forth and slay critters.

drover

By spot your shots are you talking see your bullet hit the chuck or spot your misses so you can correct your hold ?

6BR without a doubt

204 ruger

Agree ...I love the deuce for just about anything, but at the OPs expected ranges out to 350 yards...the .204 is easy peasy....

204 Ruger - Get one of the Walmart 700 ADL’s in 223 that are on clearance for $290, and change the barrel out to 204 Ruger... you can change the stock & bottom metal out later.

Yup ..... I'd love to have an older M700 Varmint in 222 with a decent gloss scope for such shooting. Classic 70s varmint rig.

My varmint rifles are 222 and 6BR.
Couldn't wish for more.

See the bullet hit the chuck....maybe correct hold, but I know in a hayfield or wet dirt I really qont be able to spot where I hit and correct the hold.

That's what I was getting at in my first post. Very often you won't be able to spot your misses, even with much larger bullets than .17's or .204's. You can usually tell you hit them with most anything by the sound of the impact if nothing else, not always but usually. Do you still have a lot of chucks down there in central Pa. ? Lot's of folks say they are gone from NY but that isn't true. Some areas are still loaded with them.

When I got into groundhog hunting, I got a heavy barrel .222. It took less powder than a 22-250. I had a 6mm Remington if I needed more range. This year, I used a .223. I still have two deuces. Good luck! There is little more fun than shooting ground hogs!

Buy a throwaway like an RAR, burn it up, then trade for another one. Cheaper than re-barreling.

My son and his came up yesterday and whacked a couple just over the border with my Hawkeye .223.

There are still some around....still see a fair amount hit on the road etc.

The 20 Vartarg may be your huckleberry, but I don't think you could get one for $800. I lucked into a used Cooper 38 in 20 Vartarg, but I have not had time to shoot it, yet. I plan to post something later when I finally get around to doing it.

You never mentioned whether you plan to reload or shoot factory ammo. If you plan to reload, I think you could make the 223 Remington and 204 Ruger behave ballistically very similar to a 20 Vartarg. I wish I had some empirical data for you on the 20 Vartarg. Like you I have been looking for that perfect blend of recoil and performance.

That would be the logical thing to do but it would not be the 'Campfire way.

The 'Campfire way is to buy a $400 Walmart Rem 700, have it rebarreled for $600, put it into a McMillan stock for $600, put a Jewell trigger on it for $250. Now for only somewhere around $1850 you have a rifle that MAY shoot 1/2 " groups rather than 1-1/4" groups. Then post pictures of the rifle and target extolling how good the $400 Walmart Rem shoots with only some minor modifications.

You would then own an $1800 Rem 700 that you could sell for $800-$900, if you are lucky enough to find the right buyer. That's the 'Campfire way.

drover

Over the years I've had a bunch of chuck rifles and I've killed thousands of chucks with them. My first chuck rifle was a 5mm Remington Magnum Rimfire. My first center fire chuck rifle was a .222. After that there have been several more in 17 HMR., .22 Mag., .22 hornet, .222, .223, .22-250 and .243.. The most fun and most used were always the .222's and .223's. Anything bigger is getting a bit too noisy for consistent use in more settled farmlands and their extra range is rarely needed or even usable around here due to the rolling terrain. Right now I have 4 chuck rifles. If I were only going to have one it would definitely be a .223 with a .222 a close second choice.

A 22RF will send a bullet over 350yds! It say's on the box dangerous to 1 mile, some say 1 1/4mi!

try the 25-06

I have a pre64 220 Swift for that purpose, but because of development places to hunt for groundhogs are becoming increasingly harder to find here in PA. Another issue is coyotes, the farmer whose land I hunt for bucks in Chenango County, NY told me that he very seldom sees a woodchuck on his 400 acres anymore, coyotes have essentially cleaned them out.

.222 Rem would be a good choice IMO.

Nope, not many chucks out in fields in Chenango County. There are still lots in some places not far from Chenango County though. Heck there are even some spots in Chenango where there are still a few chucks out in the hay fields. Pay attention along route 12 between Greene and Oxford late in the afternoon and you'll see a few. I think your farmer is wrong about the coyotes being the main culprit though, as the farms I kill dozens of chucks on every year have plenty of yotes around too.

I hunted with several calibers in the day. The most game was taken with one of two guns. One was a flat bolt Ruger 77 with 12x Leupold scope in 220 Swift. The other rifle was a Remington 700 Varmint Special with 10x Unertl Scope in .222 Remington. No problem with either. If asked, will share may experience.

I hunted with several calibers in the day. The most game was taken with one of two guns. One was a flat bolt Ruger 77 with 12x Leupold scope in 220 Swift. The other rifle was a Remington 700 Varmint Special with 10x Unertl Scope in .222 Remington. No problem with either. If asked, will share may experience.

Well, that's one version of the story. Another is that you can buy the RAR, an Axis, TC Whatzit, or this year's Mossbug, screw on a blister-pack 2-24X scope, and it'll make those 1/2" clusters with whatever ammo is on clearance at Academy.

Actually, it seems that the Bic rifles shoot pretty darn good most of the time, even though I haven't really learned to embrace the concept yet, maybe because I don't own a truck a barn, or a tractor. Had a good friend once who had all three, but he preferred to toss a pretty nice M70 XTR .22/250 on the dash of his old Oldsmobile, ready for action.

I used to woodchuck hunt pretty seriously in central NY 20-30 years ago with my old college roommate. We went throught the "what is the best woodchuck cartridge" debate, and gun upgrades. He started with a Savage 340 222 Rem, and ended up with a 22-250 AI (and a 224 Clark) and a 218 Bee (Kimber 82). I started with a Savage 112 JRS 222 Rem, and eventually got a Rem 22-250 VS for 350-400+ shots. Never got around to rebarreling it to a 1-9" as our long range woodchuch hunting was winding down. My top gun now is a Sako A1 varmint in 222 Rem with 8x Leupold.

Here are my thoughts if I ever started over again "knowing now, what I didn't know then" basis.

Wind drift is a BIGGER factor than pure accuracy for 400 yard shots. Most guns shoot well enough for woodchuck hunting. Just about all our guns could get a load of moa or better. Factory barrels are pretty accurate, and good for 300++ yard chucks. Shooting in even 10 mph cross breeze will cause a miss if you don't pay attention to conditions.

Accurate range estimation is key for long distance shooting. The better the range estimation/determination, the less critical the cartridge selection is for "pure high MV." Get a laser range finder.

A scope with excellent resolution is more important than pure magnification. Too much magnification is an issue, and 10-12x is the upper end. I like 8x.

So put it together. With a laser range finder, you can pin point distance, and you don't need "super high velocity" cartridges. A 222 Rem, with a laser range finder ( and with practice out to any distance, such as 400 yards), works fine. You don't need a 220 swift or 224 Clark. The trouble with factory 222 Rem barrels is the twist of 1-14", which limits you to 50-52 grain bullets (SOMETIMES 55 grainers). That is not good for wind drift.

I would vote for a varmint weight bolt gun chambered in 223 Remington, with a 1-9" twist to handle 69 grain bullets (higher BC) for less wind drift at 400+ yards. A Rem 700, Savage, Tikka or Howa 1500 action would be fine. A Win 70 HV in 223 would very nice too.

Scope? Fixed 8x Leupold, or equivalent. I have a Lyman All American Permacenter 8x scope which has excellent resolution. I could see the wetness of a chuck's eye at 400 yards with it. I had it on my 22-250 to make many 400+ first shot woodchuck kills ( when wind wasn't a big factor). The best part about a scope WITHOUT TOO MUCH magnification is the ability to spot the shot through the scope ( feedback if you missed to make a correction). I sold the Rem 22-250 as it had a 1-14" twist. It was fast ( Mv 3500 fps+) , but 50 grain bullets got pushed by 8-10 mph wind. Wish it had a 1-9 twist, but I used 50 grain Sierra Blitz Kings for 0.6 moa loads. Sold it, due to wind drift issues. Didn't want to rebarrel it.

What to look for? A 223 rem , with varmint weight 1-9' twist barrel, laser range finder, 8 or 10x scope with good glass would take you to 450+ yards. You can get a McGowan custom barrel for about $350 ( chambered), to get an accurate rig with the barrel twist of your desire-maybe even 1-7" if you want to shoot 77 grainers to really address wind drift . My shooting buddy's Rem 700 22-250AI has a 1-7" twist Kreiger barrel on it. We call it "the wind cheater" as it slings 77 grain .224" bullets that seem to defy the wind to 500 yards. It is amazing.

Another excellent cartridge platform is either a 22 BR or 6 BR (both GREAT in the wind with proper bullets and twist).

Many choices, but really focus on wind drift ( faster rifling twist), range estimation ( laser range finder) - not just pure muzzle velocity, and "moderate scope magnification" (8x), and you will meet your woodchuck hunting needs to distances further than you listed in your post.

Would love to hear your experience!

204 with 40 grain Bergers

God Bless, Louis

+1 on the 25-06...

I live in central PA. It's my go-to groundhog rig. With 90 gr Sierra Blitzking over IMR4831, it'll group 5 rounds under an 1" at 200 yds. I've scored 500 yd kills every year since I had the gun.

I have a 22-250 that is quite reliable as well out to 400 yds. However, even with a 55 grain bullet, it's a little more susceptible to wind. My longest kill with it was 548 yds. But I get a more misses beyond 400.

Well, to me the ultimate ground hog gun is a 6 Ackley imp. 55BT4200-4300 FPS shoots incredibly flat and explodes varmints into many many small pieces! But you definitely won’t see your missed but definitely will see your hits! A heavy barrel 22-250 with 55 VMax or BT is a very fine chuck gun. I would guess ( I’ve not done it yet....) that you probably could see the misses with a suppressor. I don’t have a 204 but just took my 20 practical built by Mr Jim Borden out to Colorado for pdogs and it was simply awesome. That man KNOWS how to build a rifle! It certainly seemed to shoot through the wind better than the 223’s I took. Since I got back I’ve told a few of my buddies that the 204 Ruger should be their next varmint gun.... so if you can’t do the 6AI.... I’d recommend a 204. 39 BK still had enough in their tanks at 720 yards to toss pdogs off their mounds. But I also believe a 22-250 with 55’s would hit a big chuck harder.... your call. There aren’t any bad ones in what anyone listed. Now you’ve got me over thinking it!😂

Good luck and happy hoggin!
Ben

Heavy barreled Savage 22-250 in a laminated stock.


If that suited your requirements, I know where you could find one!

If you are deaf, its quiet.

And it's too heavy to kick.

The 6BR is not noisy and is very accurate. Mine has a 1 in 14" twist, and I wish it were faster. However, I have killed woodchucks out to 450 yards with it.

You guys are better shooters than I.


I struggled with a fast twist 22-250 beyond 350yds or so. 50gr NBTs. Between wind and crawl offs, it was tough. I expect a gun to be loud. When I'm in the groundhog fields, I bring ear protection. I don't care enough to kill a groundhog to blow my ears out. Done it once and learned that lesson.


A 22cal with a fast twist and heavier bullets could work better.

A 243, 257, 264 might be better. Depends what you really want. A gun capable of better results at longer ranges will still kill em dead at shorter ranges. A lighter caliber/smaller bullet will do great at shorter ranges and really limit things as range is extended.


Where I used to hunt, the 22-250 was rarely limiting and worked great. When I found some longer fields, I learned that she doesn't have much gas and the winds will take that little bullet and do some crazyness.

Remember that time in flight has an affect on wind drift. Less time in flight, less wind drift. And I find my 223 AI with 40 gr BT's to be pretty darned effective at 450 yards at around 3900 fps for the 223 Ai , along with my 22-250 at 4200 for the 22-250 same bullets. My limiting factor these days is having enough scope power to see something that far away with my old eyes.... I find my 6.5 - 20 Leupold and Bushnell 4000 elite 6-24 are up to the task....

And one thing I found over the years. If you are shooting prone a lot, which we need to do here- a lot of shooting in a day can give me a pretty sore shoulder even with the 22-250 at the end of the day. Makes a second day not as enjoyable as I would hope a couple times. I find the 223AI has sufficiently reduced recoil to keep that from happening. Just my experience....

Bob

Another reason I sold my Rem 700 VS 22-250 (factory 1-14" twist barrel) was that it was " too easy" for 200 yards chuck shots, 300 yards were pretty much "automatic", and a bit lacking at 400+ yards Due to wind drift. Truth be told, there were more available shots 300 yards of less, than 350 yards of more. I didn't really NEED the 22-250. My hunting rule with it was: <200 yard shots were to be taken offhand to keep things interesting.

Sold my 22-250, and focused on using my Sako A1 222 Rem . A 300 yard shot with my 222 was satisfying. A fast twist heavy barrel 223 Rem (1-9" twist) would be ideal for my chuck hunting-which I don't do much of these days. With a laser range finder, and 69 grainers from a 223 Rem 1-8 to 9" twist barrel, you should reliably be able to reach out to 450++ yards, and be in good shape to buck the wind if you have accurate trajectory readings for your elevation come-ups.

My hunting buddy is using his Kimber model 82 single shot 218 Bee heavy barrel more than his 22-250 AI (1-7" twist) . He has made some 250 yard shots with it (218 Bee) using 40 grain ballistic tips. Pretty impressive. It wears a 6x Leupold.

I do most of my groundhog hunting with the .17 Fireball or .17 Hornet these days. The Hornet goes if I expect shots no longer than 250 yds. However growing up, and for years until the .17's came out, I shot hundreds of them with the .222 and some with the .223. If you want relatively quiet and low recoil, I'd go with the .222 with 40 gr - 50 gr bullets. If you reload, get a .223 and load to match .222 velocities.

Drover is spot on with all of this.

A .223 makes perfect sense. Components are plentiful as well as bullet selection.