Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Burris FFII VS Leupold Freedom

I 2nd this vote and also affirm the BP is terrific.

Swampokie,

Unlike many scopes made overseas for (not by) various companies. Fullfield IIs were originally manufactured in the U.S. When Burris decided to save customers money by making them in the Philippines, they provided the same tooling they used in the U.S., and trained the workers over there to use it. (The glass was already coming from Asia, as it does for Leupold) so there was no change in that.

When the switch was made, as I recall a little over a decade ago, I had several U.S.-made FFII's. I got a Philippine scope ASAP and compared them. There was NO difference in optics, adjustments, etc, and in fact the finish and smoothness of stuff like the turret-cap threads was superior on the Philppine scope.

Have been using the "foreign" FFIIs ever since with zero problems. In fact, the one FFII (out of more than a dozen) that I've owned that needed to be repaired was my LAST 3-9x40 made in the U.S.A. A couple years ago the adjustments quit working correctly. But I would say that's OK, partly because it had been on hell of lot of rifles, some pretty hard-recoiling, and partly because Burris fixed the scope and shipped it back quickly--far quicker than Leupold usually takes these days. (Yes, Burris has the same lifetime guarantee.)

I agree. Regarding most of the people to which you refer, it's like being a teenage boy. They just want to fit in. Smile and let them beat their chests. They feel better, impress no one, and the other fanboys think it's coooool.

I’m not blindly speaking or only being a homer for the leupold. I have many rifles as most of u do and leupold only top 1/3 of them. I needed a high magnification scope a couple years ago for a 7mag that I had acquired recently. My ffl was a big Burris fan and I had a Burris or two back in the old day so I found a great deal on a fullfield ll 4.5-14 and scooped it up on my ffls recommendation. The eye relief was the worst I’ve seen short of a Simmons Deerfield I once had on a 22 mag. Absolutely awful eye relief. Any thing beyond that I can’t say yes or no. The lifetime warranty was one of the reasons that I bought it and I do realize that is the same as the leupold. I traded it for a redfield REVOLUTION not revenge and it’s awesome eye relief and excellent tracking. I have never had a leupold that didn’t hold zero or give me good eye relief. Some of the old vari x compacts and smaller objective leupolds had lesser eye relief but nothing even close to the phillipino Burris. The redfield revenge phillipino had the same awful eye relief but it performed well in all other categories.

Years ago I bought a new Leupold VXI (which I think is comparable to their Freedom series today) and used it one season. It fogged up on me.
They make a big deal about non-fogging, so I sent it to them. After about two months they sent it back and said there was nothing
wrong with it and the fogging (are you ready for this) was "external fogging." Never heard of such. After the down pour ended that
fateful day, I could do nothing to wipe off the fog. It took 30 minutes for it to go away. After that, I lost faith in Leupold and
switched over to Weaver Classics V7 and V10, really great scopes. Unfortunately, Bushnell has now bought out Weaver and
are discontinuing them (really sad). Best scope I ever had though was a Colorado widefield (TV screen) Redfield. Hunted 20
years with it, in all kinds of weather--never fogged, always held zero, tough as a railroad spike. Only reason I sold it was because the
crosshairs were much too thin and hard for my aging eyes to center. This is why I got the Weavers, bolder crosshairs that I
can quickly slap on a deer's vitals.

I had 2 of those Redfield wide fields. One straight 6 power and one 3-9x whatever it was. One fogged up and the other lost zero permanently. It started shooting 5 inch groups at 100 yards. But they lasted me about 20 years each. I've never had a Leupold fog.

The Sun Don't Shine on the Same Dogs Ass Everyday ... I guess it's Burris' time in the sunshine!

g

I'm not a Leupold only fanboy. But, I have got to say this. No scope manufacturer offers the scarce combination of, very light weight, excellent eye relief, classic looks (at least more so than most) and a decent price in a scope like leupold does. If someone would like to point out to me another scope brand that has all of these characteristics in their scopes, please do. I am a "set and forget" scope user and I have had very good service out of Leupolds. Yes, I I have sometimes had to "tap the turret", when sighting in and used more ammo than I should have to, but that is the price that I am willing to pay for the combination of characteristics in a scope that I have mentioned above. I like Burris scopes, but for their models that would meet my needs, the eye relief is too short and/or the scope is heavier than I want to put on my rifle. RJ

Burris is an ole Phillipino word translating to mean 1” eye relief. Denver redfields were awesome scopes. The only drawback was the limited eye relief. There is a connection there as already pointed out

You forgot one thing. Excellent Optics for the money. For the reasons you listed and the one I just added, I am a fan boy. And let me tell you, Leupold ain't the only one I have to tap on to get it to move. You pay $1000-$1500 or more for a scope, yeah you better not have to tap on it to make it move, but then again, such scope doesn't enter into this criteria. If I want to spend twice the price of a rifle for a sighting system then I'll agree with you. But while I'm on a retirement income, I'll just stick with Leupold.

I was, for decades, and have never had an issue other than the evasive zero, but then none of mine really had that many rounds on them or were mounted on heavy kickers, except a ML scope on a lightweight Knight .50, which was pretty "lively". None were dialed in use either. The last three I acquired were a VX2 3-9, a VX5HD 2-10, and a VX3i 3.5-10. The VX2 was typically flaky while zeroing. I only put a few rounds on it before moving it to another rifle I gave away. The VX3i worked perfectly for 100 rounds or so, then was sold after I sold the rifle it was on. The VX5-HD remains, mounted on my Fieldcraft, and is easily the nicest scope I've ever owned, in pretty much every way, and it was free, courtesy of a CameraLand drawing. I really hope it holds up, but if it goes South, I'll probably replace it with an SHV of the same magnification, which costs about the same and has a better reputation for reliability.

You're right about the Leupold "features", but once I started trying some other brands, I found that the generally shorter eye-relief wasn't as much of an issue as I thought. The adjustments on Burris FF and E1s have worked perfectly, though they can feel a bit mushy, as have a couple of Weavers, and four "Chinese junk" Hawkes. None of them have failed in any way either, and none cost anywhere near as much as even the VX-2, many actually about half on sale. Meanwhile, a number of reliable, knowledgeable users here, who generally do a lot more shooting than I, have reported multiple failures, out of the box or soon after, of current-model Leupolds, and also of getting less than stellar service on them. I think a bit of eye-relief, and maybe a little optical performance is a pretty good trade for a good chunk of cash and especially, rock-solid reliability. I'd go back to buying Leupolds in a heartbeat if they would address the crappy erector issue, but they totally deny its existence.

FWIW, I just picked up two very nice Leupold M8s, a 4x and a 6, and plan to put them on a pair of FN .270s, where I expect them to shine, once I get them wobbled into zero. I paid more for each of them than any of the Burris scopes I have, but still less than my last VX2.

I know what you're saying Pappy. I have one Hawke, a 2x10x50 Endurance model. While the adjustments and glass are good, eye relief excellent, I do not like the large black donut around the image it has, which, I believe is called "tunnel vision" and after mounting it on a rifle with it's 20+ ounce weight, not counting the scope rings, it screwed up the balance so bad on that rifle that I removed it and never put it on another rifle. Of course the 50mm obj did not help, having to use higher rings, so no more 50mm's for me. I will probably not ever use a scope heavier than 17 ounces on a light weight rifle, ( which includes all of my rifles). And I only go 17 ounces to include the Meopta Meopro scopes, because they check all of the other boxes for me. I actually prefer my scopes under 14 ounces, but for rifles that I want an illuminated dot reticle scope on, I have to bump up a couple of ounces,
And those favorable characteristics in a scope that I like so much, you will be hard pressed to find a scope, still in production, that checks all of those boxes, (especially the weight box), regardless of how much it costs.
I know, I am just an old man that likes what he likes. But, that is my story and I'm sticking to it. RJ

I'm so scoped up now it might be years before I buy another, unless something craps. Still, Rifles Happen, usually followed by scopes😜

Here in Romania, a firearms licensed individual is only permitted to posses 15 firearms. When you are at the limit, you have to sell one to get another one, (which is a hassle in itself). That is the only thing that has slowed me down. RJ

Here in America u can have 2 children until u get divorced then the judge gives them and ur check to the ex. It’s a repetitive vicious cycle but it’s similar nonetheless. U have to sell ur guns to c ur children. It’s what holds all good dads back.

Swampokie, I was born and raised in the U.S.A. I lived there until about 6 and a half years ago. And yes, what you said above is a true story. RJ

About this "external fogging..."

I once made the error of keeping my rifle in an air conditioned camper with me overnight, and ran the AC hard enough to keep it at about 67*F. I left the camper with rifle slung the next morning as the sun was peeping over the horizon. It was about 80*F that morning and muggy as can be. I hadn't walked a quarter mile when I saw a coyote out in the wheat field, maybe 200 yards out. I had him dead to rights. When I raised the rifle to aim, my scope was entirely fogged up and I couldn't have hit him from fifteen feet away. This was about four years ago.

I don't know external fogging can be avoided except that I believe (am I mistaken?) I have heard of coatings that are reputed to do just that. I can't imagine that it's 100% effective, though.

Oh, yeah...the scope this happened to? It was a VX-3 or VX-3i.

I go FFII everytime I don't go NF, Bush, SS for a dialing scope, specifically the 3x9's. They are about as great a set and forget scope as it gets and the BP reticle is pretty workable with most cartridges with a little math work.. They are rock solid for me..

I never buy a new scope, but when I do it is never Leupold.

I have around 70 Leupolds and have never had one fail.

I sent a couple of 1960's vintage Vari-X scopes back to be cleaned and recharged and I sent several in to have the reticles changed to the heavy duplex style before the price for a reticle change was no longer a good value. I don't care for the "tactical" look of the Feedom series, but that is aesthetics, not mechanics.