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Howdy fire,

I was recently gifted a Marlin guide gun lever action 45-70 by my father.
He tends to be an Indian given, so I'm trying not to get too attached, haha.

Anyhow, what should I know about reloading for this gun?
I usually reload for pistol on my 550, but occasionally dabble in rifle reloading as well, so I know how to stay safe, read load data, test with chrony, look for pressure and work up, etc.
I also have a rock chucker, so I probably won't buy the 45-70 shell plate until I know I need it.

If anybody has a favorite bullet/grain/powder/load, lemme know wink

Usage is dual fold - I want to blow up milk jugs and have fun around the farm without breaking the bank.
I'd also like to take deer up to 100 yards. I'll only be shooting iron sights, so won't be pushing it too far.
I'd prefer to use one load for everything so as not to have to adjust to multiple points of impact, but if that's unrealistic I can build a solid plinking load and use other guns for deer this winter.

Berry's Bullets 350 grain looks like a good purchase once they get back in stock. Ditto starline brass.

If anyone is looking to bail on dies, brass, and bullets, my DMs are open.
Otherwise I'll probably just buy lee dies, since this will be far from a "precision" round.

Thanks!

Last edited by CaptArab; 07/02/20.
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With a tubular magazine the Lee factory crimp die is your friend.

If you want to blow up milk jugs or plink around the farm far more cost effective rounds are available. 55 grain charges and .45 bullets that don't grow on trees will reinforce this.

Your father gifted you the Guide gun because with full charges as listed in the "lever action only" section of current manuals will get your attention. Give it back to him.

300 and 405 grain factory stuff is mild mannered, if you reload using a whole bunch of gunpowder see below;

Invest in a Limb saver slip on for use on the bench and take it off when hunting.

If you do decide to keep it, invest in a good front sight and a ghost ring for the back to replace the factory issue sights.

400 grain Speer and 405 Remingtons are soft and punch big holes in deer sized animals. 400 hard cast punch holes all the way through meat targets.

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I have used a 325 grain cast gas checked bullet out of my rifle.

Have shot one hog so far and he did not like the two holes.

I have tried H-322 for full power loads and Trail Boss for loads that don't kill on both ends.

They do a good job at grouping at 100 so i quit there.

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Thanks fellas, I try appeciwte the replies.

When I say "plink* I mean at the most a couple dozen rounds- I've got plenty of 223, 308, etc for high volume.

Here's what I'm trying to figure out wrt hunting loads.
In hunt a lot with 223 and 243.
Those need an expensive expanding bullet to ethically kill dear like a black hills tipped match king or nosler balstic tip.

Can I ethically kill dear with any ol hard cast or jacketed cheap bullet out of the big ass 45/70?

Itose Berry's look cheap enough for lotsa fun if they'll put the Bambi's down sans tracking.

Thanks for your personal experience plainsman.

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Bart,. Thanks I'll be buying the LFC die fore sure

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be sure to get a sissy pad


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I have owned a bunch of 45-70 rifles. Original Trapdoor Springfield rifles and carbines, original Winchester 1885, Browning 1886, and various Marlin 1895 configurations.
Cast bullet loads for TD pressures are easy to shoot. But the Marlins will take loads way beyond other rifles.
I still hunt with my 1880 Springfield TD carbine and the low level loads but in a Marlin lever (the only one capable of such loads) I find that a 300 grain Speer jacketed bullet over 52 grains of Re7 really stops them in their tracks. Recoils will be snotty....
My Springfield had a badly pitted barrel and I had it re-lined several years ago so I now shoot the low pressure loads but with 405 JSP bullets.

I have always found that jacketed bullets perform better on game than cast bullets. The soft cast bullets just punch a hole straight through while the jacketed bullets open up on the way through impacting more shock.

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Originally Posted by CaptArab
Thanks fellas, I try appeciwte the replies.

When I say "plink* I mean at the most a couple dozen rounds- I've got plenty of 223, 308, etc for high volume.

Here's what I'm trying to figure out wrt hunting loads.
In hunt a lot with 223 and 243.
Those need an expensive expanding bullet to ethically kill dear like a black hills tipped match king or nosler balstic tip.

Can I ethically kill dear with any ol hard cast or jacketed cheap bullet out of the big ass 45/70?

Itose Berry's look cheap enough for lotsa fun if they'll put the Bambi's down sans tracking.

Thanks for your personal experience plainsman.


I disagree that you need "expensive expanding bullets" to kill deer with 223 or 243, but that isn't the subject at hand (55gr Hornady PSP w/cannelure is your friend).

Yes, you can kill pretty much everything on the continent with "any ol hard cast or jacketed cheap bullet out of the big ass 45/70", but that doesn't mean you don't have to give it some thought.

I've never tried the Berry's in 45/70, but I have seen the Berry's 158gr RNFP plated on a deer out of a 357 rifle. There was obviously not much expansion based upon the exit hole, but the bullet broke a rib and made a surprising wound channel basically broadside on a big doe. She hobbled maybe 50 feet.

Shooting for bone would have been a better idea. That's what I'd suggest on deer with cast or non-expanding bullets. With lighter weight expanding bullets (and even the big 400gr jacketed FP) it isn't required, but will help if you don't want to do any tracking. The only way to guarantee no tracking is some version of a CNS shot anyway. Low chest shots can sometimes shut them down, but if they don't die right there, the blood trail is heavy in my limited experience. 45/70 bullets are designed around the pressure and performance of the Springfield rifle, and you can outdo that by quite a ways in the lever gun. The penalty is in recoil in the light-weight Guide Gun.

If you don't cast your own, buy some cheap cast from Missouri Bullets or the like, in the size that is the biggest they offer, because Marlin barrels run oversize. .460" works for me.

Don't be afraid to download a bit. You don't need 2000 fps with a 350 gr 46 cal bullet to kill deer (or elk, or moose, etc). I use pistol powders most of the time with cast bullets 300-400gr, and they shoot so well that I generally stay there. These bullets will likely shoot lengthwise through any deer. They don't need speed, and are hindered by it at some point.


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Thanks HuntnShoot,

You sound like you've done this before smile I appreciate it.

Any particular pistol powder you'd recommend?
Thanks!

Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Originally Posted by CaptArab
Thanks fellas, I try appeciwte the replies.

When I say "plink* I mean at the most a couple dozen rounds- I've got plenty of 223, 308, etc for high volume.

Here's what I'm trying to figure out wrt hunting loads.
In hunt a lot with 223 and 243.
Those need an expensive expanding bullet to ethically kill dear like a black hills tipped match king or nosler balstic tip.

Can I ethically kill dear with any ol hard cast or jacketed cheap bullet out of the big ass 45/70?

Itose Berry's look cheap enough for lotsa fun if they'll put the Bambi's down sans tracking.

Thanks for your personal experience plainsman.


I disagree that you need "expensive expanding bullets" to kill deer with 223 or 243, but that isn't the subject at hand (55gr Hornady PSP w/cannelure is your friend).

Yes, you can kill pretty much everything on the continent with "any ol hard cast or jacketed cheap bullet out of the big ass 45/70", but that doesn't mean you don't have to give it some thought.

I've never tried the Berry's in 45/70, but I have seen the Berry's 158gr RNFP plated on a deer out of a 357 rifle. There was obviously not much expansion based upon the exit hole, but the bullet broke a rib and made a surprising wound channel basically broadside on a big doe. She hobbled maybe 50 feet.

Shooting for bone would have been a better idea. That's what I'd suggest on deer with cast or non-expanding bullets. With lighter weight expanding bullets (and even the big 400gr jacketed FP) it isn't required, but will help if you don't want to do any tracking. The only way to guarantee no tracking is some version of a CNS shot anyway. Low chest shots can sometimes shut them down, but if they don't die right there, the blood trail is heavy in my limited experience. 45/70 bullets are designed around the pressure and performance of the Springfield rifle, and you can outdo that by quite a ways in the lever gun. The penalty is in recoil in the light-weight Guide Gun.

If you don't cast your own, buy some cheap cast from Missouri Bullets or the like, in the size that is the biggest they offer, because Marlin barrels run oversize. .460" works for me.

Don't be afraid to download a bit. You don't need 2000 fps with a 350 gr 46 cal bullet to kill deer (or elk, or moose, etc). I use pistol powders most of the time with cast bullets 300-400gr, and they shoot so well that I generally stay there. These bullets will likely shoot lengthwise through any deer. They don't need speed, and are hindered by it at some point.

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Have a Guide Gun, and my only suggestion is one doesn't need to hot rod a 45-70. Shooting 405 grain slugs at 1,200 to 1,300 fps is fun, and they will down anything in north or south America. I decided to hop mine up to about 1,750 fps and it kills on both ends. Also the first unit I ever noticed torque when torching it off. Need to find someone willing to light off my remaining 85 rounds and I'll get back to a sensible load.

A buddy has a stainless version and both are surprisingly accurate.


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HS6 with 300, 350 and 405’s shoot excellent in my 1895G



Lots of pistol powder data here


http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm


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Be advised of Vic's "Law of Big Bore Lever Rifle Hunting". Especially pertinent to heavily loaded rounds.

First, you must be vewy, vewy quiet.

When the desired game is in view and all conditions for Humane Harvesting are met, acquire proper sight picture.

Pull trigger.

He who gets up first, wins.

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In my 1895 SBL I shoot a 405gr hard cast over 50grs of Varget for an even 1500fps chronographed. With 45 grains of Reloder 7 and a 350 jacketed Hornady flat nose I get 1800fps. The varget load tends to leave a bit of unburned powder because it's on the slow side burn rate wise for the 45-70, but its very accurate with tolerable recoil. As the others have said things get unpleasant quick with near max loads, and they are not necessary. I'm using RCBS dies in a T-7 press. I like to trim all my cases initially to get a uniform crimp, and do be sure to crimp for that levergun.

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yep......LFCD

Lee factory crimp die

Trailboss is fun powder too....cast plinker loads

12-13 grains...don't compress......

powder to base of bullet only

complete load info on the IMR site


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My 1895 Guide Gun is relegated to only using hard cast lead bullets. Have run spectrum from 300 to 525 grains; they're all enjoyable (other than recoil). Hope to shoot something with it other than paper. Hogs or an elk would be fun.


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Many is the deer and a darn site lot of hogs that have fallen to my 45-90 loaded with a 480 gr. NEI bullet cast of 25-1 at a whopping 1200 fps. One mulie forkhorn even took a second step before collapsing, never to rise again.


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Originally Posted by CaptArab
Thanks HuntnShoot,

You sound like you've done this before smile I appreciate it.

Any particular pistol powder you'd recommend?
Thanks!

Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Originally Posted by CaptArab
Thanks fellas, I try appeciwte the replies.

When I say "plink* I mean at the most a couple dozen rounds- I've got plenty of 223, 308, etc for high volume.

Here's what I'm trying to figure out wrt hunting loads.
In hunt a lot with 223 and 243.
Those need an expensive expanding bullet to ethically kill dear like a black hills tipped match king or nosler balstic tip.

Can I ethically kill dear with any ol hard cast or jacketed cheap bullet out of the big ass 45/70?

Itose Berry's look cheap enough for lotsa fun if they'll put the Bambi's down sans tracking.

Thanks for your personal experience plainsman.


I disagree that you need "expensive expanding bullets" to kill deer with 223 or 243, but that isn't the subject at hand (55gr Hornady PSP w/cannelure is your friend).

Yes, you can kill pretty much everything on the continent with "any ol hard cast or jacketed cheap bullet out of the big ass 45/70", but that doesn't mean you don't have to give it some thought.

I've never tried the Berry's in 45/70, but I have seen the Berry's 158gr RNFP plated on a deer out of a 357 rifle. There was obviously not much expansion based upon the exit hole, but the bullet broke a rib and made a surprising wound channel basically broadside on a big doe. She hobbled maybe 50 feet.

Shooting for bone would have been a better idea. That's what I'd suggest on deer with cast or non-expanding bullets. With lighter weight expanding bullets (and even the big 400gr jacketed FP) it isn't required, but will help if you don't want to do any tracking. The only way to guarantee no tracking is some version of a CNS shot anyway. Low chest shots can sometimes shut them down, but if they don't die right there, the blood trail is heavy in my limited experience. 45/70 bullets are designed around the pressure and performance of the Springfield rifle, and you can outdo that by quite a ways in the lever gun. The penalty is in recoil in the light-weight Guide Gun.

If you don't cast your own, buy some cheap cast from Missouri Bullets or the like, in the size that is the biggest they offer, because Marlin barrels run oversize. .460" works for me.

Don't be afraid to download a bit. You don't need 2000 fps with a 350 gr 46 cal bullet to kill deer (or elk, or moose, etc). I use pistol powders most of the time with cast bullets 300-400gr, and they shoot so well that I generally stay there. These bullets will likely shoot lengthwise through any deer. They don't need speed, and are hindered by it at some point.



Any pistol powder will work well. I started with Unique, then moved to faster powders like W231 and Titegroup, then to Longshot, Blue Dot, and 2400. I got down to ridiculously low charges of the fastest burners before I finally stuck a jacketed bullet in the barrel, just to see how low I could go. In the 1895's, you can get basically full power loads out of powders like Longshot, Blue Dot, and 2400. My favorite load uses Longshot and pushes a 350 gr bullet to just under 2000fps in a 26" barrel.


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I always like 3031 in any 45-70 I loaded for.Those pistol powders looked kinda lonely way down there at the bottom


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Tikkanut:

Quote
don't compress......


Good one,


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