Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Dissect the Target

As you may all remember, I set out several years ago to purposely improve my accuracy. Y'all suggested a RAR Predator in 223 Rem as a cheap, easy way to get going. Steps I've taken so far:

1) Acquired the RAR Predator
2) Built 100-yard target frames at 90 Deg so I can best deal with the wind
3) Added a better front and rear bag arrangement to the bench
4) Secured a good supply of single-headstamp brass
5) Re-stocked the RAR Predator in a Boyd's AT-One stock
6) Built a rear elevation platform to raise the rear bag

Yesterday was supposed to be the culmination of all this work. It was going to be a 95 F scorcher. I had a bunch of chores to do at the farm; this was just one of many. As soon as the sun rose, I got going setting up. This was a rarity: it was dead calm.

I had two loads to test:

RP Brass, H4895, CCI 400 Primers.

25.5 gr H4895, 55 gr Hornady FMJBT
24.5 gr H4895, 62 gr Hornady SPBT




I made two 5-round groups with each:

1) 55 grain
2) 62 grain
3) 55 grain
4) 62 grain

1 and 2 were made without worrying about the barrel heating. I wasn't rushing, but I was not waiting for the barrel to cool
3 and 4 were made with several minutes between each shot. By this time I was on the Cub Cadet, mowing the yard. I'd stop every 10 minutes or so and take a shot.

By the time I got to 3 and 4, the temperature was climbing to near 80F. The heat mirage, even at 100 yards, was getting hard to deal with. After the second target, I decided to call it quits. The best thing about this shoot was that with the new rear bag elevator, I could walk away from the rifle, and the scope was still roughly on the target when I got back.

If this were a deer rifle, I'd call it quits and go hunting. However, I'm trying for the first time in my life to actually minimize the group.

In the past, I've gotten better groups out of this rifle. It is recently re-stocked. This is the first time I've really sat down and tested it.

My questions to y'all are as follows:

Given those 4 groups, how would y'all proceed?
To what do y'all make of the stringing? Is it the rifle? The load? The nut holding the rifle?

Did you skim bed the action?

Ist...did you make and call all GOOD shots? Don`t fool with anything till you`ve done that.

If you did that..call all good shots...IMO you have a bedding problem.

Well, just me but I would not consider that to be hunting accurate let alone target accurate.

What is the diameter of the circles?

What kind of accuracy did you get before you re-stocked? Same scope?

Have any factory match ammo on hand?

Did you check concentricity on the handloads?

Target and TAC are good powders BUT I doubt powder is the problem.

Any binding on the action after you bedded it?

Those laminated stocks are stiff but make sure you are not getting contact when you squeeze the barrel and forend together.

If you are shooting the rifle how it sits in the picture, I could see that as a problem. In regards to the rear bag set up I don’t see how that could be comfortable to shoot from, which could lead to poor results. If my assessment is wrong disregard.

I have found the best and quickest way to learn to do anything is to spend some time with someone who is good at what your trying to accomplish. Find a local that shoots a lot and is good at it. By whatever means, get some teaching from them. Ask to shoot one of there proven accurate rifles to get your technique down. Then ask them to shoot your rifle and see if they can tweak it if necessary. If you don’t know anyone, maybe you could pay a gunsmith to help you with the above. If they are good it would be money well spent.

I'll try and answer these the best I can.

1) I bedded the action. There were two metal blocks that Boyd's said required bedding. It is through them the two action screws are inserted, one to either end of the magazine well. I hogged out another few inches of stock-- about 2 inches of barrel and bedded that as well. It's free ($1 bill or more) from there on out.

2) There was only one shot that I know I jerked. That was on the first target/first load, it went left of center. The big problem was the heat mirage. That made the bullseye dance every which-way.

3) The target is printed on 8.5X11. Those are 1/2 inch circles (give or take)

4) The concentricity of the loads was good .001 to .002. I used the Lee neck die on the brass.

5) No, I do not have any match ammo handy, but I do have some ammo that shot considerably better from a few weeks ago. It was loaded on the Hornady LNL AP with BL-C(2).

6) The rear rest is as comfortable as any. I'm rather tall. The big problem is the 100 yard target stand is downhill from the bench.

7) There was some binding on the action when I screwed everything together after bedding. However, I loosened the screws a half-turn, and everything was fine.

Bingo!

When you tighten down the action each screw should go from loose to tight in about 1/2 turn or less. Check it by torqueing the front screw then tightening the rear screw. Now loosen everything up and torque the rear screw and tighten the front screw. In each case when tightening the second screw it should go from loose to tight in 1/2 turn and come up solid. If it doesn't, you have a bedding problem.

If there are swivel studs on the stock, you need to find a way so they’re not touching the bags either as you’re aiming or during recoil.

+1 to above plus this. Just because a dollar bill passes under the barrel it does not mean the free float is a done deal. Try squeezing the end of the fore end and barrel together. There should be enough free float so the barrel and tip do not touch.

There are two currently. I'll see about removing them.

Yeah, we went through a LONG thread on this forum a few months ago, where a guy was shooting tiny groups at 100 yards--which opened up a LOT at 200.

Turned out he was switching benches at the two different distances, and the rear sling stud was hanging up on the bag on the 200-yard bench.

My targets get wonky if I brace the rifle under sling studs, either front or back. When I have been in a hurry to shoot and not paying attention to how the bags have "migrated", it has caused lots of befuddlement for me in the past, and now, particularly when I shoot off someone else's setup, it is one of the things I double-check. I'd start there.

Binding of the action with the action screws tightened sounds wonky. What do you mean by "tightened"? Were they torqued to spec, and then binding, or did you tighten them too tight and then have to back them off?

I had a total of 3 studs. They're gone now. Thanks for the tip. I'd never have thought of it.

Thanks all for sticking your oars in on this one. I'll let you know how it goes.

I just noticed that in your photos the bottom of the pistol grip is also sitting on the rear rest. You need to make sure that it’s not making contact either.

Cool. Thanks.

I'm just guessing here that a bunch of the problems I've had over the years getting a good group probably come from stupid stuff like this.

This right here. Didnt care for the shooting setup as shown either. A better front rest would be nice...reducing the side to side movement. Dont know if the rifle has sling screws but if so, both would be contacting the bags as shown. I've had to learn my lessons over the years about sling screws....when they contact a front or rear bag, well, nothing can help you at that point.

If that front rest has a grippy surface you might want to try it with a soft cloth (washcloth) in between the bag & forend.

Disclaimer: I'm not a Gunwriter.

You have to have a consistent bed for the rifle to shoot off of from one shot to the next shot. We bed our rifle actions so the action sits in the stock the same from shot to shot. A rifle moves a lot between when the trigger breaks and the primer is hit and ignited, you can see this movement when you set up your gun in your shooting rest and dry fire it, watch the crosshairs jiggle when the firing pin slams down and causes this vibration. This is all without recoil and torque of the bullet starting to spin when it hits the lands all of which cause more movement of the gun until the bullet leaves the barrel and final recoil. This is something that can't be prevented, can only be accommodated by allowing for this movement to be consistent. If a sling stud, pistol grip ect., is contacting on one shot and not the next it is unlikely the gun will move the same from shot to shot before the bullet leaves the barrel. Add to this a heavy cheek weld, no cheek weld, a death grip on the forend then a light grip, pulled hard into your shoulder and next a light hold or free recoil on one shot and not the next, a different position on the rest, trigger squeeze, consistency and many other things all will cause inconsistent movement of the gun before the bullet leaves the barrel. In other words you cannot prevent the gun from moving before the bullet leaves the barrel so one must focus on arranging for the movement of the gun before the bullet leaves the barrel is consistent from shot to shot if you want to shoot good groups.

Make a major change...or two...or use the rifle for a boat anchor!!

I use dryer sheets...like you use to make your clothes smell fresh as a daisy. Forends slide easily that way. Supposedly an old benchrest competition trick.

Your bedding is the major culprit. You just verified it in your last sentence. The next thing is remove the epoxy from under the barrel and make sure it is generously freefloated. Then, that front bag is not doing you any favors where it is located. You should never rest the forend tip on any surface and expect great accuracy. Move that front bag back closer to the front action screw.

Add me to the bedding issue list. A little talcum powder works well for the front rest. I have driven myself crazy from shooting off a shaky bench or bags. One time I was ready to throw in the towel in or my rifle down the range thinking how can I adjust the scope the bullet holes are not even touching. I pulled in the target and my sh*ty group was about a half inch so I called it done.

You can also put something on the barrel like Prussian blue or lipstick, I like graphite powder as it is a little less messy. But after a range session it will mark any contact points in the barrel channel that need attention. You could also try a shim under the barrel in front of the action to see if that makes a difference.

But first I would scrape or sand out the action bedding and re-bed and use the screws to just position the action and use a bungee or surgical tubing to put pressure on the scrim bedding, not too tight just firm. Blind action screws make this easier to do. I would probably also relieve the barrel channel a bit more mostly at the bottom rather than the edges. A laminate stock is typically stiffer than most glass fiber stocks and can stand to be neutral bedded so that is another option. It wouldn't hurt to try a temporary pressure point as well before final bedding.

Then there is always the tomato stake option, I never seem to have enough tomato stakes around.

Not sure how that rear bag set up is good , a good eared bag with a thick flat bottom would be better .
Is that front bag bottom setting flat ? If it is not , that could be a problem also .
Is it filled with lightweight filler or heavy ? Heavy would be better .
Since you have a minimum of barrel float , I would get that front bag back as close to the receiver as possible to help eliminate any down pressure in your hold from causing contact between barrel and stock .
All other things mentioned are also a player in your game .
Look up various shooting clubs or disciplines in your area and let them know your interested as a shooter and would like to drop in on a match and see what’s going on .
Even if you decide it’s not for you , you can observe their gear and work on your set up .
Most of these people are always ready to bring in someone interested in the sport .
Benchrest central is a good place to explore shooting matches of various levels with a little research of the site you may find something in your area .
Rimfire central also , just sign in and ask at one of these sites for your area .
I am not a gun writer either but like to help others pursue the sport .
Good luck , Kenneth

Something you might consider is your positioning. I have a tendency to change my shooting position between shots when I'm not paying attention to details. When I do this my groups tend to string from low left to higher right. When I carefully keep my position the same, my groups tend to be more concentric and smaller. For me that means, feet at the same place and position, seat the same place, rifle sitting the same way and place, my body in the same position, cheek weld the same and the same amount restock crawl.
In my experience absolutely everything needs to be done consistently in order to measure the accuracy of a rifle and load. Consistently small groups take practice in addition to good equipment.
I have a number of rifles that will shoot moa regularly, but i can't always shoot moa .
Just a thought.
Bfly

How solid is that wood bench? I have had the chance to shoot off of a number of them that wobble when weight is applied. If you don't do it evenly each time that can add to your chase on the paper.

That's a good question. It needs an update. I've got the wood and paint. I just need the time. It's fairly solid, but you have to have it on its sweet spot, otherwise, it rocks. This is due to the unevenness of the concrete front porch, and not the bench. The porch was poured on a footer that was too shallow. The whole house bucks and heaves from season to season. The sweet spot moves too.

The bench has an interesting history. I built it from a combination of scraps leftover from siding the house and pallets that I scored at work. The legs are red oak skid runners onto which 75 lb billets of aluminum were strapped. I had a gazillion of them at one time. The top lifts off from the base to make it easier to move. I will reposition it in the yard to shoot the 400-yard range.

Back in 2008, I came down after dark and found that the bench was gone. WtF? Who would steal a shooting bench? It really cheesed me. The next day, I was drinking my coffee out on the porch and saw an indentation in the grass that matched the legs of the bench. Then I saw another and then another. A trail of these led to finding the bench and the stool out in the pasture. I later found out an EF0 tornado had come through earlier in the week. The bench just needed a couple of screws to be put back together.


Blackfly: That's spot-on. I'm just starting to get that awareness. Honestly, when I look back 15 years ago, it's a wonder I hit anything. This has been a slow process. I really never considered any of this until a relatively short time ago.