Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Berger Bullets?

Has anyone used a Berger Hunting bullet?

How did it perform?

What animal was it?

What caliber was the bullet?

Any other thoughts?
l

Yes
Great
WT deer
.172 (17-204)
100yd ish...neck shot....Bang flop....

Yes
Great
WT deer
.243 (6x47L)
252 yard head shot...bang flop

I shoot the 105 hybrids in my 243. Although technically a " target bullet" it performs like other Berger hunting bullets. I have killed a boatload of deer, and coyotes, as well as a wolf of two, and an antelope. The bullets are very accurate, and generally kill really quickly due to the fact that all of the energy is transferred inside of the animal, as the bullet fragments in a large wound chanel. The downside for some is that a lot of times because of this, there is no exit hole. This may vary with the size of game, and the size of bullet used. Shoot a Texas whitetail doe with a 180 grain berger, and you may have an exit the size of a soccer ball. On an elk, probably not. Berger also cause a lot of tissue damage in their expansion. This helps in quick klls, but many hunters don't like all the blood shot and mess. Hope that helps.

My experience is limited to the 140 grain 6.5 hunting berger, plus some of the 1st generation .30 cal bullets, but they're too soft for me. Hit an antelope, deer or elk tight behind the shoulder and you're good to go.
Hit an elk on the shoulder and you're in for a rodeo. BTDT, 6-7 times now.

I've switched to harder bullets.

Check Here

Been several threads on the 'fire, this is one.

I've had super success and performance from Berger's in the past 5 years and I've gone to using them exclusively from javelina to elk. I generally run them heavy for caliber with MV's no more than 2900 (other than my dedicated long range deer rifle).

Super duper accuracy, great BC, great animal reaction, minimal to no tracking, and I usually get exits or partial jacket exits too, even on elk. I'm a fan.

105 vld hunting work on white tails

140g vld hunting in 7/08 killed a monster buck, shot by my neice at 340 yards

168g Classic Hunting, 168g vld hunting, and 180g vld hunting all work well in 7 mags

We have not had any failures.

We are also very happy with the 7mm Nosler 175g LRAB in the 7 mag with R#22 and R#26, unbelievable penetration with great amount of shock.

I think I was starting the 140 berger out of my 6.5X284 at about 2880 FPS....and I was still getting major blow ups when I hit elk shoulders at normal ranges.
Deer, black bear and antelope: no problem. They worked great with any shot placement, bone or no bone. Out of about 10-12 or so deer sized critters, I never got an exit but they killed just fine.

Then one day I took this last day raghorn right at 600 yards. I have no idea what the impact velocity was (I guess could look it up), but it was obviously slow enough that it held together and exited on that left side. I do not remember if I hit any ribs or not.


I later had two rodeos with cow elk hit on the shoulder or scapula with this same lot of bullets out of the same rifle, both at less than 200 yards. I tracked one through knee deep snow to a private fenceline and lost her. The other bedded in the timber and I put another round into her head. When I cut her up the scapula had a rock chip looking spiderweb crack to it, from where the bullet hit, but didn't penetrate. Two other rag bulls were killed without drama with the same lot of bullets but without shoulders being hit. Different lots of bergers at roughly the same impact velocity have produced similar results for me.

For me, bergers (the 140 hunting at least) just are not versatile or reliable enough for all ranges and all shot angles that I have had on elk, I guess. I'm glad you and others have had more reliable success with them than I. I've switched to harder bullets for elk.

I don't buy them ever. I have seen about 3 Dz kills by other hunters using them and for about 12 of those I was standing next to the shooter.
NOT impressed!

I think T Inman is right about exits. Sure they kill. Any high powered rifle will kill. But any running car will carry cement blocks too. It doesn't mean all cars carry block as well as every other car. A fragmenting bullet in the right place is deadly and if someone kills well with them and likes them, that's OK with me . But they are too frangible to make me happy.

Others disagree, but for my use I don't buy them, and would not take them if they were given to me if I was told I had to hunt with them as part of the deal.

For those that like them, I don't have a dog in their fight. Have at them if you like them.
Generally speaking they are accurate. That I will give them

I think Berger threads have been thoroughly run through here on the fire. I'm sure you could find some of those threads if you do the right search. I've had a lot of good experiences with them out of 243, which are 105's, and 30-06 and 300 SAUM, with the 185 and 190gr VLD's. Some claim they are too frangible, but have never seen one of the 30 cals not exit, on both elk and deer, from 30yds to about 550yds, on broadside and somewhat quartering shots. The 243's are a bit light for elk, and they don't have much pop left in them after getting through a front shoulder. They do the job otherwise. They put big holes through deer.

I've found that the Hornady BTHP do exactly the same thing, are just as accurate for me, and are cheaper. Heavy for caliber is key. I still like Bergers in 30 cal, though I haven't used them for a few years.

+1! I’ve had excellent results from Berger’s and will be using them on my NM elk hunt this year for sure. 195s from a 28Nosler shooting 1/2MOA.

I hope you had two tags!😁

Have not and will not. There are simply too many reports of what, to me, is unacceptable performance – including those from T_Inman and szihn in this thread.

While other bullets may not have B.C. values equal to the Berger bullets, I haven’t found the difference to be a problem inside 600 yards. What I have found is other bullets that perform well at a wide variety of impact velocities. By “well” I mean providing reliable but controlled and limited expansion and high weight retention. We’ve been using Barnes MRX, TTSX and LRX bullets since they were introduced and no one in my hunt group has recovered one. Straight-down DRT results are common, running right around 50% with no animals going more than a few yards. Nosler AB have provided similar performance with no recoveries from antelope to elk. I’ve recovered a couple of North Fork SS bullets from elk but both smashed a lot of bone before coming to a stop. They are no longer available but the Federal Trophy Bonded Tip, Edge TLR and Terminal Ascent have similar construction (mono rear with bonded front core) with the addition of a polymer tip. I plan to use the Terminal Ascent for elk this fall.

The only cup-and-core bullets I use in my bolt rifles are the 90g BT and 95g SST in my .243 Win – and only for antelope. Can’t complain so far but antelope don’t provide much of a challenge to a bullet’s integrity.

In my 38 years of elk hunting I’ve had shot opportunities as close as 25 feet with my longest shot at 487 yards. My first elk was taken with a bullet (7mm RM/162g BTSP) chosen for its relatively high B.C. value. That turned out to be a rather poor choice. Weight retention was under 50% and the only bone hit was a near-side rib. The following year I switched to a lower B.C. Speer 160g Grand Slam and it took me twenty years to recover one. That one destroyed both shoulder joints of a 6x6 bull and still retained over 70% of its original weight. Over the years I’ve taken more elk with that combo than all other bullets combined – including my last elk, a 6x5 bull at 411 yards, 4 steps and down.

It is a truism that most bullets will work most of the time. It is also true that it sucks when they don’t. Pay attention to T_Inman and szihn and others with similar results when making your choice of bullet.

I've got some 7mm 168 grain Berger hunting bullets a guy gave me. I've only shot a few out of the box and they seem very accurate no more of them that I've shot. I might try them on deer but if I ever have occasion to go elk hunting I'll use my .270 Win. with 150 grain Nosler Partition. Not that I'm an elk expert, never been elk hunting, but from what I've read on here (and I've read it so many times that I believe it) there's two great elk bullets, Barnes TSX ( also TTSX) and Nosler Partition. I like the concept of Nosler Partition.

Been using them in my 28 Nosler since I had it built. Coues deer and elk mainly. From 280 yards to 700. Everything has been excellent.

Many years ago I had major disappointments with a bullet “supposedly” designed for large and potentially dangerous game....I’ll be damn if I use a bullet that is designed to give rapid expansion, with fragmentation offering minimal penetration. I don’t care how high the BC or how accurate it is reputed to be! Any questions? memtb

No, I have not tried them and likely won’t.

Comments online notwithstanding, their own design description doesn’t meet my criteria for mule deer and elk hunting bullets. I prefer the penetration and controlled expansion of Barnes and Trophy Bonded bullets. I normally don’t shoot much past 300 yards so the high BC is relatively unimportant. Get closer, don’t miss.... Bring enough gun. Happy Trails

Thanks.

Yep, I find them very accurate.

However I'll stick with the Barnes, which are accurate at the correct seating depth.

I have had bullet failures never again.

I love Barnes. However, I have either witnessed, or done it myself, critters that would *likely* have not been killed/recovered if shot with Barnes instead of Bergers.


Also, protip, don't aim for shoulders on an elk when using Bergers.

Out of a 308 Win. the 168 VLD has been great on deer and hogs.

I'm not an elk hunter, but that seems reasonable to me. Horses for courses and all.

I have used them on the following animals.

7/08AI- 140 Hunting. Mule Deer Buck at 210 yards. No Exit DRT.
7/08AI- 140 Hunting Black Tail Buck 490 yards- No Exit DRT
7mm- 168 Hunting- Black tail Buck 190 yards. no Exit DRT.
28 Nosler- 180 Hunting- Black Buck 200 yards. No Exit DRT
28 Nosler- 180 Hunting- White Tail doe- 100 yards- No Exit DRT.

This is only a small sample but I have enjoyed the results.

More like 7 ! ............

Not for me thank you. I will stick to my Accubonds and Long Range accubonds thanks.

You pegged it for me. I might be tempted to shoot a bit farther than 300 yards but not much. When wind gets iffy my distance ceases to get longer. I really suspect a lot of people that talk this [bleep] have no conception of what even 300 yards looks like, much less 400. That's a long way out there and a little wind will go a long way in misdirecting your bullet. I shot a hog at a little over 300 yards once and let me tell you, I was amazed I killed it. He only ran about 20 yards. But if he'd been another 100 yards out It would have been a real challenge. I have no problems shooting at hogs at long range, they're not game animals, they're pests. But if it's a deer or other game animal, the conditions would have to be very good for me to chance a shot. And much over 400 and I would pass.

I know the 6.5 140’s dig really good started off at 3000 FPS. Muleys, blacktails, whitetail, bear and elk.

My experience mirrors the above, shot a large pig in her shoulder. She got up, went back to eating corn. She was trapped in a large round pen. They were very accurate

Pro tip. Use a better bullet and shoot and kill elk at all angles.

My philosophy since 1993! memtb

I have the 156 EOL on order to try in my 6.5's. Should work in the 26 Nosler, 6.5-284, even the 6.5x55. Some shoot them in the Creed, but I think they'd be moving pretty slow.

My 6.5-284 has a 26" Kreiger and is very accurate. I'm thinking RL-26 and hoping for 2,800 or so fps. I'll use 869 in the Nosler, should reach 3K fps.

DF

I don't like the amount of lead that can get in the meat from Bergers. Other bullets if all the blood shot meat is trimmed it is usually fine, with Bergers even some meat that washed up fine still had lead fragments in it. They do kill fast but now there are so many other choices for higher BC bullets like the ELDs and LRAB I go for a more controlled expanding bullet when available. But most of the game I take is at relatively close range, typically 300 yds. or less. If all my shots were at extended ranges then I would re-consider the Berger.

Quote: “If all my shots were at extended ranges then I would re-consider the Berger.”

The key word being “all”! memtb

I reckon, like most expansive type bullets, depends on how fast you're driving them.

That's why I'm trying the 156 EOL in some of my 6.5 rifles. Heavier, slower Berger Hunting bullet may be OK. I've killed deer with 140 VLDH out of the 6.5-284. DRT, but they do frag, have seen multiple exit holes from frag pieces.

For chest shooting WT's they should work OK. I try to stay out of the shoulders to preserve meat.

Like Goldilocks and the Three Bears. Parridge was too hot, was too cold, but one was "just right". Finding the "just right" bullet is an art. Gotta find the combo that works.

DF

Yeah, kinda like the "Sierra Stalk" Find the elk and start running away until you get to the range where they will not blow up. Then shoot!

I suspect you'll like them and then blow minds of folks when you get exits.

If you guys would learn holdovers or learn to dial and realize you don't need to shoot big Weatherby type cartridges at things real fast, you'd be real surprised how bullets behave, like Berger's, BTs, Hornady HPBT, amidst many others. There's something to mid range MV and higher BC's I assure you. That should get the anti-Berger/anti-Creedmore crowd riled up.

But then you may not be able to buddy brag about your big guns any longer...grin...

Those that can use real rifles do, those that can't use target guns...

Don't be silly....

Or you can use Long range accubonds or Barnes LRX and not have to worry about your ultra hyper speeds. This is another way to look at it. I have worked up loads with Bergers before but they never produced any groups I could not reproduce with LRX or accubonds or cutting edge for that matter. Life is too short and rifles are way too many to worry about the performance of a Berger or any sub-par bullet (in my eyes).
On the other hand yes I have taken antelope with my 416 Bee at over 450 yards with the 330 GS Custom HV. For me that is fun. Not for everyone mind you, but I find it personally rewarding.

Oh I don't worry I assure you as I actually use them as they were intended unlike most who are opining about them, par for today's 24HC experience.

Many ways to skin cats these days though most are stuck...

The LRX is a good compromise bullet yes., The LRABs I've seen were way soft....

+1 Greg!!
I’m a big Berger fan and their performance on game has been outstanding for me. I don’t purposely shoot shoulders as I prefer to destroy vitals which the Berger’s do a great job of.
I have started pin drilling the tips also.
For mono bullets the Hammer bullets are a great choice and what I use.

Outstanding sir! The hammers are.......Hammers!

Now if Berger made a 400 gr 375 bullet I would be all over that for steel in my 375 BAS. We keep waiting but nada.

7 mm 168 vld
4 antelope 15 to 453 yards
10 deer out 50 to 435 yards all went less than 50 yards after being shot.
I have never had a problem with them

One question: Why? So many alternatives with excellent track records. Flame away.

One question: Why not? Every bullet design can have failures. I’ve personally had a few “premium” bullets do strange things. I like the performance of Berger’s on game and their accuracy in my rifles.

In the applications I've put them to the Berger's have an excellent track record, deer and pigs falling down right now style.

Why try any bullet at all, Bob? They make factory loaded ammo with Core-Lokts and Powerpoints. Why not just shoot that stuff? It kills just fine. If you can hit with it. If there is no wind. If you are no more than a couple hundred yards away. If you shoot it in the ribs. And so it goes, Bob.

I started shooting Bergers because they were the first bullet that advertised high-BC. They turned my "300 yd" 30-06 into an actual 700 yd hunting rifle, and for BIG animals. Then I learned that 700 might as well be 1500 in a variable crosswind, and most of my scoped rifle shots (when I hunt open country and big burns and canyons) are in the 350-500 range, and even a 30-06 isn't needed to kill BIG animals at those ranges. There are other options now, but they don't necessarily work "better" than the Bergers for me. As I stated above, I've never had a 30 cal 185 or 190 NOT exit. So they are accurate, carry their energy extremely well, buck the wind, fly flat, transfer their energy extremely well, and exit every time, at both extremely short and fairly long range. This is just my experience, but it covers lots of seasons, lots of animals, lots of situations, and lots of success.

The real question is: Why would you try anything else? I know the answer. It is all over this thread. It is IGNORANCE.

You are gonna blow Field and Stream reading, corn feeding minds with this kinda stuff....

I have been told over and over again that they "blow up", and that they "never exit". I have never caught one. I did hit a deer behind the ribs and drove it up through the chest to exit inside the opposite shoulder. It clipped the very front of the shoulder. That was from 30 yds, and that one exited too. What am I doing wrong? Not enough ass shooting?

But but but the internet says they blow up and are no good!😁😁😁
I can’t remember ever not having an exit either. Even at long ranges but I tend to shoot the heaviest bullet I can for the caliber/twist.

Easy there killer
Just because one's taste differs from yours they are ignorant?

Brilliant deduction.

I did not deduce what you claim. I don't think you know what that word means, or how deduction works. I asked a question, and I provided the answer. You dragged my "taste" into it.

Brilliant retardation, there, Chief. Keep shooting a 30-378 with Barnes at elk in the valley, and schitting all over what you have never done, and can't imagine.

I sir, did not poop over anything on this thread. Look at my posts. I clearly said They are NOT for ME. I used them...I did not really like them.
And yes my Bee's all shout well under MOA and they bleed game just like your Bergers do, but with LRX's Partitions, Accubonds etc.
I'm happy with my choice, you're happy with yours. Why does the aforementioned statement make me ignorant?
Cool your jets man we're just talking.

No corn feeder or 90 grains of powder to kill a deer?

If you are referring to me Greg:
1. No Feeders in Wyoming
2. 110 grains of powder. But not always. My last one was 56 gr of H335 in my 444 Marlin.

You're a good sport Fotis ...grin...

I know no feeders in Wyoming.

Good post!

Details. How many animals have you shot with Berger bullets? Calibers? Ranges? I want to know how non-ignorant you are. If you tried them and didn't like them, I would like to know why.

It's all a value judgement. I don't care what bullets or guns or whatever you use. But I am keen to notice that that for many, this discussion becomes and ethical judgment, even though they have almost never tried the thing that they are condemning as ineffective or unethical. If you aren't one of those, good.

I do wonder why, though, that there are so many who have never done a thing, but want to get on a thread talking about that thing so they can condemn that thing.

I haven't used Bergers for about 4 years, I think. Lots of bullets that I have wanted to test, have been introduced recently, including other "target" bullets and other "hunting" bullets. What I have found is that they all work, if you understand their limitations. Some have more limitations than others. And that includes the vaunted and venerable "controlled-expansion premiums."

I will not go a by of all those internet reports of them blowing up and not penetrating yada yada yada. Maybe it's a fact maybe it's not I was not there to see it. I will tell you what I know from personal or personally witnessed experience.

Honestly I personally have used them 2 times. Both on antelope one at 277 yards 140 vld from my 264 Win Mag and one at 349 from my 300 rum. That was at 215 vld. Both did OK but way too much bullet destruction. Meaning hardly any bullet was left only shrapnel. Another one I saw was a 168 vld from a 7mm rum hit a big mule deer buck in the shoulder at 360 yards and failed to penetrate into the vitals.

Now. Did I get my antelope? Absolutely. Did my friend get his mulie? Absolutely, after another shot where it did work as promised. Would I use a berger on elk? No I would not. Now that said I digress to what I said before. Way too many guns for me for multiple loads. 95 percent of my guns use the ttsx or lrx. I try to keep my components as few as possible I get great accuracy and I can shoot mice to moose. Nosler accubond and partitions work quite nicely as well.
Again I never said they are crap. I said they are not for me.

This topic has blown through several feet of posts, expanded, and not exited yet ...

180g VLD whistles a merry tune out of a 7 WSM, and critters from 110 to 617 yards did so hate it. My bullet of choice for long range work.

But you're not a real hunter or using a real gun I suspect. I read it on this very thread.

I think my man GregW has hit the nail on the head, yet again. I trust his word because he is a killing machine in those mountains, and he does so modestly. Most here don't know the high quality animals he kills and guides others to. My hat's off to the guy. If he told me I could go to the bank with a 140 VLD something, then that would be all I need to know.

Now, I experiment a lot, an awful lot culling medium sized game, and/or hogs. I can tell you what a guy DOES NOT want to do very often........and that is run a 168gr VLDH at 3050 and shoot a modest sized whietail at 100 yds.........notice impact was BEHIND the shoulder.

Oh I know uncle Johnny, I got to sleep in his game room, thank god I was drunk, thought I was gonna get fuucked by big muley and coues bucks!!! I passed out though. 😂😂😂

Bwahahahaaaahahaaaa!!!!!!!!

🤣🤣🤣

I could hear Javelinas squealing all kinds a shiit!!! Haha

Very lethal, and essential for those that just want to kill, but not eat the animal they have shot! memtb

Another option is the Scenar, more of the same but a slightly heavier jacket. I think people like me who like the hot rod cartridges and shoot at modest ranges don't appreciate them. Folks who run medium cartridges and medium velocities at longer ranges seem to be the ones who like them the most.

Question for those that use Bergers. Will switching to the target version reduce the fragmentation much due to heavier jackets on the target models?

They work for me on deer, elk, antelope, bears... everything from Texas heart shots to bull elk shoulders.

Yep

I use the Target Hybrids in a few rifle and so do a few buddies. They work very well. They may be a little tougher than the Hunting VLD but they still work like a Berger That’s for sure.

Jud, have no fear. As long as you wear synthetic socks, NOTHING is getting around you at night. Gag a maggot.

Clint, I was wondering why you were massaging my feet every night.. 😂😂

I don't think there is much difference in the jacket. The hybrid is less sensitive to seating depth than the regular bergers, and thus easier to get shooting accurately. You don't have to piddle with them much for them to shoot well. As to the scenars, they are a great bullet. My boy shoots them in an old rem. 700 that I got from Pat. ( scenar shooter). He and I have killed a couple big muledeer, the biggest was a 202" buck with a huge body, close to that of a spike bull, as well as a big bull elk, and several wolves. We had had exits on all of them, with one buck being killed at just over 400 yds. I think the Scenar are definitely harder than the bergers.I have not had them fragment like the bergers, and not as much tissue damage. I am not sure if the scenar implodes on itself like the Berger does, or if it opens like a more traditional hollow point. They are a great bullet though.

Berger bullets ? i really like using Berger bullets for target shooting off the bench and in competition,many others people i shoot with like Berger bullets for target too. i have no experience with these Berger bullets for hunting, i still have plenty Nosler partitions and Swift A-Frame bullets which work just fine for me,for deer or antelope i am sure Berger bullets would work just fine .

Bergers are good game bullets, have been shown to perform.

They do tend to be a big expansive, especially when pushed fast. I've seen lots of fragmentation, even multiple exit wounds, chest turned to soup. Someone mentioned that the Scenar with an equally thin jacket, didn't break up as bad. I think Scenars may have a harder lead core. Although I did blow up a WT chest with a 90 gr. Scenar out of a .240 Wby at 3,350 fps. Never again. So, the bullet has to be matched to the velocity for optimal terminal performance.
.
When I started working up loads for my then new 26 Nosler, I noticed Berger data for the 140 VLDH was topping out at 3,200 fps. I called a tech, told him I could push their 140's WAY faster than that. He said they didn't recommend shooting that bullet faster than 3,200 fps, said to use the target version which has a heavier jacket. I swapped to mono's for that gun. 120 TTSX and or E-Tip at 3,450 to 3,500 fps do mess up meat, and are accurate.

I'm now gonna try the Berger 156 EOL at around 3K fps in the 26 Nos. Going heavier and slower should make a difference. BTW, I got load data for the 156 EOL from a Berger tech last week. They won't publish it, but will give it out over the phone. I got data for the Creed, Swede, 6.5-284 and 26 Nosler. I wrote it down, plan to take it to the office tomorrow, get the girls to scan it.

I haven't used the 6.5-284 or 26 Nos lately, have been off chasing other projects. BTW, the 156 EOL data for the Creed is a good bit faster than the Swede. I may start Creed data in the Swede (mine is an FN action with Shilen barrel), should be as strong as the 700 and should be able to run at modern pressures. That one could be interesting.

The 156 EOL may change the game for me on Berger hunting bullets. It should be a great LR load. Check out the B.C. on that one...

DF

Guess that's why they make Ford and Chevy trucks...

And, then there's Dodge...

Not saying how I relate certain bullets to certain truck brands...

DF

Lost most of the front end of a doe I shot with a 6x47 lapua at about 60 yards. Was using 105 hybrids. She died very quickly but the meat loss was unacceptable. My experience, limited but it confirmed my fears of using it to hunt. Especially where I hunt in the East for white tails .5 moa isn’t really advantageous to just plain old sub moa.

MM

mitchellmountain,

Out of curiosity, where did you shoot the doe?

I've actually gotten less meat destruction with Bergers than conventional bullets--especially if I shoot game behind the shoulder. Unlike most expanding bullets, they don't started to expand until they penetrate 2-3". Then they really expand, the reason they kill quickly.

Most expanding bullets start to expand as soon as they hit skin, the reason most meat damage occurs around the entrance hole. But with Bergers you often have to part the hair to find the tiny entrance hole. Or at least that has been my experience with dozens of them on game up to elk-size.

I even once tried to get one to "explode" on the shoulder of a 200-pound feral goat I'd just dropped with a lung shot, by standing 8-10 feet away and shooting the big joint. That bullet also didn't started to expand until it went through the joint, but it was a 185-grain .30 started at about 2750 from a .30-06. A lighter bullet at 3000+ might have come apart on the shoulder, but I dunno.

But guess I am also puzzled why anybody would choose a Berger for "woods" shots.

If I was hunting eastern whitetail, I think I would stick to nosler bt, corelokts, or something similar, and call it good. Not really where Bergers are going to shine, although they would work.

I’ve never tried them and from what I’ve read I likely never will, at least not on deer sized game and larger. There’s simply far too many GREAT bullets out there to choose from that I have no reason to use a marginal bullet. I like to find a bullet that is designed for what I plan to hunt with that particular rifle and load. I then shoot it for accuracy on paper and do simpleton wet phone book tests at 50 and 100 yards. I then use that load on big game and note it’s performance. I have yet to find a premium hunting bullet that failed that final and ultimate test. If I’ve done my due diligence and limit my expectations of a bullets performance to the parameters it was designed for I’m always satisfied with my choice. I shoot almost exclusively TSX/TTSX and I’ve NEVER had to track an animal. I’ve dropped deer at 20 feet and elk at 537 yards and the bullets I used worked perfectly, just AS DESIGNED! For coyotes and small game I use whatever is accurate and don’t sweat the details. I spend a lot of time up north and in areas that have big predators so my bullet choice takes that variable into account.....namely, ACCURATE.....since if needed during a charge I’m more worried about placement than penetration because whatever bullet I’ve chosen to hunt big game with I already know that it’s up to the task. My primary hunting rifles and my son’s hunting rifle is .308 shooting usually using 150 TTSX and sometimes the 168 TSX. My .338 I use the old 225gr Trophy Bonded Bearclaw but that rifle likes everything except the Partition. It loved the old X bullet and it loves the new TSX/TTSX’s as well. Our daughter shoots a .243 using the 80gr TTSX

I’ll be sending a pre-64 (1954 iirc) in 30-06 to JES for a rebore to 35 Whelen and cut to 20” so I’ll be looking for a load that is stoutly constructed and packs a punch. I want a lighter weight easy to carry in thick brush and quick to shoulder rifle. Something durable that will be going in and out of boats and exposed to saltwater. I’l probably start (and end) with the 225 TSX. 😁

I’m sure Bergers are great on paper and coyotes but choosing a bullet to do something it wasn’t necessarily designed for is irresponsible.imho. We owe it to the game we hunt to do our best to ensure a quick, clean kill. Even bullets used specifically for the game that they’re intended for can suffer a “failure” since the variables are endless and parameters are exceeded. All of my hunting rifles shoot under 1” at a hundred yards shooting the bullets that they’ll be hunting with, almost exclusively using factory ammunition. With that accuracy available using properly constructed bullets like the TTSX, TSX, Partition, TBBC, A-Frame....etc, etc.....even the old Corelokt is better than using a “Match” bullet.....no matter how much of a bugholer it is.imho

Why be more concerned with what a bullet was originally designed to do than what it actually does ?

You're talking to the crowd John that still judges Nosler BTs from their experience on a coyote in 1982, meaning limited to no use let alone in the proper application......grin...

Kinda like Scenars which dig deep, but look like a target bullet so by definition they must suck and blow up too...

Greg.

All good points!

Now, that's a quotable...

DF

In thinking about this, how many bullets have you guys seen that don't preform as they were designed?

I shot it just back of the shoulder joint, it was going fast and I was close. I chose to use it because that is what the gun shot the best, which was very good. I read some reports that it did well with game, so I tried it. Maybe it was the perfect( and by that I mean perfectly bad) way to show where it’s limitations. Like I said where I hunt deer in the east, extreme accuracy just isn’t necessary and I’ve used other bullets under similar conditions that performed much better as far as loss of meat.

Side note my favorite bullets to use in anything besides my 358 win and 45-70 are Accubonds. Shoot well in my guns and hold together well.

I’ve shot north of a 100 white tails with many different bullets factory loaded and hand loads. Many different chamberings. In that situation it performed as I stated, since that scenario isn’t all that uncommon in my area of the country while hunting deer, especially for me as I prefer to still hunt, I won’t be using them again. They may work well in other applications, but I feel no need to experiment further with them. That’s the crowd I’m in I guess.

MM

I wasn't thinking in that direction. The example I had in mind was the 168 VLD, designed as a target bullet, which doesn't affect the fact that it has been a fine deer bullet for 308 Winchester.

Maybe Nosler didn't think the original Ballistic Tips would expand so easily.

Then I guess you're one of those guys who (for whatever reason) buy into the Campfire mantra of advice of "use whatever bullet shoots best." Which is irrelevant for 99% of big game hunting.

Due to another of these threads, the other day I added up the brands and types of bullets I've personally used on "big game" in various places in North America and around the world. Turned out there were 15 brands, and 40+ types among those brands. Have also been standing next to hunting partners who used a few other brands/types.(Oh, and have also used the .358 Winchester and .45-70 enough with various bullets to know how they work, along with AccuBonds in calibers from 6.5mm to .375, at various velocities.)

ALL of those bullets worked well, as long as the game and range was within their design limitations. Some did not work so well, when used outside their limitations.

However, how "well" they worked also depended on how the hunter felt about ideal cartrdge/bullet performance. Some believe that a certain cartridge or bullet will always "DRT" big game. Have yet to encounter either--unless the bullet broke both "front" shoulders, or hit the central nervous system.

Have also run into a lot of hunters who believe a bullet's retained weight, or whether it exits, or shoots "half inch groups all day long--if I do my part" is the ONLY solution. Have seen plenty of exceptions to those as well.

That said, have yet to see a Berger hunting bullet destroy a lot of meat UNLESS it was put into, or very close to, the shoulder of a big game animal. And have shot (and seen shot) a bunch of big game at under 100 yards with Bergers. This does NOT mean a lot meat damage it isn't possible, of course, but it also doesn't mean that a grumpy hunter who used a great long-range bullet on one animal at 60 yards means much. Sorry.

2 of the best elk killers I know highly recommend 168g berger vlds.

Based on the internet outrage, maybe I should give them a go. That damn contrarian in me.

You'll never do it. You don't have the guts!

Not sure where you’re going with this. I clearly stated it was my experience and under those conditions In which I used it, it performed thus. I was not making broad sweeping statements about whether the bullet is good or bad. My experience does mean a lot to me because I’ve used many other bullets under similar situations with similar shot placement and had much better results. Good for you that it works, I mean that by the way not in a snide way, I just don’t feel the need to try it again as I’ve had success with other bullets. Nothing grumpy about it.
What does bother me is another posters response implying ignorance/stupidity because of relating my actual experience, limited as it was.

MM