The Roman tactics were unbelievable. I’ve been reading books from history profs in the UK (apparently That’s a big deal there) writing historical fiction where they take a set of known events and insert a fictional character. The Training of a legionary soldier makes boot camp look like a picnic. According to the historians, it was freakin brutal. The front line worked on a drill system where they would bash with the shield and thrust with the gladius for a few minutes then the centurion would blow a whistle and they’d all bash real hard with the shield and step back and the second line would step up in their place. They would continue to rotate the troops like that keeping fresh guys on the front line.
Then there was the speed of their maneuvers. Using flags and whistles, they could rapidly redeploy their formations to address changes on the battle field. Here’s a video of the Korean riot police using some of their tactics. Watch that and then imagine 40,000 or more guys synchronized like that but actually trying to kill their enemy with thrown volleys of pila and darts before closing in with the shields and gladius.
The Roman tactics were unbelievable. I’ve been reading books from history profs in the UK (apparently That’s a big deal there) writing historical fiction where they take a set of known events and insert a fictional character. The Training of a legionary soldier makes boot camp look like a picnic. According to the historians, it was freakin brutal. The front line worked on a drill system where they would bash with the shield and thrust with the gladius for a few minutes then the centurion would blow a whistle and they’d all bash real hard with the shield and step back and the second line would step up in their place. They would continue to rotate the troops like that keeping fresh guys on the front line.
Then there was the speed of their maneuvers. Using flags and whistles, they could rapidly redeploy their formations to address changes on the battle field. Here’s a video of the Korean riot police using some of their tactics. Watch that and then imagine 40,000 or more guys synchronized like that but actually trying to kill their enemy with thrown volleys of pila and darts before closing in with the shields and gladius.
Billhilly,
That was a thing of beauty to watch. Thanks for posting that!! Too bad they weren’t playing for keeps...
The Roman tactics were unbelievable. I’ve been reading books from history profs in the UK (apparently That’s a big deal there) writing historical fiction where they take a set of known events and insert a fictional character. The Training of a legionary soldier makes boot camp look like a picnic. According to the historians, it was freakin brutal. The front line worked on a drill system where they would bash with the shield and thrust with the gladius for a few minutes then the centurion would blow a whistle and they’d all bash real hard with the shield and step back and the second line would step up in their place. They would continue to rotate the troops like that keeping fresh guys on the front line.
Then there was the speed of their maneuvers. Using flags and whistles, they could rapidly redeploy their formations to address changes on the battle field. Here’s a video of the Korean riot police using some of their tactics. Watch that and then imagine 40,000 or more guys synchronized like that but actually trying to kill their enemy with thrown volleys of pila and darts before closing in with the shields and gladius.
Looks like a training exercise but still pretty slick and shows how fast trained troops can move and react over decent ground.
The one thing I didn't like about the opening scene of "Gladiator" - despite the initial bombardment being pretty good - was how quickly it devolved into a melee. If things got that disorganized that quickly then something went really wrong. Those troops in the front ranks still had their pila, those would have been thrown when the enemy was 20-30 yards away to kill whoever they could or almost as good become lodged in the enemy shields to drag them down and/or allow the Romans to step on the protruding shanks and drag down the enemy shield.
An interesting tidbit of the the Roman Army's fighting technique was that the soldiers didn't stab the guy in front of them since you'd have to reach over or around your shield and break the integrity of the unit. They held off the person in front of them and then stabbed the guy being held off by the man just to their right. He had his shield engaged by the legionnaire to the right so was open for a flank strike. At least that's the way things were supposed to work. I'm sure if an arm or leg conveniently exposed itself they weren't averse to hacking at it. Kind of like the buzzsaw technique we were taught when fighting from fixed positions. Your fighting hole rampart was directly to the front so you were protected from frontal fire but you fired off to the left and right.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
The Roman tactics were unbelievable. I’ve been reading books from history profs in the UK (apparently That’s a big deal there) writing historical fiction where they take a set of known events and insert a fictional character. The Training of a legionary soldier makes boot camp look like a picnic. According to the historians, it was freakin brutal. The front line worked on a drill system where they would bash with the shield and thrust with the gladius for a few minutes then the centurion would blow a whistle and they’d all bash real hard with the shield and step back and the second line would step up in their place. They would continue to rotate the troops like that keeping fresh guys on the front line.
Then there was the speed of their maneuvers. Using flags and whistles, they could rapidly redeploy their formations to address changes on the battle field. Here’s a video of the Korean riot police using some of their tactics. Watch that and then imagine 40,000 or more guys synchronized like that but actually trying to kill their enemy with thrown volleys of pila and darts before closing in with the shields and gladius.
Looks like a training exercise but still pretty slick and shows how fast trained troops can move over decent ground.
The one thing I didn't like about the opening scene of "Gladiator" - despite the initial bombardment being pretty good - was how quickly it devolved into a melee. If things got that disorganized that quickly then something went really wrong.
An interesting tidbit of the the Roman Army's fighting technique was that the soldiers didn't stab the guy in front of them since you'd have to reach over or around your shield and break the integrity of the unit. They held off the person in front of them and then stabbed the guy being held off by the man just to their right. He had his shield engaged by the legionnaire to the right so was open for a flank strike. At least that's the way things were supposed to work. I'm sure if an arm or leg conveniently exposed itself they weren't averse to hacking at it. Kind of like the buzzsaw technique we were taught when fighting from fixed positions. Your fighting hole rampart was directly to the front so you were protected from frontal fire but you fired off to the left and right.
Here’s a pretty good little tutorial on some of the Roman’s training...
What I found really interesting is the fact that their training equipment was twice as heavy as their standard issue weapons, and the targets tiny compared to what they would actually be fighting.
Here’s a video of the Korean riot police using some of their tactics. Watch that and then imagine 40,000 or more guys synchronized like that but actually trying to kill their enemy with thrown volleys of pila and darts before closing in with the shields and gladius.
Why don't they hold their ground after they drive the mob back?
The Germanic wars lasted about 400 years, including the reign of Marcus Aurelius. Rome never did conquer the Germans and Germania was never part of the Roman empire. One thing did come out of Aurellius' invasion of Germania, depicted in the movie. The Romans took home a plague that ultimately killed 7 to 8 million people.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Here’s a video of the Korean riot police using some of their tactics. Watch that and then imagine 40,000 or more guys synchronized like that but actually trying to kill their enemy with thrown volleys of pila and darts before closing in with the shields and gladius.
Why don't they hold their ground after they drive the mob back?
Here’s a video of the Korean riot police using some of their tactics. Watch that and then imagine 40,000 or more guys synchronized like that but actually trying to kill their enemy with thrown volleys of pila and darts before closing in with the shields and gladius.
Why don't they hold their ground after they drive the mob back?
That was a training session. Pretty sure in real life there would be a lot of busted heads in that mob. Incredible respect to the S. Koreans training regimen. Can’t imagine an American unit lobbing real fire like that at the formation.
In 1961, the Koreans were having a big commie riot, at the entrance to K14 Air Base, one of the no more nukes riots . We were patrolling the DMZ, they pulled us down to help with security, The I corp commander was General Grey, a good old boy from Georgia, He lined up about 30 tanks, and in front of them was a line on G.I.s , with fixed Bayonets , then he put a line of all the Black Guys, in front of them with baseball bats as his first line of defense.
The slopes were throwing anything they could find at us, and every once in awhile they would rush our line, those Black guy's wore their asses out with their bats, there was hair, teeth, and eyeballs, all over the ground, just before dark the guy's in the rear with the gear, came up with duffel bags full of base ball grenades of C.M.D.M. and Tear gas, we stood on the Tanks and threw that Chitt into the crowd, the wind was behind us, and c.m.d.m. is real nasty stuff it makes your eye's slam shut, you mouth water, and you start puking and crapping your pants all at the same time, Didn't take but about 15 min. and the slopes cleared out, and they didn't come back for more. In the old day's we called that crowd control.
What little riot training we got consisted of troops on line holding the bayonet equipped rifle at the guard position and then advancing one step at a time, never letting the back foot pass the front one, while thrusting with each step. Start this maneuver several feet or yards in front of the "peaceful protestors" so they are confronted with a moving line of reciprocating blades, the idea being to drive them back more than to impale them. Although impaling them was a logical next step if they did not disburse.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
I did a training session with my MP unit at a base in Puerto Rico of all places. Can’t remember which one anymore. They hired local role players to act as the rioters for us. We used moving drill tactics with shields and riot batons and even though it was just training, things got pretty hot. Thought we were going to have a real riot on our hands there for a while. It was pretty good training though.
The total extent of my riot control training was in the national guard in '74. We were the backup to the state police for the Evel Knievel Snake River canyon jump fiasco. Our training consisted of marching around the NG armory with sticks for a half hour or so. We never saw any action, though.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Those barbarians in Risen needed some napalm or greek fire. A shield cover doesn't do much to stop boiling oil or fire. Hot oil burns a pretty dibilitating. Just saying .
I could also think of small clay vessels of home made lye would be pretty nasty. Essentially chemical hand grenades.
Let’s bump it forward in time slightly to Gettysburg, the Battle of Little Round Top. I had to do a paper on this battle while at BNOC. 20th Maine was told to hold the hill at all costs to keep the north’s flank secure. They had already held off countless charges and were out of ammo. Col. Chamberlain did the only thing left for him to do. I don’t know how he managed to get down that hill dragging those brass balls behind him.
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