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The best accuracy plus the best velocity = H4895 in my 350 RM’s
Which is nearly identical to the Whalen for vase capacity.


I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Originally Posted by Bugger
The best accuracy plus the best velocity = H4895 in my 350 RM’s
Which is nearly identical to the Whalen for vase capacity.


H4895 is on my list. I’ve heard it referenced several times and in various Google searches as an accurate powder for the lighter, 200 gr and under, Whelen bullets.

I may just try it next and save the CFE223 for my .233 and .308 loads.

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Originally Posted by Tannhauser
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Tannhauser
Thanks for the responses. I tried a load ladder with H335, which I had loaded around the time I posted this as H335 was listed by Nosler in their data and I had a random pound. Accuracy was best at max charge, but around 1.5 MOA at best.

Certainly “good enough” for most hunting, but I’m going to try another powder or two just because smile


Did you use a magnum primer?

I've shot a good bit of Milsurplus H335 and BLc-2. On average, BLC-2's turned in the better groups for me.

Just another option to consider..


I used a standard primer, Fed 210


H335 likes magnum primers. Even in the .223 it makes a significant difference in group size.

Last edited by antelope_sniper; 07/07/20.

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64.5 grains of CFE 223 gave me 2,720 fps with 225 Partitions. I had tried 200 gr Accubonds with others and didn’t shoot worth diddly in my 22” M700. 225 Accubonds shot a little better but not much. Partitions shot well. Happy Trails


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I actually found what I think is a good load using H4895 with the 200 gr Accubonds. that will shoot three into a group just a little over an 1" at 100 yards from my rebored .35 Whelen.

I'm probably going to try CFE223 in the 225 Accubonds next.

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Good information. I’m posting so I can easily find this again. My barrel and project have been delayed due to COVID. Order was placed to Shilen on January 28th and my 35 Whelen barrel ships this Friday. Frustrating but I get it. Hopefully it’ll be together soon enough to get it on paper and minute of critter for my October bear hunt.


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[/i]
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Tannhauser
Thanks for looking at this! I’m assuming this is a QuickLOAD output? If I’m reading it right, the max CFE223 charge would be 65.7 gr for the given parameters?


Tannhauser,

Yes, the output is from Quickload. The table of various powders I provided is about 3% below SAAMI max to allow for variations in powder lots etc. Keep in mind, since a lot of Whelens were built on odd actions, the SAAMI specss are pretty low, at around 58K PSI. If your rifle's built on a strong modern action, you may have some additional room to play. As always, if you choose to play, do so carefully.

[i]Antelope Sniper.
Thanks VERY much for the time you spent running the quickloads data. I just wanted to point out that the SAMMI max for the 35 Whelen is actually 62,000 PSI. I believe the CIP max [i]is
[/i] 58,000 though. And I am thinking the new Speer and Sierra data that give such spectacular performance in the Whelen are approaching the 62K value. Your first table above indicates about 2950 FPS for a 62K load and that is consistent with what we're seeing from those publishers, and what I ended up with using Varmint with the 200 TTSX in the thread I linked to above.

Cheers, and thanks again,
Rex
EDIT: Sorry, accidently put all that italics in there and now I can't get rid of it!


[/i][i]

Last edited by TRexF16; 08/28/20.
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Still catching up on newer powders, so I got a pound of both CFE223 & PP2000 to try in my 700 Classic Whelen per Sierra & Speer's newest manuals. CFE223 worked poorly in my rifle with 200s. Pressure peaked way before Sierra's max loads with absolute max in my rifle barely breaking 2900fps. Accuracy started out mediocre at low charges then became less than lousy at the higher charges, but seemed to be tightening again as the charge got sticky past max. Hoping the PP2000 works better.

Regarding brass... finally out of usable LC67, the new box of Hornady brass was too short for my chamber & developed that ring you see before the case separates on the 1st firing on about 1/2 of the cases, so unfired RP Whelen brass from when Remington brought out the Classic was used,. Sierra used Norma brass, Speer used Federal brass, This could be some of the difference as well as lot to lot of powder variation & 2" of barrel. It's just not worth testing to find out why.

I strongly agree with the above posters about H4895 or RL15 being optimal for speed/accuracy at c.2850fps. So far RL15 is a wee bit more accurate in my rifle but about 35fps slower than H4895 with accuracy loads. IMR 4064 is still a usable but crunchy Whelen powder as is 3031 with 200s. .


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Trex,

Glad to hear that worked out for you.
Thanks for the field report!


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I finally got my 35 Whelen the day after Labor Day. I ended using a load suggested and used by several other acquaintances. I’m running 59.5 grains of RL15, WLR primers behind a Speer 250 grain Hot Cor. I worked up to this carefully by .1 grain increments with zero signs of excessive pressure. And, yes I know what to look for after doing lots of screwing around with a 280AI. I’ve seen a few squashed primers, extractor marks, blown primers and separated case heads and felt a sticky/heavy bolt lift. None of which was observed with the Whelen. My particular rifle is a SS, Ruger M77 Hawkeye with a Shilen SS 1:14” twist super premium match grade barrel and chamber with a finished length just over 23”. I dialed it in for 100 yards as I was “breaking in” the barrel. I got shots #10, #11 and #12 into a sub MOA group. I said good enough and finished off the box of twenty by ringing the 8” gong at 250 yards eight for eight. I’m suspecting things will only get better but my time is limited for now until my October pilgrimage to bear camp. I hope I can get some blood on it then.

So, for all of you Whelen fans or 35 cal fans: 225’s or 250’s. Is there any appreciable difference in a Whelen? I’m thinking I’m set with my load and I have heard that the 250 Partition shoots and has a similar profile/shape as the Hot Cor. Not sure how true that is because I KNOW that the partitions have a tendency to reach pressure quicker than other designs.


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You can't just sub the PT for the Hot-Cor...more bearing surface, so more pressure. Found that out myself.

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Originally Posted by 5shot
You can't just sub the PT for the Hot-Cor...more bearing surface, so more pressure. Found that out myself.


I’m right there with you on that. The load information I borrowed was a load using information from several others who have used as much as 61.0+ grains of RL15 with a 250 partition in there Whelens. I’ve heard that the Hot Cor has a similar nose profile and hits relatively to the same POI as the partition. I know the partition will obturate more easily than others and will come up on pressure faster so I carefully used the data. If and when I make the switch to the partition I’ll work up to that load cautiously. I doubt there is much out there on this continent that will shrug off a 250 Hot Cor with that powder charge behind it.

Last edited by brinky72; 09/21/20.

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Originally Posted by 5shot
You can't just sub the PT for the Hot-Cor...more bearing surface, so more pressure. Found that out myself.

Interestingly, I have found the opposite over the 25+ years I have been working with the Whelen (mine's an AI, but same-same). I have found the Speer 250 HotCor to be the perfect analog to the Nosler 250 Partition in my rifle, and I use the HotCor for any initial load work with new powders before switching over to the $1.00 bullets. I get the same velocity, pressure (near as I can measure) and POI for a given charge of powder with the 250 HotCor as the 250 Partition. YMMV, I reckon.

Speaking of new powder, Power Pro 2000MR has been astounding to me in my rifle with both 225 and 250 bullets.
With 200s (Barnes TTSX) I get nearly 3000 FPS with Power Pro Varmint (2000MR is, IMO, too slow for the 200 grains).
I put a lot of research on this thread that might be helpful. You'll have to wade through a bunch of gum-flapping to get the good stuff but it's there:

My work with Power Pro Powders in the Whelen

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Well I went to your link and read the whole thing. I found that I had even replied to it in the past. I did however decline to test the 2000MR powder's effect on the three discs I had replaced in my neck out of an odd and unusual spat of self preservation.


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