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In the spirit of this thread ( https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14976569/1) how fast can we safely move 180-grain bullets in a 22" barrel? What are the best powders for that? thanks, Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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I get 2555 fps with factory Federal Premium 180 gr Nosler Partitions, 2525 fps with handloads and 180 gr Nosler Partitions.
Lilja barrel, 22" finished length, and not pushing the pressure envelope to max based on case life etc.
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Oh yeah, loading Varget, Federal 210M, Federal brass.
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RL15 will push them near 2700fps, haven't tried the newer stuff.
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You should be able to reach 2,600 with IMR-4895 in a modern bolt action rifle.
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Campfire Kahuna
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It's pretty easy to get 2650-2700 (the velocity that made the 180-grain .30-06 famous) from a 22" barrel with several powders.
It's also pretty easy to check lots of pressure-tested data these days on the Internet.
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John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Varget will get around 2,620. RL15 will go a little bit faster.
2000MR is the only powder I’ve used that will get 2,700, though undoubtedly there are a few others.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Thanks for all of the input.
I suppose the better question is whether I need 2,700 fps with a 180 in a 308. Clearly not for deer, but for bigger game animals, is it better to push a 165 Partition or 150 TTSX as fast as possible and forget about the 180?
This rifle has a 1:10 twist, FWIW.
Thanks again,
Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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Lots of good ways to skin a cat with a .308win. If your shots are inside 300yds, it's likely not going to matter which of those routes you go. A 200yd zero will get you there fine. If 300-400yds is on the menu, I would prefer the trajectories of the 150/165gr premiums, as they are easier to work with. A 150gr mono-bullet at 2,850-2,900 is actually pretty flat shooting.
Now with even more aplomb
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Some years back, I got 2630 with 180 Hornady Spire Points and a very compressed load of H4350. Accuracy was very good. However, I much prefer a 150 TTSX BT and H4895 powder for hunting.
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I've been able to get the best speed from my 16" area and 175g/ 178g match bullets with PP2000mr. My loads should go at least 2700 fps from most 22" tunes.
Bb
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Never owned a chronograph nor payed any attention to the velocity of my handloads, but I killed the biggest whitetail with a 180gr. Hornady RN over 41.5gr. of IMR 4895 in my .308 with 22" barrel.
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My wife's family moved from southern Ohio to the Klamath Falls area or Oregon when she was 12. She's 68 now. Her brother worked road construction and had always used a model 94 30-30. After a couple construction seasons he bought a BSA Majestic in 308. It was all he ever hunted with until he passed. He left it to our son and our son always left it with us because he didn't hunt. When he passed our daughter in law passed it on to us. So it means a lot to us.
Her brother's load of choice was the Remington 180 grain Core Lokt round nose. I still have the last box he bought. It has 17 rounds left in it. He kept the family in deer and elk for many years and we've used it on deer elk and moose. I've been tempted to have Etta use that ammo if she gets drawn for another cow moose tag. I have no idea what the velocity is but she says her brother was pretty effective at keeping meat in the freezer with that little rifle.
Chronographs, bore scopes and pattern boards have broke a lot of hearts.
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I've made 2575 with 45 grains IMR 4064. Haven't tried the newer stuff. 180's are a bit heavy for what I do, eastern whitetail, mostly use 165's. The 165 Hornady Interloc has stomped every deer it hit. Of course I'm not shooting 500 yards so a boattail make little difference.
Last edited by Armednfree; 07/09/20.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
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Speaking of 180 gr .308 loads; what is the real world velocity of 180 gr Remington factory Core Lokts? Asking for a friend!
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
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I have no idea what the velocity is but she says her brother was pretty effective at keeping meat in the freezer with that little rifle. I bet it didn't ruin much meat either.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Acquired my first .308 at age 15, over 50 years ago. Tried to buy a box of 180-grain factory ammo, because that's what "gun writers" advised for elk. The guy at the counter of the Beaver Pond said he'd found 150's more effective on elk, so I followed his advice.
Found he was right--and in general have used 150s (or 165-168s) in the .308 ever since. They work fine--along with 130 monolithics. My wife killed her last elk, the biggest cow either of us have ever taken, at around 200-250 yards with a 130 TTSX--which broke the left shoulder and ended up under the hide at the rear of the right ribs. The cow staggered maybe 20 yards, essentially falling all the way.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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This should give you a few ideas:
artridge : .308 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler PART SP 16331
Useable Case Capaci: 47.075 grain H2O = 3.057 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61250 psi, or 422 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 108 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
56 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 75%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 *T 108.0 49.2 3.19 2739 99.8 60911 9146 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 107.1 49.2 3.19 2690 96.2 61250 9016 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 107.1 49.2 3.19 2690 96.2 61250 9016 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 102.3 48.4 3.14 2688 98.8 61250 8789 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 102.3 47.3 3.06 2674 99.4 61250 8491 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 101.7 44.1 2.86 2666 99.6 61250 8496 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 97.0 45.9 2.98 2657 99.9 61250 8325 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 104.8 46.0 2.98 2655 99.9 61250 8314 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C 103.0 44.7 2.90 2655 99.5 61250 8394 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 102.5 44.5 2.88 2654 99.2 61250 8428 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 94.5 44.1 2.86 2652 100.0 61250 8009 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C 108.0 47.9 3.10 2648 98.1 57763 8860 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 102.5 41.6 2.70 2642 100.0 61250 7570 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 103.7 46.0 2.98 2639 98.3 61250 8448 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 98.7 42.9 2.78 2638 99.7 61250 8189 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 97.1 45.0 2.92 2638 99.5 61250 8246 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 104.3 44.5 2.89 2636 99.4 61250 8112 1.094 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 105.0 44.6 2.89 2634 100.0 61250 7784 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 99.0 43.0 2.78 2634 99.5 61250 8211 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon LVR 108.0 46.9 3.04 2631 97.5 57436 8642 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Match Rifle 99.5 44.5 2.88 2630 100.0 61250 7777 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 97.2 44.5 2.88 2630 100.0 61250 7777 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 99.5 44.5 2.88 2630 100.0 61250 7777 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 103.5 43.7 2.83 2615 99.9 61250 7884 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Precision 103.5 43.7 2.83 2615 99.9 61250 7884 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 98.8 42.0 2.72 2614 100.0 61250 7455 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 104.4 44.0 2.85 2611 99.1 61250 8069 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET *T 104.7 44.0 2.85 2611 99.1 61250 8069 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C 95.1 41.5 2.69 2610 99.9 61250 7830 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C 101.9 44.7 2.90 2610 100.0 61250 7723 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 89.8 42.5 2.76 2607 100.0 61250 7577 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 *C 99.6 42.5 2.76 2605 100.0 61250 7562 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 105.5 43.3 2.80 2604 99.2 61250 7918 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 96.6 45.2 2.93 2604 97.7 61250 8180 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 97.2 42.2 2.73 2603 99.9 61250 7751 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C 100.1 42.5 2.75 2602 99.9 61250 7828 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Win-760 and Silvertips would be cool!
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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. My wife killed her last elk,... John- Her last elk, or would she perhaps prefer you refer to it as ..”her most recent elk...”? Just seeking clarification 😉
Mathew 22: 37-39
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Acquired my first .308 at age 15, over 50 years ago. Tried to buy a box of 180-grain factory ammo, because that's what "gun writers" advised for elk. The guy at the counter of the Beaver Pond said he'd found 150's more effective on elk, so I followed his advice.
Found he was right--and in general have used 150s (or 165-168s) in the .308 ever since. They work fine--along with 130 monolithics. My wife killed her last elk, the biggest cow either of us have ever taken, at around 200-250 yards with a 130 TTSX--which broke the left shoulder and ended up under the hide at the rear of the right ribs. The cow staggered maybe 20 yards, essentially falling all the way. I remember an article from Finn that he preferred 150's in the .308, just changing bullet construction as needed.
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Speaking of 180 gr .308 loads; what is the real world velocity of 180 gr Remington factory Core Lokts? Asking for a friend! I got 2,613 in a 700 ADL with a 24" stainless barrel. Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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Acquired my first .308 at age 15, over 50 years ago. Tried to buy a box of 180-grain factory ammo, because that's what "gun writers" advised for elk. The guy at the counter of the Beaver Pond said he'd found 150's more effective on elk, so I followed his advice.
Found he was right--and in general have used 150s (or 165-168s) in the .308 ever since. They work fine--along with 130 monolithics. My wife killed her last elk, the biggest cow either of us have ever taken, at around 200-250 yards with a 130 TTSX--which broke the left shoulder and ended up under the hide at the rear of the right ribs. The cow staggered maybe 20 yards, essentially falling all the way. Thanks. I think I'll just stick with 150-168s. thanks, Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I've never been a 180/308 guy. I've always used 150's and 165's. I took my biggest whitetail, a 200lb (dressed) 4x4 with a 150 Speer HotCore (in and out). Also took my biggest elk, an old mature 7x7, with the 165 Hotcore. The last elk I shot (or latest :)) was with a Hornady 165 SP Interlock. It broke the big upper leg bone of the 6x6, penetrated both lungs, and was in the offside ribs.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Sub-MOA with too many cheap factory loads, light recoil, cheap bullets, not much muzzle blast....
Something doesn't feel right.
Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Sub-MOA with too many cheap factory loads, light recoil, cheap bullets, not much muzzle blast....
Something doesn't feel right.
Okie John 
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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I've come to own one of the small ring Swedish Gustafs 96 actions rebarrelled to 308 Win. by Kimber back when. So this string about 180 gr. in the 308 is of interest to me.
Mine is quite accurate with 150 gr. Horns at ~2600 FPS, but I've been warned by somebody who may not know his stuff to avoid higher pressures or heavier pills with this action.
Are there known upper safety limits to this action I should be aware of?
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I've come to own one of the small ring Swedish Gustafs 96 actions rebarrelled to 308 Win. by Kimber back when. So this string about 180 gr. in the 308 is of interest to me.
Mine is quite accurate with 150 gr. Horns at ~2600 FPS, but I've been warned by somebody who may not know his stuff to avoid higher pressures or heavier pills with this action.
Are there known upper safety limits to this action I should be aware of? I've had a couple of the Swedes made in the early 1940s as I recall, but I don't know the answer to the strength question. There seems to be a lot of controversy on this. I suppose most are comparing these actions to 98s.
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I've come to own one of the small ring Swedish Gustafs 96 actions rebarrelled to 308 Win. by Kimber back when. So this string about 180 gr. in the 308 is of interest to me.
Mine is quite accurate with 150 gr. Horns at ~2600 FPS, but I've been warned by somebody who may not know his stuff to avoid higher pressures or heavier pills with this action.
Are there known upper safety limits to this action I should be aware of? It sounds like you are asking if your 150 gr Hornady load is safe, and about any warnings about pressure that is too high. I am a firm believer in the KISS principle. SAAMI suggests 51,000 PSI for the Swede, so I would go with what the experts are saying. I crunched the numbers using 2600 fps and a Hornady 150 gr. SP 3031 bullet, Re 15 powder, COAL of 2.800 inches. The computer tells me that your load is mild. About 43000 PSI. Using the information I plugged in, and because it is accurate, you have a winner. This is only a computer generated estimate, but having shot a lot of 308 in competition and hunting, it will only be out 1,500 psi at best. With a 180 gr. bullet at 51,000 PSI, I would be happy with 2400 to 2500 fps.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AP39Jhm.jpg)
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Mr. Redgwell, thank you for the specifics on my 150 gr. load in the Swede action.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I've come to own one of the small ring Swedish Gustafs 96 actions rebarrelled to 308 Win. by Kimber back when. So this string about 180 gr. in the 308 is of interest to me.
Mine is quite accurate with 150 gr. Horns at ~2600 FPS, but I've been warned by somebody who may not know his stuff to avoid higher pressures or heavier pills with this action.
Are there known upper safety limits to this action I should be aware of? GrouseChaser, I doubt the low SAAMI pressure standard for the 6.5x55 has anything to do with the 96 Mauser action, which is actually just about as strong as early 98 actions. However, some "experts" have written in the past that the 96 can fail because it lacks the third "safety" locking lug that the 98 has toward the rear of the bolt. But very few people have ever seen a 98's two front lugs fail sufficiently to engage the third lug. Instead, SAAMI probably established the low 6.5x55 limit because of Norwegian Krags, because they only have a single locking lug, so are indeed a weaker action. In other words, I wouldn't worry about shooting any kind of factory .308 ammo in your rifle. And no, 180-grain .308 ammo does not generate more pressure than 150-grain ammo.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Mr. Redgwell, thank you for the specifics on my 150 gr. load in the Swede action. You're welcome. John, we'll have to agree to disagree on the pressure levels, regardless of action. Whether it's a Krag or a Mauser, better safe than sorry.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire 'Bwana
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GrouseChaser,
Another way to look at your combination is that (assuming appropriate powders of course) 2600 fps is easy cruising for the mild 300 Savage cartridge. You are using the larger capacity 308 case to generate that speed which points to even lower pressure.
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And "thanks" to you John. The 6.5x55 history is good to know, and makes sense with the Krag platform. I have modern .308s I can 'rod at the bench. I'll keep the Swede moderate (and I'm hoping, accurate).
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Don’t you guys ever get tired of results like this? [Linked Image] [Linked Image] Now I’m gonna have to go work on something hard like, I dunno, marksmanship. Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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Mr. Redgwell, thank you for the specifics on my 150 gr. load in the Swede action. You're welcome. John, we'll have to agree to disagree on the pressure levels, regardless of action. Whether it's a Krag or a Mauser, better safe than sorry. Perhaps I'm not following, but SAMII pressure limits are established for cartridges, not actions. You're quoting the 51,000 PSI for the Swedish round, BUT the rifle has been rebarreled to 308. Why would you feel the need to limit a 308 to 51,000 PSI, it is no longer a 6.5x55. The SAMII pressure limit for the 308 is 62,000 PSI. By limiting to 51,000, you're leaving a lot of performance that can be safely achieved within those established limits. Safety is always of primary concern, but SAMII has accounted for that when deciding their established pressure limits. Sure, if you want to load a 3-06 down to 30-30 performance, you can, but it is silly to do so just so you don't push it too hard.
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