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What insurance do you guys use/have in case of deadly force?

Pros and cons?

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Originally Posted by Dennis81082
What insurance do you guys use/have in case of deadly force?

Pros and cons?


CONS: It's a waste of money in most instances. Read the contract CAREFULLY before you buy. I'd even say take it to an attorney. Some common issues are:

(1) You don't always get to hire an attorney of YOUR choosing. The company probably brags that they have staff attorneys all over the country, standing by. They don't. When somebody needs a lawyer, the company searches for a lawyer in your area and contacts with him to provide services at the salary the company pays (which is quite low--like $50 per hour.) So you're likely getting a starving lawyer who needs any kind of work he can get. After all, the successful lawyers that are effective are not going to work for 1/6 of their normal rate. So, in a case where you're potentially facing a murder/homicide charge, you're getting a lawyer who took your case, because he couldn't get other paying work.

(2) If you take a plea bargain, you likely aren't covered. If the shooting you're involved in results in you facing a criminal charge, many of those insurance contracts only cover your legal fees if you're not convicted of anything. So maybe you shot a guy in the back as he was fleeing your home and you're facing some sort of aggravated assault charge. If you take a plea bargain for a misdemeanor and no jail (instead of risking several years in prison), you have to pay the company for the lawyer they've provided you at the agreed upon rate. The company might have paid the lawyer $50/hr but require you to reimburse them at $100/hr. Each company is different.

There are other concerns as well, but those are the big ones. If I need a lawyer for such a situation, I will get an attorney who knows his business that I hire myself.


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Originally Posted by Waders
Originally Posted by Dennis81082
What insurance do you guys use/have in case of deadly force?

Pros and cons?


CONS: It's a waste of money in most instances. Read the contract CAREFULLY before you buy. I'd even say take it to an attorney. Some common issues are:

(1) You don't always get to hire an attorney of YOUR choosing. The company probably brags that they have staff attorneys all over the country, standing by. They don't. When somebody needs a lawyer, the company searches for a lawyer in your area and contacts with him to provide services at the salary the company pays (which is quite low--like $50 per hour.) So you're likely getting a starving lawyer who needs any kind of work he can get. After all, the successful lawyers that are effective are not going to work for 1/6 of their normal rate. So, in a case where you're potentially facing a murder/homicide charge, you're getting a lawyer who took your case, because he couldn't get other paying work.

(2) If you take a plea bargain, you likely aren't covered. If the shooting you're involved in results in you facing a criminal charge, many of those insurance contracts only cover your legal fees if you're not convicted of anything. So maybe you shot a guy in the back as he was fleeing your home and you're facing some sort of aggravated assault charge. If you take a plea bargain for a misdemeanor and no jail (instead of risking several years in prison), you have to pay the company for the lawyer they've provided you at the agreed upon rate. The company might have paid the lawyer $50/hr but require you to reimburse them at $100/hr. Each company is different.

There are other concerns as well, but those are the big ones. If I need a lawyer for such a situation, I will get an attorney who knows his business that I hire myself.


That in a nutshell


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I have Firearms Legal Protection. https://firearmslegal.com/ They are national, but I know two of their Michigan attorneys. Both are really good. They advertise that their phones are answered by lawyers so you have attorney-client confidentiality from the beginning. I'd check to see who they have representing your local area because that is most important since that would probably be where you'd need them.

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Any suggestions on how one would "get an attorney who knows his business"? Perhaps in the Denver area.


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Originally Posted by Grady8541
Any suggestions on how one would "get an attorney who knows his business"? Perhaps in the Denver area.



I would call numerous attorneys who DO NOT have anyone in their office who practices criminal defense and ask for a referral. (If you call a law firm who has a criminal defense attorney, of course they will "highly recommend" their guy.) After about 10 calls to family lawyers, estate planners, and real estate attorneys, you should start getting the same one or two names being recommended to you.

Another method I recommend is to talk to cops and see who they recommend. Cops sometimes need legal help, either for themselves or their wives or their kids. There's always one or two lawyers who the cops use in a given geographical area. They use who they do, because that guy is likely a former prosecutor with a few local connections that help him get good deals. If a good deal can't be had, he's also good in the courtroom. But, the cops should know.

These aren't foolproof tactics for finding a lawyer, but they are way better than just taking shots in the dark.


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Pity the soul who has to use deadly force in this climate. I'm looking at CCW Safe, at its highest grade of liability.

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Much appreciated, Waders.


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FLP isn't capped IIRC.

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Having been sued for $6,000,000 and been through some of this I'll add this...

The attorney fees are only part of what you'll need covered. Expert witnesses from the medical field and in use of force will also be hired. The UofF expert who testified against me got $10,000 up front and $250 an hour after that to actually do any work. And he really wasn't even that good. I'd definitely look into what a company offers as coverage for those guys as well.

And, obviously, everything Waders said. Find out up front if you can hire your own attorney, what they'll pay, then verify with your attorney that he'll work for them and their method of payment.


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your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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FLP isn't insurance, it's a prepaid legal plan with their own lawyers. Here is their local attorney.
http://www.makowskilegal.com/

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Hate to be nosy, but I'd love to hear details on that, Blued . . .

Last edited by CaptArab; 07/11/20.
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Originally Posted by Lee_Woiteshek
Pity the soul who has to use deadly force in this climate. I'm looking at CCW Safe, at its highest grade of liability.


Not a problem in USA as long as you can set aside around $250,000 to $300,000 for legal defense.

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Much of this is subject to your location as in state or municipality. Best to be in a state with no civil liability if you have no criminal charges. So states have this others dont


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