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Is this a long integral or a short integral front sight? I think it's short integral, but would like to confirm.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by KeithNyst; 07/10/20.
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I would call that short.


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Yes, short.


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Thanks, that's on my "what the heck barrel" - 22" 30-30 on a 285xxx 99F. I showed the rifle in the past, but never clarified whether the front sight was short or long integral.

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Your gun isn't alone.

Serial number 284,689 on a 99F:

[Linked Image from pre98.com]

Serial number 285,149 on a 99G:

[Linked Image from images.gunsinternational.com]

Then 99G 286,424:

[Linked Image from cdn.rockislandauction.com]

As compared to 99G 289,942:

[Linked Image from images.proxibid.com]


And 290,107:

[Linked Image from picturearchive.gunauction.com]


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Originally Posted by Calhoun
Your gun isn't alone.

Serial number 284,689 on a 99F:
Serial number 285,149 on a 99G
Then 99G 286,424


Do you know if those are those all 22"?
Also, is this about the time Savage switched to full-threaded? (I'll have to pull mine out and see what it has).

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I suspect you’ll find it’s full thread. David’s book says change occurred about 1920. My 2nd variation Model 250-3000, ser. no. 2085XX is full thread.

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Yeah, full threaded happened long before in 1919.

I was just showing that the short integral was normal at that serial number range. The 22" barrel on a 30-30 at that serial number range is the interesting part. And while we know the barrel length was listed as 22" first in the 1927 catalog, that doesn't mean that Savage didn't make the change earlier. Heck, the #63 catalog might have come out in mid-1926 as far as I know rather than 1927.

284,639 is 250-3000 so it's a 22".
285,129 is a 300 Savage, so it's a 24".

So it appears as though the change to the long integral sight was right about 286,000. Unless Rick or somebody has more data on 99E/99F/99G in 303/30-30, we'll have to dig more to pin down the change from 20" to 22". This is about a year earlier than I thought.

Last edited by Calhoun; 07/11/20.

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Originally Posted by Calhoun
that doesn't mean that Savage didn't make the change earlier. Heck, the #63 catalog might have come out in mid-1926 as far as I know rather than 1927.
The #63 catalogs I have lists the 30-30 as 20" for the 99-E, F & G and 22" for the 99-C & D. A Jan 3, 1927 Jobber's price list has them at 22" and no longer has the 99-C or -D listed.

I think catalog # 63 had to come out sometime in late1924. All I have seen still show the Model 1914 pump with later ones having it marked 'replaced with the Model 25' - I don't have an exact date for the introduction of the Model 25 but a Jan 2, 1925 Wholesale price list has it listed. I have one with a rouges gallery cover with an undated price list still having the 1914, another rouges gallery with undated price list with the Model 1925 and a later bear cover #63 with a Model 25 insert page dated Nov 4, 1926.




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Thanks for the correction. I even looked it up in the catalogs and still got it wrong. Feeling under the weather today and obviously my brain isn't firing on all cylinders.

Late 24 or early 25 for the first #63's is my guess also. And I have a late #63 grizzly catalog with a January 3, 1927 pricelist having a May 1st update stamp on it for the 1920/26 rifle pricing, so they were still mailing #63 well into 1927.

So we have a conflict in 1927, the catalog they were mailing said the 99E/99F/99G had 20" barrels for the 303/30-30/22HP, but your jobber price list shows 22".

The oddest thing is that the May 1st, 1927 price list does list the 99C and 99D still. Surprised they didn't remove those if they were gone off the jobber's price list.

One should never trust catalogs too much.

Originally Posted by Rick99
The barrel address indicates that the rifle was assembled after the serial would indicates. Using up excess 250 blanks seems the most feasible given that the integral sight base was created prior to boring.

Barrels went from having the small integral featherweight, to long integral featherweight, to long integral medium weight, to raised ramp medium all in about a three year period of time. Seems to be a mix of what was used till old inventory was cleared out.


If yours is a 22" featherweight barrel, then I agree with Rick. It's quite possibly a barrel that was profiled for a 99G in 250-3000 and they were put on 99F's. You need to get an early 99G in 250-3000 and see if the barrels match up. grin

99F in 303 at 281,675 with 20" barrel
deerstalker has a 99G in 30-30 at 282,4xx with 20" barrel (I think I got SN right)
99F in 22HP at 284,291 with 20" barrel with short integral sight
99F in 22HP at 285,512 with 20" barrel and short integral sight


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Question for the machinists-how did they make the integral front sight on the barrel?


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Originally Posted by Calhoun


Originally Posted by Rick99
The barrel address indicates that the rifle was assembled after the serial would indicates. Using up excess 250 blanks seems the most feasible given that the integral sight base was created prior to boring.

Barrels went from having the small integral featherweight, to long integral featherweight, to long integral medium weight, to raised ramp medium all in about a three year period of time. Seems to be a mix of what was used till old inventory was cleared out.


If yours is a 22" featherweight barrel, then I agree with Rick. It's quite possibly a barrel that was profiled for a 99G in 250-3000 and they were put on 99F's. You need to get an early 99G in 250-3000 and see if the barrels match up. grin

99F in 303 at 281,675 with 20" barrel
deerstalker has a 99G in 30-30 at 282,4xx with 20" barrel (I think I got SN right)
99F in 22HP at 284,291 with 20" barrel with short integral sight
99F in 22HP at 285,512 with 20" barrel and short integral sight


I agree with Rick, but will also throw out the possibility that the Style 6 barrel address may have started earlier than noted in Murray's book. My 99F 285394 30-30 and a 99G 300 286587 I have a pic of both have a Style 6 barrel stamp. Any other Style 6s seen between these and the 295k start noted by Murray for Style 6?

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Just photographed a bunch of photos of front sights with a tape measure. My internet which uses cell phone signal is too slow to load the pics. Probably due to all the tourists (terrorists) in town for the Green River Mountain Man Rendevzous. They are starting to want to move here because of how screwed up things are where they live. They of course will want to change things here to what they had at home because they are too stupid to realize that li


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Just photographed a bunch of front sights with a tape measure. My internet which uses cell phone signal is too slow to load the pics. Probably due to all the tourists (terrorists) in town for the Green River Mountain Man Rendevzous. They are starting to want to move here because of how screwed up things are where they live. They of course will want to change things here to what they had at home because they are too stupid to realize that the liberal giveaways and restricting rights is what screwed up things where they are coming from.
I'm really having trouble with the internet or my new computer. Don't know which. That's how this got posted twice while I was still working on this post. It went away in the middle of the word liberal.

Last edited by wyo1895; 07/12/20.

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Originally Posted by wyo1895
My internet which uses cell phone signal is too slow to load the pics.


David, Starlink is in the process of launching low earth orbit satellites to provide high-speed internet to rural areas. They will likely start beta testing later this year and go commercial next year. It will be fast and affordable (likely under $100/mo) and hopefully free of monthly data caps. I'm currently on satellite internet that has a 50GB/month data cap with slow response (ping time over 600ms) and expensive.

Also, you can use Microsoft Paint (stardard with MS Windows) to reduce the file size of pictures which makes it much faster to upload and still retain decent oniline viewing quality. I used Paint to reduce this picture of the barrel (subject of this post) by 25% and it reduced the file size from 3.5 megabytes to 330kilobyites (almost 10 times smaller).
[Linked Image]


Last edited by KeithNyst; 07/12/20.
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I’ve only seen three types of milled front sights. The most common is the one Savage used starting in the late 20s and lasting through about the late 50s. It’s the dovetail ramp. The other two are what I call split posts. One is the subject sight and the other I don’t have a picture of. But I think it was used only for a little in the early 20s and, to me, it looks like it was put on backwards. Again, sorry I don’t have a picture of the funny looking backwards split front post sight, but that’s my technical term for it.

Does anyone know how Savage milled these sights? I think that would be a fascinating topic for us engineering nerds. A couple months ago I asked this on the Krag Collectors forum. That is I asked how the split front post Krag sight was installed. Turns out Springfield Armory dovetailed a chunk of steel into the barrel blank early in the machining process and then milled it into shape. I don’t see a seam on 99 barrels like you do with Krags, but as they say, “never say never.” Any thoughts?


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Originally Posted by S99VG
I’ve only seen three types of milled front sights. The most common is the one Savage used starting in the late 20s and lasting through about the late 50s. It’s the dovetail ramp. The other two are what I call split posts. One is the subject sight and the other I don’t have a picture of. But I think it was used only for a little in the early 20s and, to me, it looks like it was put on backwards. Again, sorry I don’t have a picture of the funny looking backwards split front post sight, but that’s my technical term for it.

Does anyone know how Savage milled these sights? I think that would be a fascinating topic for us engineering nerds. A couple months ago I asked this on the Krag Collectors forum. That is I asked how the split front post Krag sight was installed. Turns out Springfield Armory dovetailed a chunk of steel into the barrel blank early in the machining process and then milled it into shape. I don’t see a seam on 99 barrels like you do with Krags, but as they say, “never say never.” Any thoughts?


I think this is a pic of the backward one you refer to:

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"I think this is a pic of the backward one you refer to"

And that one was soldered on. The early ones are attached closer to the end of the brl than typical and makes the brl look as if cut off. I think this is all in David's book. Around 1905-1913.

Last edited by Rick99; 07/12/20.

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Originally Posted by KeithNyst
Originally Posted by S99VG
I’ve only seen three types of milled front sights. The most common is the one Savage used starting in the late 20s and lasting through about the late 50s. It’s the dovetail ramp. The other two are what I call split posts. One is the subject sight and the other I don’t have a picture of. But I think it was used only for a little in the early 20s and, to me, it looks like it was put on backwards. Again, sorry I don’t have a picture of the funny looking backwards split front post sight, but that’s my technical term for it.

Does anyone know how Savage milled these sights? I think that would be a fascinating topic for us engineering nerds. A couple months ago I asked this on the Krag Collectors forum. That is I asked how the split front post Krag sight was installed. Turns out Springfield Armory dovetailed a chunk of steel into the barrel blank early in the machining process and then milled it into shape. I don’t see a seam on 99 barrels like you do with Krags, but as they say, “never say never.” Any thoughts?


I think this is a pic of the backward one you refer to:


That would be the one.


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my 1899H serial #79.7xx has the backward looking sight. It's real close to the muzzle.
The internet is still too slow for me to post pics. If all those tourists weren't busy texting instead of looking at the Rendezvous activities and the scenery I could post some pics. Maybe later tonight.
I may be looking into that starlight thing Keith. I wonder if I'll be able to use it anywhere. About the only good thing about Verizon's MIFI is that I can use it securely anywhere there is a cell signal.


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With Savage never say never.
For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you.
[email protected]

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