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Anderson BCG after 200 rounds



vs. Daniels Defense BCG after 7000 rounds.



But Parts is Parts.....right?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Good parts means not buying off the bargain basement sale rack.

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The last 5.56 AR I've built has a DD BCG and Barrel, the .223 wylde-chambered WOA SPR barreled rifle has a DD BCG, and I also have a DDM4 V7lw. I've come to trust their products.

I wouldn't hesitate to substitute the BCGs with a BCM.

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For those of you who want the abridged addition,

The Anderson had 200 rounds through it and bolt had already stretched at the pivot pin hole to the point it was about 300 rounds from failure.

After 7000 rounds the tolerances on the DD were still tight, and the biggest issue was some slight pitting on the end of the firing pin.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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He also stated that each was a sample of one, but I'd still expect better service/quality from a random BCM/DD than a random Anderson.

The parts with tighter QC standards will cost more, but with critical components, buy once/cry once.

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Yes it makes sense but one does not know how the anderson was treated/lubed.

I have several bcg's from different folks and so far there has not been any wear or crap going on.

The first one i got was made back in the 70's and other than a cleaning every now and then as well as making sure it was lubed up,nothing has been wore out or changed so far.

When playing with the one piece gas ring i found out that it made no difference lubed or not they just suck.

Never heard of a bolt being soft enough to egg the pin hole.

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Thanks, nice videos. I really liked the gauges.

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Originally Posted by plainsman456
Yes it makes sense but one does not know how the Anderson was treated/lubed.

I have several bcg's from different folks and so far there has not been any wear or crap going on.

The first one i got was made back in the 70's and other than a cleaning every now and then as well as making sure it was lubed up,nothing has been wore out or changed so far.

When playing with the one piece gas ring i found out that it made no difference lubed or not they just suck.

Never heard of a bolt being soft enough to egg the pin hole.


According to the owner of the Anderson BGC, he only had about 200 rounds through it, so regardless of how it was treated, or lubed or not, that's just unacceptable.

If you ever read the thread on AR15.com from they guy who runs the machinegun business in Las Vegas he talked about bolts breaking in exactly the same manner as what was happening to this Anderson bolt, but with something like a DD bolt, that usually didn't happen until around 60,000 rounds. In other words, it's a known point of failure, but with quality parts required a round count most casual shooters will never reach.

That Anderson bolt reminds me of the bolts from Radical that were breaking around the 500 round mark. I have to wonder if these parts are of similar origin.

I have a cheap "AR-Stoner" upper from Midway with a BGC in it that looks very similar to the Anderson in the video. Needless to say, last night I tore it apart and checked it out. The pivot pin hole on it's still round, but it only has a few hundred rounds through it. It doesn't get used much since it's now a spare, but if it does see much use, I'll be keeping my eye on it.


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I was taught that quality parts were just what you used. Back in the day, you had Colt and Armalite producing good parts and Bushmaster, dpms, later on Rock River making okay parts Olympic Arms, PWA, Model One sales, M&A Parts were a crapshoot and then companies like Hesse making pure crap.

Then came more companies making good parts like LMT, DD, BCM and the market exploded. In the past 5 years more companies have popped up making or buying the cheapest parts known to man and a plethora of satisfied customers that swear that "parts is parts" and they know cause their $400 AR has been flawless in the thousands (which truthfully is a hundred or two) of rounds they've put down range on their contractor jobs. I remember when a guy who went by hipfiredgun was all over arfcom talking up a certain companies piston guns, he and his special forces buddies just loved em. That company grew pretty fast with glowing reviews from everywhere until it was discovered hipfiredgun was an employee of said company with no SF buddies.

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

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Originally Posted by TWR
I was taught that quality parts were just what you used. Back in the day, you had Colt and Armalite producing good parts and Bushmaster, dpms, later on Rock River making okay parts Olympic Arms, PWA, Model One sales, M&A Parts were a crapshoot and then companies like Hesse making pure crap.

Then came more companies making good parts like LMT, DD, BCM and the market exploded. In the past 5 years more companies have popped up making or buying the cheapest parts known to man and a plethora of satisfied customers that swear that "parts is parts" and they know cause their $400 AR has been flawless in the thousands (which truthfully is a hundred or two) of rounds they've put down range on their contractor jobs. I remember when a guy who went by hipfiredgun was all over arfcom talking up a certain companies piston guns, he and his special forces buddies just loved em. That company grew pretty fast with glowing reviews from everywhere until it was discovered hipfiredgun was an employee of said company with no SF buddies.

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

This is a good thread. Probably a reminder that we need to be checking our parts on a regular basis. Regardless of who they are made by or how many rounds we think we have through them.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
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Same guy tested a Toolcraft bcg and it was solid, FWIW

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Let me ask a question. If a BCG is “mil-spec”, would they not all be comparable? I can see more money might get you a better part but $200-300 BCG seems to be kinda expensive.
Since I assume the military buys mil-spec BCGs, do they fail every 200 rounds? Was that Anderson an anomaly?
I’m new to this and sometimes it is confusing to read about early failures like this. There has to be a happy medium to buying an AR. Pretty sure most people can’t afford the best, but why wouldn’t mil-spec work?

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper


According to the owner of the Anderson BGC, he only had about 200 rounds through it, so regardless of how it was treated, or lubed or not, that's just unacceptable.



Yep; good vids, AS.

The Anderson BCG sells for $80; the Daniel Defense BCG sells for $195...............most times with a differential like that there's a reason, maybe other times, not so much.

I'm in manufacturing, & heat treating to correct specs & machining to tight tolerance levels, lot to lot, day in day out, costs more money than operating to looser specs or tolerances or more lot to lot variability.

Not saying that's necessarily the case between Anderson & DD, but HT on bolts, whether it's made from SAE 9310 or Carpenter 158 is critical & expensive to maintain certs & quality, lot to lot.

The results of the evaluated BCG's, speaks volumes about process consistency & QC.

MM

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Originally Posted by TWR


If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.


It's hard to find a much truer statement...........................AR parts are no exception.

MM

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Originally Posted by SS336
Let me ask a question. If a BCG is “mil-spec”, would they not all be comparable? I can see more money might get you a better part but $200-300 BCG seems to be kinda expensive.
Since I assume the military buys mil-spec BCGs, do they fail every 200 rounds? Was that Anderson an anomaly?
I’m new to this and sometimes it is confusing to read about early failures like this. There has to be a happy medium to buying an AR. Pretty sure most people can’t afford the best, but why wouldn’t mil-spec work?


Mil-spec, as the term is thrown around, does not necessarily mean mil-spec................for instance a 9310 bolt might be called "mil-spec" & it might actually be that, dimensionally, at least, but the mil-spec for a bolt calls for the material to be Carpenter 158, not 9310.

And you don't need to spend $200+ on a quality BCG either; Geiselle, Sionics, BCM, Centurion Arms, Rubber City Armory.................just to name a few, all make a high quality BCG & all stand behind their product, some with a lifetime warranty.

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This is why I use Whiteoak for parts... very high quality

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Thanks for some clarification, MM.

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The term mil spec comes from the Technical Data Package or TDP. It’s what the military demands it’s guns to be built to. It includes testing of parts and which materials parts are built with as well as assembly procedures.

Commercial companies are not held to any standard and use the term mil spec very loosely. Choose a BCG that runs $59 off eBay and don’t expect it to meet any Military standards.

On the other end spending $400 on an enhanced carrier with the latest coating on it might get you a better part or it might make the seller a big bonus. Reputable parts can be affordable.

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Originally Posted by TWR
The term mil spec comes from the Technical Data Package or TDP. It’s what the military demands it’s guns to be built to. It includes testing of parts and which materials parts are built with as well as assembly procedures.

Commercial companies are not held to any standard and use the term mil spec very loosely. Choose a BCG that runs $59 off eBay and don’t expect it to meet any Military standards.

On the other end spending $400 on an enhanced carrier with the latest coating on it might get you a better part or it might make the seller a big bonus. Reputable parts can be affordable.

I'll let you know how my RTBA BCG holds up. As of right now, it is holding up better than a Fail Zero BCG. At least the NIB is better. One thing I know about the RTBA is it gets very good reviews and is held to tight tolerances, said to "meet or exceed military specifications". According to RTBA. Here are the specs:

Coated Inside & Out With UCT's EXO NiB
Milspec Carpenter No. 158® Steel (Bolt)
8620 Tool Steel (Carrier)
Mil-Spec Extractor Spring, black extractor insert, Viton O-Ring
Tool Steel Extractor
Shrouded Firing Pin
Mil-Spec Gas Key (4130 Steel) attached with Grade 8 hardware and Properly staked
Bolt is shot Peened and MPI
Carrier is polished before plating for increased lubricity
Limited Lifetime Warranty


I know for a fact that this BCG has been ran for at least 5,000 rounds, since I've bought it about 3 years ago. I fired off the rifle 324 times on one range trip a couple weeks ago. I've never had any issues with it, since day one:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

From day one, I was getting excellent accuracy and I've never had one malfunction with this rifle:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Its actually one of my favorite AR's. Its the one I reach for when we have local AR shoots. It points and balances perfectly for me, in all positions. I figure if the BCG is going to fail, it will do so in a lot more rounds than it has on it now, as it still looks new. Even after 5,000 rounds on it...This BCG also has a "lifetime warranty" according to the manufacture, but who knows what that means? My Noveske BCG also seems to be a good one, but I forget who manufactures them for Noveske. My new Colt BCG is nice, but how much better is it than all my other BCG's?

Here's another video you guys can watch. Chris does a good job showing how to clean and more importantly inspect the BCG:
Detailed dissassembly, cleaning and inspection


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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