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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Hastings
I really like Jesus and believe he was who he said he was. You might do well to avoid the writings ascribed to Paul. They contradict Jesus (Yeshua)


I have read this posted by different posters and have become very curious. If you or someone who agrees with this would post two or three contradictions Apostle Paul makes in relation to Jesus I would really appreciate it.

In short. Jesus and Paul differ on salvation. Jesus made very clear that the law, works, and conduct were vital and that REPENTANCE was vital. Paul tried to do away with Jesus' teaching and preach belief and faith and completely dismissed works and the law. Paul also came up with some pretty fantastic tales of being taken up to some level of heaven and that 3 versions of meeting Yeshua out in the boondocks on the road to Damascus. Paul doesn't quote Jesus' eathly teachings. He was intent on setting up an organization with himself as leader. That is, if he really wrote all that correspondence. Check out the web site Jesuswordsonly.com with a open mind. It won't hurt to question a little and open the door a little.


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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Hastings
I really like Jesus and believe he was who he said he was. You might do well to avoid the writings ascribed to Paul. They contradict Jesus (Yeshua)


I have read this posted by different posters and have become very curious. If you or someone who agrees with this would post two or three contradictions Apostle Paul makes in relation to Jesus I would really appreciate it.

In short. Jesus and Paul differ on salvation. Jesus made very clear that the law, works, and conduct were vital and that REPENTANCE was vital. Paul tried to do away with Jesus' teaching and preach belief and faith and completely dismissed works and the law. Paul also came up with some pretty fantastic tales of being taken up to some level of heaven and that 3 versions of meeting Yeshua out in the boondocks on the road to Damascus. Paul doesn't quote Jesus' eathly teachings. He was intent on setting up an organization with himself as leader. That is, if he really wrote all that correspondence. Check out the web site Jesuswordsonly.com with a open mind. It won't hurt to question a little and open the door a little.


I guess you missed where Paul teaches us to work out our salvation.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Hastings
I really like Jesus and believe he was who he said he was. You might do well to avoid the writings ascribed to Paul. They contradict Jesus (Yeshua)


I have read this posted by different posters and have become very curious. If you or someone who agrees with this would post two or three contradictions Apostle Paul makes in relation to Jesus I would really appreciate it.

In short. Jesus and Paul differ on salvation. Jesus made very clear that the law, works, and conduct were vital and that REPENTANCE was vital. Paul tried to do away with Jesus' teaching and preach belief and faith and completely dismissed works and the law. Paul also came up with some pretty fantastic tales of being taken up to some level of heaven and that 3 versions of meeting Yeshua out in the boondocks on the road to Damascus. Paul doesn't quote Jesus' eathly teachings. He was intent on setting up an organization with himself as leader. That is, if he really wrote all that correspondence. Check out the web site Jesuswordsonly.com with a open mind. It won't hurt to question a little and open the door a little.


I guess you missed where Paul teaches us to work out our salvation.

Huh?


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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Hastings
I really like Jesus and believe he was who he said he was. You might do well to avoid the writings ascribed to Paul. They contradict Jesus (Yeshua)


I have read this posted by different posters and have become very curious. If you or someone who agrees with this would post two or three contradictions Apostle Paul makes in relation to Jesus I would really appreciate it.

In short. Jesus and Paul differ on salvation. Jesus made very clear that the law, works, and conduct were vital and that REPENTANCE was vital. Paul tried to do away with Jesus' teaching and preach belief and faith and completely dismissed works and the law. Paul also came up with some pretty fantastic tales of being taken up to some level of heaven and that 3 versions of meeting Yeshua out in the boondocks on the road to Damascus. Paul doesn't quote Jesus' eathly teachings. He was intent on setting up an organization with himself as leader. That is, if he really wrote all that correspondence. Check out the web site Jesuswordsonly.com with a open mind. It won't hurt to question a little and open the door a little.



Paul claimed his inspiration and revelation were from Jesus. I don’t believe there are any other writers of the Bible claiming that type of authority.

Paul wrote:
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:11-12

Peter also said Paul’s writings were inspired scripture in 2 Peter 3:15-16.

So Paul is either a true apostle or a false apostle—no middle ground. And the Bible is either all true or all false.

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Originally Posted by WhiteTail48
And the Bible is either all true or all false.

I’m sure glad that there are so many people who reject that opinion. To suggest that another...should they choose to follow Jesus...is now also required to accept that dinosaurs actually went on the ark with Noah and his family and all of the other animals of the world is a bit much for a lot of folks. Understandably so.


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Originally Posted by WhiteTail48
It’s tragic that more people don’t experience the amazing life-changing love of Jesus and the grace, wisdom, and power of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing greater in this life than believing in Jesus Christ.

The world can’t accept the spirit of truth because it doesn’t see, hear, or know him. For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know him. God was pleased through the foolishness to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:21

Neither height nor depth nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:39.

It’s so easy to be saved, and it’s free. If you confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you’ll be saved. Romans 10:9





You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by WhiteTail48
Peter also said Paul’s writings were inspired scripture in 2 Peter 3:15-16.

Except "Peter" didn't say that. 2nd Peter wasn't written by the same person as first. Modern Biblical Scholars accept both as pseudepigraphical, i.e. later forgeries.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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I thought y'all were discussing evolution, coelacanths and such?

No wonder this is going on for so long.


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In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by WhiteTail48
And the Bible is either all true or all false.

I’m sure glad that there are so many people who reject that opinion. To suggest that another...should they choose to follow Jesus...is now also required to accept that dinosaurs actually went on the ark with Noah and his family and all of the other animals of the world is a bit much for a lot of folks. Understandably so.


Do you use faith to accept Jesus as historical? How did you decide God didn't protect His Word from the beginning?


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Originally Posted by WhiteTail48
[quote=Hastings]Paul claimed his inspiration and revelation were from Jesus. I don’t believe there are any other writers of the Bible claiming that type of authority.
Paul wrote: But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:11-12
Peter also said Paul’s writings were inspired scripture in 2 Peter 3:15-16.

So Paul is either a true apostle or a false apostle—no middle ground. And the Bible is either all true or all false.

A document can have both truth and falsity in it. And Paul does say a lot that is plausible and true along with his false claims. So does almost every court witness that takes the stand to commit perjury and sell a lie. If you can reconcile Paul and Jesus you may not be paying close enough attention. As to the ending of 2nd Peter we have no idea what Peter knew of Paul at the time he wrote or even if Peter wrote the last few verses. I respectfully disagree that the bible has to be all true or all false but I do agree that Paul is either a true apostle or a false apostle. In the case of Paul vs Jesus, I take Jesus. If you are blessed with decent reading comprehension dig into the subject and forget your long time investment in your previous beliefs. Hanging onto an investment only because you've owned it a long time is not a good strategy. I don't think the Creator would mind you checking up on the veracity of those who claim to speak for him. He probably would expect you to be careful. Jesus warned that many would come in his name. Thank you for your time. Dave


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Originally Posted by Hastings
I respectfully disagree that the bible has to be all true or all false...
Same here. I think one can both wrestle with honest questions ‘and’ embrace a genuine faith in God. I believe God understands our questions. I believe He welcomes our questions, and I am convinced that God would rather have us yell at Him than walk away from Him. When one hits the crisis of belief, don’t deny your doubts. And don’t run from God. One can let their doubts drive them to continue to embrace, even when one wrestles with God.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by WhiteTail48
And the Bible is either all true or all false.

I’m sure glad that there are so many people who reject that opinion. To suggest that another...should they choose to follow Jesus...is now also required to accept that dinosaurs actually went on the ark with Noah and his family and all of the other animals of the world is a bit much for a lot of folks. Understandably so.

Being as it would be impossible to flood the earth with all the ice and water available I wonder if the Noah saga didn't possibly come from an oral history of a people that escaped the flooding of the Black Sea as the ice age ended and the ocean poured through the Bosphorus inundating the lower country. Maybe the oral history of the people remembered an escape to the mountains with the animals they could drive ahead of them.


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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Idk Hastings. Doesn’t really matter to me. Believing literally in Noah’s ark is not essential to one’s salvation. Nor is it essential to following Jesus and His teachings.


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Originally Posted by antlers
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Idk Hastings. Doesn’t really matter to me. Believing literally in Noah’s ark is not essential to one’s salvation. Nor is it essential to following Jesus and His teachings.

Agreed


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by WhiteTail48
Peter also said Paul’s writings were inspired scripture in 2 Peter 3:15-16.

Except "Peter" didn't say that. 2nd Peter wasn't written by the same person as first. Modern Biblical Scholars accept both as pseudepigraphical, i.e. later forgeries.


All need to do their own study and come to their own conclusions. Those who blindly take others opinions as “the gospel” will likely never to have developed their own understanding of the subject at hand. Gotta do your own homework or you will only be as smart as what some other fella told you. Not good enough for me and should not be good enough for anyone else.

In the Jewish writings of the day, apparently there was a phrase....”...a man’s agent is as himself....”

Consider this.... a honcho is in the States and needs to communicate something to workforce in a foreign land. He phones and communicates the information to an on-site manager, who writes it down and then sends out a memo in behalf of the honcho..... but in three different languages..... with at least two interpreters involved. So the question is this: Is the honcho the author of the memo?

Another example, perhaps a prisoner has been beaten and his hand is crippled so he cannot write a letter. So, he calls a scribe and tells him what he wants to say. The scribe writes it down. So, who is the author of the letter? The prisoner or the scribe?


Edit to add: Once I was in the main church square in Lima, Peru. There were literally dozens of typists there, set up with their stands, typewriters and paper. People would go the them and dictate letters.... both personal and business letters.... the guy would listen, type....listen, type some more.... you get the idea. Now some of these folks simply did not have typewriter or means to create a letter. Some did not know how to read or write, but wanted a letter written so:they could communicate.

Last edited by TF49; 07/12/20. Reason: Left out a word

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Originally Posted by TF49
All need to do their own study and come to their own conclusions. Those who blindly take others opinions as “the gospel” will likely never to have developed their own understanding of the subject at hand. Gotta do your own homework or you will only be as smart as what some other fella told you. Not good enough for me and should not be good enough for anyone else.
Agreed


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When something is spoken in Aramaic or Hebrew and later written down from 2nd hand memory in Greek and later translated into Latin and archaic English there are bound to be a few difficulties involved in getting things exact. Not to mention the editing by those with a vested interest. As a side note we all know how several witnesses to the same event can give different versions with no intent at deception.


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I feel ya’. The main thing is to see to it that the main thing stays the main thing.


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Originally Posted by Hastings
When something is spoken in Aramaic or Hebrew and later written down from 2nd hand memory in Greek and later translated into Latin and archaic English there are bound to be a few difficulties involved in getting things exact. Not to mention the editing by those with a vested interest. As a side note we all know how several witnesses to the same event can give different versions with no intent at deception.



Sure, but the issue is..... who is the author?


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Please give us three of Paul's false claims. Claims you can back up with facts.


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