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Originally Posted by mathman
I handload cartridges using methods/tools from basic to somewhat advanced, all according to what I want to accomplish at the time.

With a bit of experience, or guidance from someone who has been around the bench a few laps, you pick up tricks of the trade. For example, for a wide class of cartridges all you need if you want to measure shoulder bump is an empty piece of 40 S&W brass. Put the 40 case over the mouth of your 308, 30-06 or the like. Measure the whole shebang. Size your case. Measure again the same way. The difference is the bump, no fancy gauge needed.


Nice piece of information. Did not know about the 40 S&W trick. I have used bolt spacers to measure headspace. I did pick up the hornady set, and use them.

I like measuring because I am type A that way.


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Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

I happily and unapologetically use one of these. I like to know if I am bumping .001, .002, .003 or whatever. I may do it for reasons beyond copping a feel.... Meaning, I may do it even if not "tight" in the chamber such as making a cartridge that'll work in multiple rifles, eg, not seeking a crush fit. I also prefer 8" caliper because of the added length of these gizmos as well as the ones that sit on the olgive. I like them so much in fact I find it unnecessary to own a 40. Nor do I think it is rocket surgeryish, just a simple tool of the trade.

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Agree 100%, those that do it by feel have no idea if they are bumping .001" or .010"

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Originally Posted by boatanchor

Agree 100%, those that do it by feel have no idea if they are bumping .001" or .010"


My loading process was much better before I had the tools to measure things laugh

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Originally Posted by boatanchor
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

I happily and unapologetically use one of these. I like to know if I am bumping .001, .002, .003 or whatever. I may do it for reasons beyond copping a feel.... Meaning, I may do it even if not "tight" in the chamber such as making a cartridge that'll work in multiple rifles, eg, not seeking a crush fit. I also prefer 8" caliper because of the added length of these gizmos as well as the ones that sit on the olgive. I like them so much in fact I find it unnecessary to own a 40. Nor do I think it is rocket surgeryish, just a simple tool of the trade.

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Agree 100%, those that do it by feel have no idea if they are bumping .001" or .010"

This is doubtlessly 100% correct. Nor do they (we) care how much we are bumping it. We are sizing the brass to a perfect fit in that particular chamber. It matters not how oversized it formally was, only that after a pass through the optimally adjusted full length sizer, it is now just right.
So not knowing how much you are bumping back has no bearing on how nicely you are preparing that case to be fired in that rifle, and insuring its long life, assuming one uses the process I described earlier in the thread. (As far as I know ;o)

Cheers,
Rex

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I have been reloading rifle cartridges for 35 years and simply follow the full length sizing instructions on the dies which are all basically the same. Ram to top of press struck, Screw in die to touch top of shell holder, set 1/8-14 turn deeper.

I have had exactly 2 problems with not enough sizing. I do not understand all the fuss about "bumping" the shoulder.


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Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

I happily and unapologetically use one of these. I like to know if I am bumping .001, .002, .003 or whatever. I may do it for reasons beyond copping a feel.... Meaning, I may do it even if not "tight" in the chamber such as making a cartridge that'll work in multiple rifles, eg, not seeking a crush fit. I also prefer 8" caliper because of the added length of these gizmos as well as the ones that sit on the olgive. I like them so much in fact I find it unnecessary to own a 40. Nor do I think it is rocket surgeryish, just a simple tool of the trade.

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This, or an RCBS case Mic for a couple of calibers.


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Originally Posted by boatanchor
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer

I happily and unapologetically use one of these. I like to know if I am bumping .001, .002, .003 or whatever. I may do it for reasons beyond copping a feel.... Meaning, I may do it even if not "tight" in the chamber such as making a cartridge that'll work in multiple rifles, eg, not seeking a crush fit. I also prefer 8" caliper because of the added length of these gizmos as well as the ones that sit on the olgive. I like them so much in fact I find it unnecessary to own a 40. Nor do I think it is rocket surgeryish, just a simple tool of the trade.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Agree 100%, those that do it by feel have no idea if they are bumping .001" or .010"

That's strange....I know how much I am bumping back by how much I adjust my sizing die. The difference is the chamber. Every chamber is different in shape, particularly around the shoulder of the case. There may be a standardized datum line measurement, but that doesn't mean you headspace off of it when the gun gets fired. Depending on the vagueries of your chamber, you may be headspacing right on the point of the shoulder, or right at the shoulder-neck juncture. So YOU don't really have any idea how much YOU are bumping. That is why I go by feel, and move my die downward a couple thousandths of an inch at a time. If a round chambered tight at one setting, and chambered freely at the next adjustment, I have, at most, .002" headspace leeway, and likely about .001". See, if you use your brain properly, it is the best tool you possess.


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Originally Posted by Mike_Dettorre
I have been reloading rifle cartridges for 35 years and simply follow the full length sizing instructions on the dies which are all basically the same. Ram to top of press struck, Screw in die to touch top of shell holder, set 1/8-14 turn deeper.

I have had exactly 2 problems with not enough sizing. I do not understand all the fuss about "bumping" the shoulder.



The generic instructions mostly lead to too much sizing.

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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by Mike_Dettorre
I have been reloading rifle cartridges for 35 years and simply follow the full length sizing instructions on the dies which are all basically the same. Ram to top of press struck, Screw in die to touch top of shell holder, set 1/8-14 turn deeper.

I have had exactly 2 problems with not enough sizing. I do not understand all the fuss about "bumping" the shoulder.



The generic instructions mostly lead to too much sizing.

And thus reduced brass life. The only time setting the dies generically works best is if you are loading for something other than a bolt action. I can see where that would be best for a semi auto or a pump.


I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by Mike_Dettorre
I have been reloading rifle cartridges for 35 years and simply follow the full length sizing instructions on the dies which are all basically the same. Ram to top of press struck, Screw in die to touch top of shell holder, set 1/8-14 turn deeper.

I have had exactly 2 problems with not enough sizing. I do not understand all the fuss about "bumping" the shoulder.



The generic instructions mostly lead to too much sizing.

THIS^^^
I've got dies that would bump 0-.010 if I set them up like the instructions, one die set I had to take .010 off the top of the shell holder to get it to bump .002.
You can "feel" .002 to each his own though.

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Too much sizing...??? I dunno, my rounds always chamber, my worst rifle shoots 1 1/8 with its hunting load.

Brass life? - I don't think I have ever loaded a piece of brass more than 5 times. I lose the brass by then.


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Well, there it is then. If you don't care you're good to go with the factory instructions.


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Because i several rifles in the same caliber i just reset the brass to new size.

Other rifles get the same treatment but each rifle is a critter unto it's self.

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Originally Posted by Mike_Dettorre
I have been reloading rifle cartridges for 35 years and simply follow the full length sizing instructions on the dies which are all basically the same. Ram to top of press struck, Screw in die to touch top of shell holder, set 1/8-14 turn deeper.

I have had exactly 2 problems with not enough sizing. I do not understand all the fuss about "bumping" the shoulder.



Brass life


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Originally Posted by mathman


The generic instructions mostly lead to too much sizing.


Best post in this thread.

Most good bolt guns with a well cut chamber will re-chamber fired brass, as is, & really don't need the shoulder bumped at all until at such a time as it won't re-chamber.

That's why neck sizing works......................

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I use the Redding shellholder kits that allow the die to touch the shellholder while still allowing control of the shoulder bump, or lack of it if that is what you want. As the one poster noted, a neck sized case will be hard to chamber after a few firings, then start with the 0.010 thicker shellholder. If that doesn't allow easy chambering, use the 0.008, and so forth till the crush fit almost, or completely disappears. Write in your die box which shellholder to use so you don't forget.
You are then bumping the shoulder a maximum of 0.002" which I can live with for hunting ammo.

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Originally Posted by Blacktailer
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by mathman
I handload cartridges using methods/tools from basic to somewhat advanced, all according to what I want to accomplish at the time.

With a bit of experience, or guidance from someone who has been around the bench a few laps, you pick up tricks of the trade. For example, for a wide class of cartridges all you need if you want to measure shoulder bump is an empty piece of 40 S&W brass. Put the 40 case over the mouth of your 308, 30-06 or the like. Measure the whole shebang. Size your case. Measure again the same way. The difference is the bump, no fancy gauge needed.


This chidt isn't rocket science

Yeah but a lot of folks make it out to be.
I think a lot of this stuff comes from the difference between making serviceable ammo and the guys making BR or LR ammo. As Mathman said, it depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
Incorporating some of the precision without knowing the difference can do more harm than good.

I keep chidt simple and make "serviceable" ammo. Trust me, there aren't too many guys here making stellar LR or BR ammo that they can brag about here, or they would have taken me up on the offer to post their results in the MOA all day long thread. A lot of guys that think they know what the fu ck they speak of, but not proving it. The writing is on the wall... Like I said, this chidt isn't rocket science. And in regards to brass life, I hear some guys toss their brass after loading it 5 times. That too is a waste. I use FL dies, not neck dies and can load most of my brass 15+ times, by that time the primer pockets are loose, so its time to toss it anyway. There are many ways to skin the cat here, but guys are going to have to start proving to me that their way is better, and that hasn't happened yet. KISS.
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Most guys here are talking about hunting rifles and loads for those rifles. Not loading for full on benchrest competitions.


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I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
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Erik Cortina is worth a follow on YouTube guys. Just some excellent content. In regards to the OP original question? Watch this. Erik couldn’t make it any easier to show how to set up your FL sizer for 0.002” shoulder bump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htvk1UYOXm8

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Originally Posted by deerstalker
Originally Posted by Blacktailer
Been reloading about 50 years. Don't own a gauge. Always set the die by feel.

this.
and where can a guy "buy" a feel? grin


The same place that he can buy a "bump".


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Originally Posted by woodson
Erik Cortina is worth a follow on YouTube guys. Just some excellent content. In regards to the OP original question? Watch this. Erik couldn’t make it any easier to show how to set up your FL sizer for 0.002” shoulder bump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htvk1UYOXm8


Yeah, that's the scientific way with actual tools & real measurements..................nowhere near as accurate as those with talented feel in their hands. Laughin' here. laugh

Tools work for me when I'm interested in precision & knowing what the exact numbers are.

MM

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