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Originally Posted by antlers
Others are of the opinion that if someone
will die for you...then they are ‘for’ you...and that can
certainly influence someone’s thought and belief regarding
the ‘softening of another’s character’.


Jesus didn't want to die for mankind , on the contrary
he directly asked if he could skip the process.
(Matthew 26:39)

Ultimately His will was to submit to the will
of the Father.

The concept of having someone tortured and killed
to demonstrate the love for someone else , most
would see such kind of act as abhorrent.

Those who do such, normally reserve it for their
worst enemies and are just plain crazy depraved.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm

Well, according to Antler there is nothing particularly wrong with Islam, or any other religion for that matter,
if that's what "feels" right to them, then good to go. Murdering infidels is okay right?,... .


Ironically, 'Infidel' originates from the Latin
not Islam... LoL.

Faith has driven christians to build large armies
To kill what they deemed infidels and heretics..
'might makes right' on matters of faith.
..while they had the swords and maces out,
they took oportunity to slaughter rival eastern
orthodox christians, jews, pagans, etc.


Originally Posted by antlers
.. And I’m also not OK with the bigotry, prejudice
and violence that has nothing at all to do with faith..


Antlers. do you subscribe to the Christian 'all other
God's are false'.. ?

Not only do Christians disagree with other people's
choice of deity , they also feel compelled to judge
and condemn other deities.

remembering that prejudice is thinking poorly
of another person's different religious beliefs.

and bigotry is when one refuses to accept
the possibility that their particular opinions
are the result of flawed logic.






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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by DBT
The change in the nature and character of God between the OT and the NT is quite evident and has been noted from early times.
And your opinion on ‘why’ that change occurred is different from that of others.


It's not an opinion. History tells us that ideas and beliefs change over time. Believers in this day and age can't agree on theology or the nature of God. Which makes a belief in the existence of God a matter of opinion, and to observe what is happening as a matter of fact. Sorry if that simple truth is hard to accept.

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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by DBT
Something is true regardless of who happens to believe this or that. The world is what it regardless of how you see it or believe about it. If there is a contradiction between view, one is wrong and the other is right, or both are wrong. Opposing views can't all be right. Somebody has to be wrong.
Tell ‘that’ to the passionate Confederate and the passionate Yankee who both read the same history book about the Civil War...and come up with two entirely different perspectives on the matter.



That's the point. neither side looks at it objectively. Both sides see the world through the filter of their own faith. Neither side sees the bible for what it is, a document of the beliefs of ancient people. Plus the Civil War was fought for many reasons, some economic, some ideological, others religious.

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Originally Posted by DBT
That seems to be the crux of it.
Everything is reduced to an 'opinion.' Therefore
the opinion of a Christian is as good as the
opinion a scientist or the opinion of a Muslim,
a Jew, a Hindu, etc......


Hinduism doesnt say their narrative is true,
they humbly admit t's just a mythological
interpretation or tale... Christianity however
can't get together and decide what's true
and what isn't.... 2000 yrs down the road
and all those folks allegedly with the holy
spirit, but still receiving conflicting truths.

We've got them right here on the CF plainly
telling others they are wrong, while claiming
they themselves are correct and they don't
like to be quized on it - you just need to take
their word for it.

Originally Posted by DBT
.. History tells us that ideas and beliefs change over time...


Christians blamed jews for the black plague,
Christians today still blame jews for certain
things.... and if you question those christians
they say you are working for the devil.




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Originally Posted by DBT
The change in the nature and character of God between the OT and the NT is quite evident and has been noted from early times.
Originally Posted by antlers
And your opinion on ‘why’ that change occurred is different from that of others.
Originally Posted by DBT
It's not an opinion. History tells us that ideas and beliefs change over time.
It ‘is’ an opinion. Your opinion that the nature and character of God between the OT and NT changed due to “Greek thought and influence” differs from the opinions of others on this matter. And your opinion that that change was due to “beliefs change over time” differs from the opinions of others on this matter...especially when the time period in question was ‘just’ a few decades...from Jesus’ ministry, to the appearance of the earliest New Testament documents in the first century.
Some are of the opinion that if someone will die for you...then they are ‘for’ you...and ‘that’ can certainly influence someone’s thoughts and beliefs, and lead to the change in the nature and character of God between the OT and the NT.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
I think you folks don't realize Who God is. Remember the pale blue dot that is the earth in a photo taken from Pluto? That was just this solar system. God created not just this Galaxy but all of them. Infinite is, well, Infinite!


One question I've always had, is if humans are so important to God, why create all the rest of the universe if the message is for people on earth? And if the message is for all earthlings, why screw around with some dinky backwater in Palestine 2000 years ago when the message is "unto all nations," not just the Jews?

And where is heaven? The ancients thought it was up (as in "ascending"). But now we know the earth is round, the atmosphere is shallow, and heaven ain't "up," at least not for a gazillion miles.


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God, being Infinite shows His Power with the universe. There are three heavens. Our atmosphere, space, and beyond is "the third heaven." Of course infinite is beyond our comprehension.


"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
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The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

The only way for the deaf to hear or see the truth is if they ask HIM to come into their heart.

Satan is in them and convicts them of their sin. Satan makes them too ashamed to to acknowledge HIM, so they turn away and deny HIM as their master directs them.


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

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Originally Posted by Ringman
God, being Infinite shows His Power with the universe. There are three heavens. Our atmosphere, space, and beyond is "the third heaven." Of course infinite is beyond our comprehension.


Ringman, do you still need me to explain where the "chemicals in the ocean" end up? Do you know where the salt in your salt shaker comes from?



A wise man is frequently humbled.

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One question I've always had, is if humans are so important to God, why create all the rest of the universe if the message is for people on earth? And if the message is for all earthlings, why screw around with some dinky backwater in Palestine 2000 years ago when the message is "unto all nations," not just the Jews?

And where is heaven? The ancients thought it was up (as in "ascending"). But now we know the earth is round, the atmosphere is shallow, and heaven ain't "up," at least not for a gazillion miles.
[/quote]
1. Why do some people put a pool in their backyard.

2. The Jews were supposed to spread the GOOD NEWS, but they were stiff necked, like you.

3. There is no heaven as far as you're concerned, other than the blessing from HIM that you can look up and see.


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

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Last edited by Ringman; 07/13/20.

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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Ringman
God, being Infinite shows His Power with the universe. There are three heavens. Our atmosphere, space, and beyond is "the third heaven." Of course infinite is beyond our comprehension.


Ringman, do you still need me to explain where the "chemicals in the ocean" end up? Do you know where the salt in your salt shaker comes from?


I guess I was not clear enough. I want you to tell me why if the earth and ocean is billions of years old and chemicals have been eroding into the ocean for eons, why is it not so laden life can not exist. Try to answer that, please.


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Originally Posted by TF49
For Starman,

Don was a maintenance planner at a mine a worked at. Pretty good guy, competent in his job ..... but always on edge.... always unhappy and seemingly looking for something to complain about. Kinda like a “dissatisfied rebel” but not having any real cause or banner to take up. Don was also very much anti-Christian.

At age 37, Don got married for the first time.... by all accounts to a very good gal. They had been married only a couple of months when Don began to have small seizures. He was diagnosed with brain cancer. He continued to work and we were all impressed with how he was holding everything together..... but his attitude took a real turn when he was told It was inoperable....grew like a “spiderweb” in his brain. Don was gone for awhile and then returned to work.... a new man.... his new wife somehow witnessed to him, took to church...whatever, I really don’t know how it happened but Don was a new man.

He only worked another couple of weeks, but was telling everybody about his wonderful wife and his wonderful savior. No more angry, bitter rebel, just peaceful. Somber on some days, but often with a peaceful smile. He died just a few weeks after his last day at work.

Don had a thing or two to tell us..... 37 years wasted, 37:years of rejecting God....(btw, he used a completely inappropriate term to describe his treatment of Jesus, but after all, this was a mine filled with rough men). .....then a new wife and a bright future, then dismay with the prospect of loss and his impending death.... then....Joy. He said God got his attention and while he didn’t like the idea of dying so young, he called the cancer a blessing....a gift from the Lord to set him straight.

By all accounts, he died peacefully and in victory.

From the time of his marriage to his death was only 5-6 months.


And all it took was damage due to a highly invasive brain tumor. God does indeed work in mysterious ways.


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
...isn't at least someone wrong with their faith?
I believe so, but if no one is being harmed, it’s not my place to point that out...and if no one is being harmed, it’s not ‘your’ place to point that out either.....
So you have no problem if you've picked the wrong faith and will burn in hell as a result?
lol

‘You’ seem to have a lot more of a problem with it than I do.

still lol


It's not about me. How come you can't answer such a simple question? What makes you think you've chosen the correct faith, or is just because you know deep in your gut?



mauserand9mm,

Legit question, here is some explanation and some testimony:

First a related point…. Yes, I believe that the Christian…. Jesus following religion… is the only true religion. Obviously, all religions can’t be true as there are huge mutually exclusive teachings amongst the world’s religions. Christianity is unique in that it’s namesake rose from the dead…..Also unique in that there are no other world religions that do not teach some sort of ‘works’ doctrine.

But, back to your question… “What makes you think you’ve chosen the correct faith, or is it just because you know deep in your gut?”

Let’s ignore the “chosen” aspect for now….

So, “Why indeed….”

Here is Jesus speaking…. John 14:19…..”Before long, the world will not see me anymore, (crucifixion) but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.”

In a nutshell…. Jesus is living within me. Same for the Holy Spirit. This is not some feeling “…. deep in your gut.” It is a heavy mind crashing, indescribable loving reality. When god speaks within, there is no doubt about who is doing the speaking and no doubt about that reality. As Jesus says…. “…. you will realize…..I am in you.”

Many who have posted on this topic will say they do not have that experience. I believe that. Jesus visits with the honest seeker.
The objections that are raised by many posters here seem to be mind soothing excuses not to address the fundamental issue….. Jesus and You.

Now, from my own experience….. I prayed the “sinners prayer” …. actually many times while sitting in that pew….. but I did not have what some folks describe as the “overwhelming filled with the Spirit, bathed in love, freedom from sin experience.” I wish I had, but I did not.

Over a period of months, I struggled with that…. then I decided that well, I asked Him to forgive and I will act like He did indeed do that, whether I felt the glow or not….. it was not long after that that God spoke to me… actually called me by name. Now, THAT was an experience!

So, no, knowing that Jesus is real is not some deep in the gut feeling. It is far far greater than that.



Last edited by TF49; 07/13/20.

The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

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Ringman, the ocean is not a closed system and there are many mechanisms that remove ions from solution in seawater. Both physical and biological processes The salt in your shaker was formerly dissolved in the ocean, and precipitated in shallow seas to form salt beds, some of which are hundreds and thousands of feet thick. Like the salt beds used to store radioactive waste at the WIPP site. Or the salt beds that formed salt domes beneath Louisiana and Texas. Same with the gypsum in your sheetrock, formerly calcium sulfate dissolved in seawater that precipitated in shallow seas. And all the limestone previously mentioned, as well as limestone all over the world came from dissolved ions in seawater, either fixed by shelled organisms or sometimes precipitated in shallow seas.

In other words, the sea is not a closed system where the ions from dissolved rocks just accumulate. There are many processes that remove the ions from solution. These materials accumulate in sediments, are lithified into rock formations thousands of feet thick, and are eroded and recycled.

And like I said before, if this has to be explained to you, you have no business taking about "chemicals in the ocean."



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Originally Posted by jaguartx
Do you exert as much effort disputing threads on the internet discussing allah?

Alla, Duw, Gud, Dios, Bog, Vajtswv, Tann, Xudo, Allah, God, Jumal, Dieu, Istan, Gott, Theos, Buh, Duh, What matter is the language of the speaker when all are synonymous for the Creator, the being in charge of all existence, the God of Abraham.


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Originally Posted by TF49
For Starman,

Don was a maintenance planner at a mine a worked at. Pretty good guy, competent in his job ..... but always on edge.... always unhappy and seemingly looking for something to complain about. Kinda like a “dissatisfied rebel” but not having any real cause or banner to take up. Don was also very much anti-Christian.

At age 37, Don got married for the first time.... by all accounts to a very good gal. They had been married only a couple of months when Don began to have small seizures. He was diagnosed with brain cancer. He continued to work and we were all impressed with how he was holding everything together..... but his attitude took a real turn when he was told It was inoperable....grew like a “spiderweb” in his brain. Don was gone for awhile and then returned to work.... a new man.... his new wife somehow witnessed to him, took to church...whatever, I really don’t know how it happened but Don was a new man.

He only worked another couple of weeks, but was telling everybody about his wonderful wife and his wonderful savior. No more angry, bitter rebel, just peaceful. Somber on some days, but often with a peaceful smile. He died just a few weeks after his last day at work.

Don had a thing or two to tell us..... 37 years wasted, 37:years of rejecting God....(btw, he used a completely inappropriate term to describe his treatment of Jesus, but after all, this was a mine filled with rough men). .....then a new wife and a bright future, then dismay with the prospect of loss and his impending death.... then....Joy. He said God got his attention and while he didn’t like the idea of dying so young, he called the cancer a blessing....a gift from the Lord to set him straight.

By all accounts, he died peacefully and in victory.

From the time of his marriage to his death was only 5-6 months.


And all it took was damage due to a highly invasive brain tumor. God does indeed work in mysterious ways.



Apparently so.....

I have sat with a few who were in their last days. Seen victory and defeat.... joy and fear.... The mind can be tricky in those times.


Had one tell me....."Well, I can't get.... THERE.... if I don't leave HERE!"


The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Hastings
Are you a Baptist preacher? Just curious.
Why?
TF49: Are you a Baptist preacher?


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Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Hastings
Are you a Baptist preacher? Just curious.
Why?
TF49: Are you a Baptist preacher?



No, just a retired miner.


The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

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Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Hastings
Are you a Baptist preacher? Just curious.
Why?
TF49: Are you a Baptist preacher?
No, just a retired miner.
Thanks, I was just wondering. I've been attending a local SBC and both y'all believe along the same lines that preacher does. Strangely enough Jimmy Swaggart and my local SBC preacher's ideas line up pretty well. I understand Jimmy is Assembly of God.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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