Home Forums Reloading Handgun Reloading 38 Special plinking/defense load.

What would be a good standard load, not +P for plinking and self defense?

Jacketed or cast?

3" J frame.

I don't have anything that is not +P, but I do have some that you might try with less powder. Mine are 6.3 grs. of Ramshot Silhouette w/ 110 gr. Barnes Tac-X. Or 6.6 grs. of Ramshot True Blue.
Ramshot says 6.3 grs. of True Blue w/ 110 gr. Hdy. XTP generates 15, 687 psi. My 3" Smith 60 throws 2 inch groups for five, off hand, @ 15 yds. for me with my loads. E

Two desires at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Kind of like asking for a sports car that can also tow a 30' travel trailer.

I look at a plinking load as primarily being inexpensive to load with low recoil. This typically is a lead round nose bullet or maybe a semi wadcutter with a lower powder charge. Not something overly desired for self defense but works well punching paper, knocking over cans, or throwing up dust.

A self defense load would not spare cost as a primary objective but it would pack more velocity and recoil than something for plinking. I prefer a 158 gr lead hollow point semi wadcutter pushed as fast as I can go as that is most likely to give the penetration needed for this use. If the bullet expands along the way is a bonus provided it does not detract from adequate penetration.

I have used jacketed bullets in 4" and longer barreled guns but they have been somewhat inconsistent in terminal performance which I feel negates their higher cost. I do have them in defensive loadings but they are not my first choice most of the time. The jacketed bullets do have some advantages but not necessarily in actual use, in my opinion.

Not +P... 3" steel J-frame. .. plinking AND self defense? A 158 gr. cast SWC at 850 fps, about 5 grs. of Unique should do it.

The 158 LSWCHP would be fine for both. Could load up mild for targets and have hotter loads for carry.

I have a mold for 158SWCHP bullets. Even out of a 2” they’ll rivet or expand a little when cast out of wheel weights and pushed with 5gr Unique. Pushed harder out of a 6.5” barrel N frame with more Unique behind them they’ll expand pretty violently and often shear the expanded nose off leaving the solid base to penetrate further. Main issue with them for me is they’re time consuming to make in a single cavity mold.

For one load for both uses, I would suggest a 148 grain Double Ended Coated Lead Wadcutter under 3.3 grains of Titegroup. This load in my M-36 J frame 2" barrel gets me 754 FPS and 187 Ft. Lbs. energy. Recoil is mild. With your 3" barrel you will get a little more velocity. For self defense, you really may want to up that a little unless over penetration is a concern. Several companies manufacture these bullets, such as Missouri Bullet Company. ACME may also have them, not sure. I know that Bayou does not.

I know you are asking for one bullet/load for both uses, but for defensive purposes, not +P, I would use a 130 grain HST jacketed hollow point wadcutter under 3.6 grains Titegroup. The hollow point cavity is huge. Midway currently has them as blems. I don't know of any other source. They are made by or for Federal for their HST ammo. In my 2" barrel, I get 803 FPS and 186 Ft. Lbs. energy. However, that bad boy usually expands to about .65 - .70 caliber and with 10 - 12 inch penetration, also with mild recoil. They are quite accurate out to 7 yards. That is as far as I have tried them, however I have heard that they are reasonably accurate out to 50 feet. This limitation is due to the huge hollow point cavity. That is what I now carry in my snubbies.

Recently placed another order with Missouri Bullet Company for 500 of their .38 Special 158 gr. LSWC's. They cast them at brinell hardness of 12 which is ideal for the velocities we are talking about.
My S&W 67 4" loves this bullet. MBC now states orders are taking 3-4 weeks, I had mine in less than two weeks.

Need to give em a shout. They are less than 10 miles from the house.

4.5grs of Unique, or Universal and 158-160gr cast.


As I said in another thread, fixed sight S&W 38's, regardless of frame, are on the money with the 158's. I also shoot cast bullets about 99.9% of the time in the 38.

Actually, in every revolver.

A post by Mackay Sagebrush from the thread "Best snub nose round 38SPL +P". Note the last sentence address your standard load requirement. There are a lot of good general purpose pistoleros at the fire but when it comes to self defense, when Mackay talks I listen.

Link to post If you click the link look at the very next post showing the accuracy attainable with a small J-frame.

"Full wadcutters for straight and consistent penetration on the initial load. The very majority of the most ballistically experienced gunmen I know do this for their initial load. After this use a reload that is easier to top off, such as the Speer Gold Dot short barrel load.

Wadcutters load attributes are excellent accuracy, low recoil, and deep penetration along with excellent tissue disruption compared to typical round nose designs, due to the sharp profile.

A friend and former FBI SAC has also specifically recommended the Lee 358-160-RF for it's penetration capabilities similar to wadcutters, yet being much easier to reload than a standard wadcutter.

Frankly, it has been my experience and observation that people tend to pick loads for the J frames that they are not able to shoot well at all instead of a load that they can shoot precisely. There is a reason that lesser recoiling, deep penetrating full wadcutters have long been recommended. They shoot to POA/POI, and the very vast majority of users can shoot them accurately, as opposed to +P loads."



Hits in the right place count more than sheer power. Hmmm, something like that might make a good sig line....

Fwiw, I should be getting a 3" J-frame delivered this coming week. Already have some initial wadcutter rounds loaded up using Missouri Bullet Company powder coated DEWC and bought them as a specific reaction to Mackay's advice.

Re/accuracy with +p 38 spl loads: Up through the early 1970s our dept., all 38 spl. revolver issue, about 110 members, shot the FBI PPC (practical pistol course) once a year. IMO it's a relatively difficult course for anyone that doesn't shoot a lot. The course has different stages of timed fire from different distances, some behind barricades out to as I recall, 50 yards, at a silhouette target. Double and single action using the right and left hand for single action.

We carried round nose police issue ammo and were each given a box of wadcutters for PPC qualification until we got a new chief around 1970. He had issue ammo changed to something hotter and he required it be used for the PPC. I can't recall the specific brand but there was a noticeable increase in recoil. Until then we had a few guys that shot a lot and usually had high scores, sometimes perfect. When the hotter loads were issued and required for the course there were no more perfect scores for the first few years and everyone's scores dropped noticeably.

My .38 Special plinking/carry load for my Ruger SP101 features a 158gr Cast Performance SWC combined with Trail Boss. I'm still fine-tuning recipes and have not chronographed anything yet, but recoil is more than manageable to me and accuracy is good enough for any chores I might assign to a snubby; center-of-mass every time at 20-25 feet. This is not my EDC. It sits in my "fire alarm" bag and sometimes goes on my belt when I'm hunting with a rifle.

I shoot coated cast 125's from the Lee mold for plinking, and the short barrel Speer ammo for EDC. Hornady has some really low recoil stuff for snubbies if that is your game.

I load between 3.2 grains and 3.6 grains of Red dot under a 158 cast lead bullet. The 3.2 for plinking and the 3.6 for a carry load. Nicely accurate and low recoil.

kwg

Wadcutter 148 grain slugs (BB or hollow base)... touch of Bullseye powder. LuckyGunner says 18 inches of penetration and it's a dandy .38 load for self defense. Groups 10x better than lots of 'self defense' loads to!

https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/

3.5 grains + 148 grain hard-cast double-ended ( not hollow base) wadcutter.

Delete. Dupe post

plinker

Trailboss ??????