Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game 358 win bullet for elk

I may take my old 99 in 358 as a spare rifle on this years elk hunt. I have a few boxes of factory 200 horn sp and rnsp ammo. It shoots both fine. Anyone have any experience with either of those on elk? I may get a box of 200gr tsx or 225 sierras and try those. Any opinions or experience with any of the above would be appropriated. Thx.

Ben

Biggest Roosevelt bull I ghosted with my 88 358 and 200 silver tips. 358 is just like a whelen, no need for designer bullets to make it shine..

The 200gr bullets are fairly stout, and should be okay at 358 speeds, but they won't be ideal for "raking" shots. Shooting for the ribs or the "opposite" shoulder" they should be fine. I like the 225 Sierras and the 220 Speers at modest velocities, such as those produced in the 358. Never tried the 200 TSX, but the guys who use them like them well.

I save the 200gr lead-tipped bullets for 357 Herrett.

I use 250 grain Hornady Interlocks.

It sounds like HuntandShoot, has had good luck with Sierra's for elk as have many others. While many people count on Remington Cor-Lock's to fill their freezers on game as large as moose. For me I have had terrible luck with both bullets. I have a hard time killing a deer with the Remington offering and the Sierra's come apart before much penetration from my experiences. It is always interesting hearing others experiences. There sure is a lot of dead game from those two bullets. Guess I am doing something wrong.

225 Nosler Partition. Short enough to work well in the 358, expands well at low velocities at longer ranges and yet holds together.

FWIW, I run 225 SGK in (2) 358’s, and my whelen. I wouldn’t be afraid to use any non premium bullet in either chambering, on deer or elk..

I found the Nosler 225 yo be good medicine on near elk/elk sized game - kudu, Waterbuck, Zebra. a stout lload of 4895 works wonders.

Personally I’d lean toward the TTSX over the TSX. It’s supposed to expand at a little lower velocities, which could buy your a few extra yards to work with! It’s difficult to beat Barnes mono bullets on big game! Good Luck with whatever you choose! memtb

My best success has been the 250 grain Speer spitzer.

Barnes minimum impact velocity vary by caliber and by weight and by TSX vs TTSX. You can call Barnes and they will tell you the minimum impact velocity for a particular bullet. most are around 1600-1800 fps.

The 3fiddygreat doesn’t need “premium “ bullets... 😂😂

225 Sierra’s are extremely deep penetrators, or you can go the partition approach.

250’s often need to be seated to far in for my taste.

once I shot a 200lb buck and was trying to chest him, but he jumped sideways as I was pulling the trigger, the Sierra entered just above his shoulder, hit a couple bones and kept going all the way through the meat until finally stopped at the back hip.

DAMN !

Never seen a 3fiddygreat kill a 200 plus pound buck with a 225 SGK.... haha

I shot a bunch of stuff in AK with plain cup and core bullets in a 20” barreled Whelen. 250s at 2550fps was where the magic happened for me. The only one I ever recall catching was a 250 RN on a quartering shot on a grizzly, it looks like a magazine advertisement.

Had a buddy who killed a bunch of moose with a Sako rebarreled to 358. His favorite bullet was the 200 Spire point.

At these type velocities plain old bullets work great.

225 SGK @2500 probably 40-50 yards, via 3fiddygreat

I don't own a 35 cal other then my 35 Remington, but I have in the past. I have never killed an elk with a 35, but I am friends with 4 men that do.

One in Nevada is an old friend who has been one of my hunting partners (BB guns and 22s) since 2nd grade. He has a 35 Whelen I made for him about 12 years ago. he has killed 5-6 elk with it and swears by 225 grain Sierras and 225 grain partitions.

Another in Rawlins Wyoming has a small ring Mauser I made for him about 20 years ago and he loves the 200 grain Barnes TSX. He has killed elk and deer both with that bullet and says it's perfect.

There is a man I made another 35 Whelen for in Riverton Wyoming and he loves the old 250 grain Round Nose Hornady, but I understand that bullet is not made any more. I don't know what he is using now.

Lastly I know a man with a Winchester M88 in 358 who now has moved to Arkansas, but used to live in Green River Wyoming. He used to hunt with factory loads and about 6 years before he moved to Arkansas I got him into reloading. He settled on the 225 grain Nosler Partition and loved it so much he used it for all his hunting from Antelope to elk and at least 1 moose (in Canada) I know of.

I am making a take-down Mauser on a small ring action with a swap-barrel set. The 2 barrels will both have for-ends, sights and be interchangeable. One is a 257 Roberts and the other is a 9X57 Mauser. My 9X57 is "Americanized" because I had a chamber reamer with a pilot ground to fit the American size 35 cal barrels with 358" grooves instead of the German size with 356" grooves. The land to land in the German barrels is a bit tighter then it is on the american .358 size so the pilot needed to be a different diameter.
I expect to set the scope for the 9X57 and the irons both for the Nosler 225 grain. The 9X57 is just a slight bit in front of the 358 Winchester if loaded to the same pressure, and a bit behind the 35 Whelen, but I doubt any elk, moose or bear could tell the difference . So I am betting the 9X57 loaded to the top safe pressure (about like the factory loads for 358) will do the same things the 358 Win will do. I hope I live long enough to try it out and have some fun with it, although I may just sell it too.

The 257 will be zeroed for the 115 grain Partitions. So with those 2 barrels and both having their own scopes and sights, both sets of loading dies and recipes for the 2 loads, I expect to have a take down rifle that is ready for any game from Coyotes to Moose. Maybe in the future I can post a few reports on the results with that .358" bullet, but I expect nothing to add to all the many many men shooting the 358 Winchesters. The case shape is not going to make any real difference so all the 358 Winchester will do I expect to do with the 9X57, using the same bullets at the same speeds and so little faster as to make no difference at all.

Yeah the 225 Sierras and the 220 Speers have done well for me at 358 speeds out of a Whelen. Mild shooting at 2520-2550 and good at killing. No drama. I'd recommend either for elk in a 358.

This shiit is gettin serious!!! Haha

Mike Detorre nailed it.

I contacted Barnes a while back and got the following for minimum recommended velocities for their .358 bullets...

180gr TTSX - 1650fps
200gr TSX - 1800fps
200gr TTSX - 1650fps
225gr TSX - 1600fps

The 225 Sierra GK is my favorite bullet out of my 20" barreled 350 Rem Mag. Killed 4 elk and numerous deer with that combo. Great bullet. Should work good at 358 winnie speeds.

Thx for the info.

Ben

Couple of elk apiece with the Sierra and Nosler 225’s.
Both worked perfectly. Only recovered one, a Sierra.
For an all around take em as they come .358 bullet, I’d take the Nosler partition.

I was planning to use a .358 for my annual elk hunt in 1996. Bought some of the new Barnes 180 grain X bullet on their recommendation and about 3.5-4" groups was the very best I could get. I had a 250 grain Speer load that left the muzzle at 2353 fps and would group 1.5-2" on demand so that's the girl I took. The afternoon of Oct. 14 about 12:30 I got my shot at about 50-60 yards. At the shot, he stumbled and traveled 50 yards and was down. Complete penetration combined with terrible destruction to the lungs and an unneeded blood trail that anyone with eyes could follow made me a believer in the 3fiddygreat. I've found it to be as deadly on deer with 200-225 grain bullets also and can't wait for deer season to try her again!

I've shot my last 2 elk with the 225 NPT out of the 35 Whelen they kill elk dead without blowing up the meat. MB

With the limited velocity of the .358 Win., just about any “decently” constructed cup and core or mono bullet should work quite well.... provided you stay within the bullet’s design limitations! I’m just an “unabashed” user of Barnes Bullets! memtb

If I ever get around to loading them the 180 gr Xs sitting on my bench will do well. But I have never had anything but a DRT on whitetail. Used the 200 gr pointed and RN Remington bulk bullets from Midway USA. I figure on my elk loads I will use the Nosler Partitions I bought several hundred of. Be Well, and kill Elk, Rustyzipper.

Fixed it for you!!

180 TTSX shoot real fine in my 358 Savage 99.

Damn, you have an 88 in 358...I'm jealous..hunting partner has one in 308 and always liked it. I'd take a 99 too, but had to settle years ago for my BLR.

I shot a deer with my 358 and the 200 Hornady SP at about 200 yards. My load was around 2550 fps and thought I'd maybe catch it. Nope, went through and busted out the opposite shoulder joint on the way out. I'd have no issue using it or the 225 Sierra load I have at about 2450.

My 99 shoots the Hornady factory loaded .250's very well...

Death dealin with a Whelen.
250 Barnes Original spitzer.035” jacket.

I'm a little jealous too. My 88 is a 308 and also have a BLR .358 Win. Like them both. I shot a buck at about 30 yards with a Hornady 200 SP from my BLR. It broke the opposite shoulder scapula but was lodged against the ball joint. He started quartering away just as I pulled the trigger and ran for 30 or so yards. Retained weight was 149.4 grains / 75%.

Thanks for the bullet photos guys. You always wonder what it would have looked like if you could get one to stop in the off side. I like to let the air in though. Be Well, Rustyzipper.

Never used my 358 Hawkeye all weather for elk, but a man could do a lot worse than a 200gr TTSX at 2700 fps, the first and only load other than 200gr TSX at the same velocity I've ever shot through that rifle.

225 SGK after it dug into some meat..

I’ve used the 225 Partition and Sierra GK a decent amount in my 358 and Whelen. Like Jud posted, the Sierra not be as pretty but man does it hammer animals. Blood trails from a 358 or Whelen are the coolest I’ve seen. Broad and lotsa volume..

Beeg holes are nice, especially in this part of the country.. 😆😆

I’ve literally never had a blood trail when using the Whelen. Even on grizzlies. They’ve all been down in sight. Never shot an elk with it though, just blacks and grizzlies, moose, and caribou. Only ever shot two critters with anything but a 250.

Has anyone noticed when using the 358 all the blood and tissue fragments on the ground? It's always in a straight line for 4 to 6 feet on the exit side. I have not seen this with 7mm or '06 although I may have missed it.

Yes sir, they seem to pull a bunch of stuff from the exit holes. That Sierra expands pretty widely from the few times I have put it into water jugs, to the order of .750-.800"

200gr TSX
225 NP

After randomly asking about a specific bullet, I ALWAYS email Barnes about new rifles/loads. Here is the reply about their .358 offerings. MANY of their bullets have different design windows. I have been quoted anywhere from 1500 FPS (168 TTSX .308) up to 2000 FPS for the min opening velocity depending on the bullet in reference.

<<<
The 180 will open down to 1900 fps, the 200 gr. will open down to 1800 fps and the 225 will open down to 1600 fps.
>>>

As Judman pointed out earlier, the 358 Win doesn't require fancy bullets to make it shine. No point in using bullets like Barnes in 358. It produces modest velocities that are ideal for cup/core bullets on large game. The monolithics are long for their weight, which is a significant detriment in the small package that is the 358. Which 358 cup/core bullet of appropriate weight WON'T work for elk?

HuntNshoot! That's the only question that need be asked here. Thanks. Kind of like buying cars. Don't think about the clown selling you the car. What are you getting and for how much? Be Well medium bore guys, Rustyzipper.

my rem. 600 in 350 loves the 225 nosler. deer never move. 1 big black bear went 2 to 3 feet before belly up. shot him at 27 feet. don't know what it weight was but f & g said the hide was 7' 1 " head was 19 13/16 just short of book.

Benbo- Does your old 99 have a crescent shaped, metal butt plate (I am not familiar w/ late 50's or early 60's Savages)? If so, you might want to try the Barnes 180 gr. TTSX for some recoil reduction while still maintaining an elk capable projectile. I have been working up loads for the 180 TTSX in my Ruger Hawkeye SS with Ramshot TAC & X-Terminator. 2809 fps average w/ TAC and, so far, 2715 fps w/ X-terminator (capable of more). These velocities may be too much for a 99 even though I observed no high pressure indications. -Mark

I load the 180 TTSX a grain under max for my 99. No pressure signs. Action opens easy, very very accurate in that rifle.

What powder?

Don’t forget about the 160 Raptor by Cutting Edge Bullets and the 178 Shock Hammer, both work well in the .358 Win.

JB likes TAC, as covered in his excellent article.

I like X-term as it is less compressed. RL-7 not compressed, gives great velocity and accuracy.

All three of those will work. Guess it depends on what you can find.

DF

I shoot TAC and the 180 TTSX. It always surprises me how brutally powerful that bullet is on game.

With it’s somewhat limited velocity, I’d probably go with a Cup & Core ……I’d probably go with a Hornady Interlock of around 225 to 250 grains - whatever is available! memtb

Bullets I mentioned can be pushed faster than conventional bullets. And they frag petals, the core boring on through

So, terminal performance is really good.

DF

The 35 Rem is not a 358 Win and the 358 Win is not a 35 Whelen. All are capable for most critters in North Ameica if you can put a bullet exactly where you want it. Expansion is not important at all when you put the bullet into the exact spot you need for a one shot kill. What does this really mean? You can shoot in any position, at any reasonable distance and hold off on making a shot if the situation is not right.

The 358 Win is very cable of one shot kills at 300 yards and is capable of the accuracy to make those shots and the penetration, without a super premium bullet as well. I have done it

I was suprised to see a 358 Win with 200 grain Rem RN fully penetrate a concaved hardened steel hanging 20" House HD cutter head disc blade at 275 yards. If you do not think it has enough juice think again.

I didn’t think about the Hammer’s or a reasonable facsimile thereof! 😉 memtb

I managed to kill a couple large cows with the Sierra 225 and a case full of 4320, one boiler room shot, one neck shot, both under 100 yds, I'm guessing around 2300 impact velocity. Didn't examine the wounds much, neck shot was through and through. They probably would have been even deader if I had used a pricier bullet.

225gr sgk, no reason to look elsewhere

I've posted .358 Win terminal performance with the 178 gr. Shock Hammer. This is the exit chest wound on a doe shot at around a hundred yards. Quick kill.

I sent this picture to the Hammer company, co-owner, Steve Davis, texted back, pointing out the satellite exits wounds around the core exit. He knew what he was looking at.

The Lehigh, CEB and Hammers are mono's that frag, the core boring on thru. Like most mono's, they're very accurate.

They're not cheap, but IMO, worth the cost. I haven't tried the Lehigh, but read good things about them. Bill Wilson bought the company, moved machinery from Utah to East Texas. As you know, he makes high end 1911's in Berryville, AR. His ranch is in East Texas and that's where Lehigh is now located.

I like to see mono technology being advanced. No telling how long before what's going on in CA moves East. It's good to have non-lead options, just in case.

I like Barnes, but these new versions are more expansive and frag, sorta like a mono Partition. So, I guess there's a mono for every application.

DF

What kind of velocity are you getting with the 160 raptors?

Didn’t clock’em. Guessing around 2,800 or so. They reportedly open at 1,500 fps, so don’t need a lot of speed to perform.

Even out of a JES 3 groove rebore, sub MOA.

DF

I have shot a couple of deer and one average size black bear with the 225 gr. Sierras from my .35 Whelen. Everything died but the core and jacket were always separated. I used tougher bullets from the Whelen for moose and Africa, either 250 grain Partitions or 225 TBBC. I keep the Sierras for deer sized game.

Hammer makes one called the Absolute Hammer. Their proprietary driving band design allows less friction thus faster velocity with less drag. The Absolute version pushes the envelope even farther. Check it out.

Some applications even require faster burning powder to get enough in the case. The Absolute Hammer opens new horizons for conventional rounds. Very interesting Looney stuff.

Weatherby is now loading Hammer bullets in some of their factory ammo. Bet that’s pretty expensive. But seems their market is more performance oriented, price not as important. If ya gonna go that route, handload!

DF

You should see what a Barnes 250 out of a 45-70 does to a WT. That bullet has a huge hollow point, blows lung tissue and blood out the other side. You can see the carnage on the ground.

Same with hogs. The far side rib cage showed an exit hole with the ribs fractured in a radial pattern out from the exit, sorta like a broken window. Pretty amazing what a big bullet does.

DF

I've had great results with 225gr. Sierra Game Kings in my .35 Whelen, should work just as well in .358.

You don't need fancy bullets for the 358 win. I have been using 200 gr Cor-locks for years and nothing has walked away. The Sierra 225 are great in my 350 rem mag.

Those Absolutes are something I didn’t believe till I tried them. I used the 172 in my Mashburn and that bullet easily got 3200 which is a solid 100 over what any other bullet in that weight class will do in my gun. And man were they accurate.

I love that 225 Sierra for deer killing though.







This one entered at the rear most ribs and was dug out of the front leg.

I just don't hunt or shoot enough to try all the combinations I would like for my personal research. But I have these rn and pointed bulk Remington 200 grainers. And boxes of old Nosler partitions. Still I would like to try the Hawk 358 bullets. Then there are the 350s; I have two. I would sell them BUT I have had a severe case of sellers remorse so my family will take what they want and sell the rest. RZ.

Good points made about .358 Win bullet choice.

Bottom line, hard to go wrong with that one. Most bullets, stuck in the right spot, will kill critters.

Great round for general hunting. Maybe not the best for LR, but general use, a champ.

DF

I have been having fun with the 178 grain hammer, not sure which version it is, but has the big hollow point ( shock hammer?) . Anyway, that bullet is doing 2650 out on my 20 inch barrel. Hits deer like a ton of bricks. No guessing if you hit it. Necessary? Nope. Fun? Yup. With that speed I am still fast enough at 300 yards that it should still open reliably, and drops ~15 inches. Haven't shot game that far with it, but have had it ringing a 6 inch plate at 300.

I’ve been running Nosler and Sierra 225’s out of my 20” Sako carbine and a modest load of W748.
My experience is on one young rocky mountain bull and several Roosevelt cows.

Longest shot at a bit over 250 yards on a big R cow - Sierra, double lunged and completely penetrated.
Closest was the bull at less than 50 yards - he stopped two Sierras, but died close by and quickly

The Nosler has always given two holes regardless of the hit angle - in my limited experience.
I’ve not caught one yet.

I feel the Sierra is a bit softer than the Nosler offering, but is a heck of a lot of bullet for 99% of the game I’d use a .358 on.
The bigger the game or more difficult the shooting scenario, the more I’d lean towards the Nosler bullet…..

I won’t go so far as to say I think the use of carriage trade bullets in the .358 is waste of money -
I just don’t think they’re necessary.
The less I have to pay for components, the more I will shoot and practice with that platform…..

I killed my largest bull elk ever, in 1986, with a Savage 99 358 and 250 gr. Speer Hot-Cores.
1 shot.

Nice to hear from the voice of experience. Thanks 53 and U.

I have had very good performance on black bear from Alaska Bullet Works of Juneau, AK 250 grain bullets in a 356 Win. Good guy to do business with.

szihn: What kind of takedown mechanism are you using on your Mauser? Thanks.

There ain’t much I wouldn’t tackle with that load. Actually, nothing comes to mind

That is a neat bullet. Slicker with patented drive rings with less friction, thus able to be shot faster. They’re a great company with outstanding CS. How often does an owner text an answer to a customer question. Steve Davis answered my text. I was impressed.

Terminal performance and accuracy are outstanding. To see Weatherby starting to load Hammer bullets in their factory ammo says a lot.

There is a YouTube piece, Adam Weatherby interviewing the Hammer owners. Google it. Lots of good info.

DF

Karl died years ago and no one to my knowledge has taken over the business.


Just today I shot my 358 Win using 38gr of RL7 and the Rem 200gr RNCL bullet. 2279fps and sub moa accuracy makes for a dandy deer load. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk with it inside 200yds.

The 200 gr TTSX over TAC in a custom 21" barreled pre-64 M70 worked just fine on an African load of plains game on a family trip in 2012.

Great looking "elk"!

In this 4 and a half year old thread, another vote for the 250 Hot-Cor on elk and the 225 Sierra on deer. One shot, then begins the cleaning process.

I’ve seen blood spray and lung tissue in the snow 20 feet beyond where the elk was standing. With a 243 and 100g Partition.

A slow moving, large caliber, conventional bullet works fine as long as it doesn’t have to take the scenic route through the critter.

A fast moving, large bullet seems to work pretty well also……no matter the route taken! 😉 memtb

RL-7 is one of my fav .358 Win powders. Good speed without needing to compress. Nothing wrong with compressed loads, I just like loads that don’t need to be compressed. And monos can be pretty long bullets, taking up powder room in the case. So powder room can be more critical than in some other rounds

DF

As long as it makes the full trip……

I’ve always thought that was mandatory! I’m very disappointed when I don’t get an exit……it’s been very seldom since about 1993. memtb

The 225 Sierra lays elk down. TAC powder.

I used 250 Winchester Silver Tips until I couldn't find them anymore. Now I use 250 Speer Hot Cores.

I'm curious about the comment concerning long range and 358 winchester. The same identical case except with a 308 bullet has been used by US snipers for decades. So what makes the 358 a short range proposition round? Or was it something read in a gun rag somewhere? Gunzgizzard would never enlighten me with his superior ballistics knowledge. Simply want to know what goes? I killed a spike buck at close to 300 yards with a bulk 35 cal PSP from Midway about 12 years ago with a 358 winchester out of a Savage 99. RZ.

Looking at the Tract Ballistic App the .358 Win with 225gn Nos. PT would still be above 1500 ft-lbs. beyond 400 yards and ~30" of drop with a 200 yard zero. MZ Vel of 2500 fps.

One problem with long range and a 358 is you'll quickly run out of velocity for expansion. That 225 Partition mentioned above hits 1800 fps (the speed Nosler cites as a minimum expansion velocity) at around 360 yards at sea level. It's not about energy, it's about bullets working as intended. Plus the wind drift will be significant.