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Totally agree about the number 1.

But I have never loaded a 1895 very much above mid book.

I couldn't get my model 71 up more than 75 % to top. book levels.

I got sticky on extraction

Last edited by Angus1895; 07/10/20.

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I enjoy these discussions.
A little reading to fire the conversation.

Edwin Pugsley wrote og the 1895 Winchester strength in the October 1945 issue of the Rifleman.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
This picture is of a .30-06 1895 which fired 1918 ammunition and suffered a case head failure.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
This one is from Kent Bellah and a 1957 issue of Guns Magazine.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
This is from the June1936 isue of the Rifleman
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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So what changes did Miroku/Winchester make to allow the current Model 1895 to handle the 30-06?


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Better steel is the answer but....
If you want some fun read P O Ackley Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders Vol. I pg. 203: Barrel Steel.
Its easy to use terms which describe steel and hard to prove it is better.
Loading for the .30-30AI with both a top eject and Angle Eject rifles I know the Angle Eject rifle will accept higher pressure loads (based on a sample of 1 top eject and two Angle Eject rifles) but I cannot tell you why. I can show you writing on the internet and possibly in a gun magazine or two where the writers describe the Angle Eject Model as weaker due to the cut in the right receiver wall.

I was discussing this with a friend and found this in my folder on Winchester 1895 stuff. From the same American Rifleman issue, October 1945 a second opinion on Winchester Model 1895 strength.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
All threads need a picture of an old hunter. Warren H Miller was a VERY interesting man.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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I second that. When looking at old photos of hunters/hunting it always makes me want to know the story around the photo.

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Warren H Miler was a very interesting guy. Many of his books are available free on Google Books.
These include Rifles and Shotguns which this picture is the frontispiece
My scan is poor but the picture is readily available on the web.
Thinking on deer rifles and hunting was a bit different but a lot of it stands the test of time.
Miller was aware of many more modern rifles but chose the 1895 in .35 Winchester and had several good reasons for doing so.
In addition to many other interesting things he was a WWI destroyer sailor and in 1921 he sailed around New Guinea and Borneo in a Junk to gather stories for a series of children's books.


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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Notice the to Texas Rangers in the front row with sawn off 1895's! Caption with I got with the pic says the fellow in the glasses is Capt W.L. Wright. Probably 30-40 calibers, I wonder how big the fireball was upon firing!

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38 inches is max rifle size that will fit in my scabbard on my freight sled. I'm not a fan of barrels shorter than 20 inches on a hunting rifle.

At 38.25" with 20 inch barrel, The scout-scoped browning 1895 was an easy choice as a scabbard gun. No short action bolt rifle, blr, nor savage 99 could match that length.

It is a smart design. Of the modern lever guns I've owned, the browning 1895 is the simplest and easiest to clean in the field. A plug screw and a pin: the bolt is out for a deep clean of receiver and bolt.

4000 lbs of energy and trajectory flat enough for a 400 yard shot, I ain't hurting for power or trajectory for anything here in Alaska.

Feeding: The nose of the spitzer bullet is about .45" into the chamber before the case head is released from the fixed magazine feed-lips. That straight-line run to the chamber is a smart design, and very trouble free. I wish I could've said the same for my blr and savage 99. They were finicky with certain bullets.

As my travels get more remote by dog team and canoe, a gun cabinet full of guns is about useless. I've paired down to one rifle, one shotgun and one handgun. The browning 1895 made the cut.....



Last edited by mainer_in_ak; 07/26/20.
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Not sure there is a lot of difference in strength between a modern Win 95 and a Modern Win 1886. Rear lock up is similar, I would think.

I have long been interested in a 450 Marlin in a Browning BLR. 2200fps with 400 grain bullets would be possible at 50,000PSI in a front locking action. The front locking makes a big difference in real world action strength. Though the BLR is lacking a few style points I love the 71 in 348 as it is, and so few of them were made even in the Browning version it seems a shame to modify to 450 Alaskan. In the mean-time I am not very handicapped with my 95 in 405 Win that will get 300 grain bullets to 2400fps.

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North61,
Thanks for the 1895/405 nod. You are the third person that I have documented to be shooting 300 grain bullets at 2400 fps. Imagine the penetration of a North Fork at that velocity. However, in my 1895 .405, 2250 fps with NF solids has been very effective on water buff and such.

Even at just under 2100 fps, the .411 Woodies are good on Cape Buff.

The 1895 is a great hunting rifle.
The .405 in a double is fun too!
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


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Originally Posted by william_iorg

This is from the June1936 isue of the Rifleman
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


This is crazy. My name is J. Shults. I am also left-handed.

A few of my relatives settled in southern Oregon after coming from Kentucky after settling there from Germany in the 1800's. I have to be related to the guy discussed in the article. "Shults" is an uncommon spelling.


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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Originally Posted by william_iorg

This is from the June1936 isue of the Rifleman
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


This is crazy. My name is J. Shults. I am also left-handed.

A few of my relatives settled in southern Oregon after coming from Kentucky after settling there from Germany in the 1800's. I have to be related to the guy discussed in the article. "Shults" is an uncommon spelling.


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Originally Posted by crshelton
North61,
Thanks for the 1895/405 nod. You are the third person that I have documented to be shooting 300 grain bullets at 2400 fps. Imagine the penetration of a North Fork at that velocity. However, in my 1895 .405, 2250 fps with NF solids has been very effective on water buff and such.

Even at just under 2100 fps, the .411 Woodies are good on Cape Buff.

The 1895 is a great hunting rifle.
The .405 in a double is fun too!
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]



Well I did round it up. I have 300 Hornady Spires at 2380fps in a 24" barrel Miroku Win 95 loaded with Benchmark. Hodgdon lists the load at 42,200 PSI and it gives less case expansion than the RL 7 load from Ken Waters that I used to use. I have now now stopped using RL7 in the 405 as it may be over pressure according to the Hornady guide (though never gave a problem). I don't trust a margin of error in these traditional levers and one needs to be a bit cautious.

H4895 is getting the nod with 300 grain Woodleighs at 2270fps. The 300 Barnes TSX is down at 2150 with RL15 but the accuracy is tremendous. Unfortunately it hits 6" lower on the target. Interesting round! Love to see you using it on big stuff.

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In my previous post, I may have failed to mention that I shot my Cape buffalo with a 400 grain Woodleigh at just under 2100 fps. It seems that is plenty fast enough with good shot placement ; bullet entered just behind rearmost rib on left side, passed through innards, heart (hole of 1 inch diameter +) and out between the front legs.

I had planned to use my NF FPS 300 grain load at 2250 fps, but buddies talked me into going for the 400 grain shot. I had a proven powder recipe using TAC and it worked, but I have since attained the same velocity with VV N133 at pressures under 40,000. Its all good!


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Originally Posted by crshelton
In my previous post, I may have failed to mention that I shot my Cape buffalo with a 400 grain Woodleigh at just under 2100 fps. It seems that is plenty fast enough with good shot placement ; bullet entered just behind rearmost rib on left side, passed through innards, heart (hole of 1 inch diameter +) and out between the front legs.

I had planned to use my NF FPS 300 grain load at 2250 fps, but buddies talked me into going for the 400 grain shot. I had a proven powder recipe using TAC and it worked, but I have since attained the same velocity with VV N133 at pressures under 40,000. Its all good!


N-133 is THE powder in the 405, thanks to you CR!. Before I used RL-15 and that worked ok, but 133 is MUCH better and MUCH cleaner. My load is 52.5gr for the Hornady, TSX, NFs and Woodleighs and 50.5 for the NF solids, all are right around 2250 and POI


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Jorge, I tried N-133 and it is good but not as accurate in my rifle as the loads I listed above. Every rifle is just a bit different and it always pays to test a variety of loads.

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Originally Posted by North61
Jorge, I tried N-133 and it is good but not as accurate in my rifle as the loads I listed above. Every rifle is just a bit different and it always pays to test a variety of loads.

Which loads? I did not see them listed other than powders. I'd like to try them.


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I'll look through my records and send in a private message. I hate listing loads on an open forum as you never know how they might be used.

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Okie doke.


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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