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MCH "ran one through a bull elk, didn't take a step"

Numbnuts ^^^ "Nah, those'll never work. Not enough mechanical advantage, think of a wheel "share" ramp fer christsake"

If everything Ed Ashby wrote was gospel you wouldn't be able to get a pass through on anything without a 900 gr arrow with an FOC of 30+. If you're going after rhino and cape buffalo you'd probably do well to listen to Ashby - state side an FOC around 15 and a sharp head will do pretty much anything.

...Ordered some Hydes for the hell of it, I'll be sure to post picks showing what a dummy I am around the first week of November.

Last edited by hillestadj; 09/10/20.
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Originally Posted by Hunterapp
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by Hunterapp
Wow frown Glad this worked for you, Though I will be shying away from this one due to little near no mechanical advantage if no other reason.


Proof is in the pudding, nice bull and no tracking. What mechanical advantage do you speak of compared to other mechanical heads?


The mechanical advantage I am referring to may apply to a fixed blade or a mechanical head. Dr Ashby suggest the optimum blade angle for maximum penetration will be a three tone mechanical advantage. If the cut diameter = 1" then the length of the cutting edge would be 3" for example. Very few broad heads offer the 3 to 1 mechanical advantage. Two to one may be more common. In this cace we are looking at what I would call .12 to one. Notice the decimal point.

Ashby has been around a long time & more recent years I expect he has seen a number of wheel share ramps. He uses the wheel share ramp to illustrate the concept of mechanical advantage. This is A bit more extreme to be sure. Ever see a 1 to 1 wheel share ramp? Id dare say no. Why? Mechanical advantage, lot easier to climb a 20 to 1 ramp than a 2 to 1 ramp for example. If this was not so then wheel share ramps surly would be a lot shorter. Wouldn't you say? Lot less space & material required for a 2 to 1 ramp as opposed to a 20 to 1 ramp, to be sure!

Looks to me like the mechanical blades on this head are more like a ax as opposed to a broad head. No thank you! See factor number four in the link below.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...19+Terminal+Arrow+Performance+Update.pdf

Im sick of all this Ashby crap. No i dont hunt larger western game. But ive dang sure killed my share of animals. And a wild hog is about as tough as they come. Especially when that plate comes into play. Ive yet to need a 600+grn arrow with a long 2 blade coc single bevel head with 20+% foc to get a passthru. If i were hunting A10 Warthogs id maybe be interested. But on stuff that the tissue pulls back from the cut and the bones are hollow....12-15% foc and an arrow weight that can get ya 280fps plus will do the job handily. And do it with a big cut mech head


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So the Ashby "Crap" does not apply at any level to North American big game you say. While it may be a bit over kill I beg to differ as my experience leads me down a successful path due more to momentum COC FOC & I have been fortunate enough to put together a system with structural integrity. 280fps is nice though not for the individual pulling a 24" DL & shorter. Momentum B4 Velocity in my book & same goes for mechanical advantage over cut diameter. Just seen & read about too many lost critters where penetration was dismal for a variety of reasons.

IMHO reasons that top the list include inadequate Inertia due to insufficient mass & poor BH for the system utilized. Guys with 31" draw length have more options than the shorter draw length guys or the traditional archers is all I am saying.


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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
A Slick Trick costs about $10/head. The Hyde costs 20. I can't see the advantage. They're illegal here in Idaho anyway.


So don't use it!


The Jekylls are legal, we’ll see how they do this year.

I’ll use the Hydes in Virginia when I get back.

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Are these broad heads only sold directly from the manufacturer?

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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Are these broad heads only sold directly from the manufacturer?


Yes - so far.

Last edited by AH64guy; 09/11/20.
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Originally Posted by AH64guy
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
A Slick Trick costs about $10/head. The Hyde costs 20. I can't see the advantage. They're illegal here in Idaho anyway.


So don't use it!


The Jekylls are legal, we’ll see how they do this year.

I’ll use the Hydes in Virginia when I get back.


Good Luck Out west and back home!


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Originally Posted by Hunterapp
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by Hunterapp
Wow frown Glad this worked for you, Though I will be shying away from this one due to little near no mechanical advantage if no other reason.


Proof is in the pudding, nice bull and no tracking. What mechanical advantage do you speak of compared to other mechanical heads?


The mechanical advantage I am referring to may apply to a fixed blade or a mechanical head. Dr Ashby suggest the optimum blade angle for maximum penetration will be a three tone mechanical advantage. If the cut diameter = 1" then the length of the cutting edge would be 3" for example. Very few broad heads offer the 3 to 1 mechanical advantage. Two to one may be more common. In this cace we are looking at what I would call .12 to one. Notice the decimal point.

Ashby has been around a long time & more recent years I expect he has seen a number of wheel share ramps. He uses the wheel share ramp to illustrate the concept of mechanical advantage. This is A bit more extreme to be sure. Ever see a 1 to 1 wheel share ramp? Id dare say no. Why? Mechanical advantage, lot easier to climb a 20 to 1 ramp than a 2 to 1 ramp for example. If this was not so then wheel share ramps surly would be a lot shorter. Wouldn't you say? Lot less space & material required for a 2 to 1 ramp as opposed to a 20 to 1 ramp, to be sure!

Looks to me like the mechanical blades on this head are more like a ax as opposed to a broad head. No thank you! See factor number four in the link below.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...19+Terminal+Arrow+Performance+Update.pdf


Fourth place on his priority list. Hmmm

Shoot a well tuned arrow with a decent amount of weight to it. Doesn't have to have crazy FOC or be overly heavy. Shoot a well made broad head that is COC and I know it will give 90% of hunters out there a pass thru if put in the right spot.

Angle's sound important but in reality a Long "ramped" broad head and a Short "ramped" broad head are going to have roughly the same surface area. What gives an advantage is COC as it does not have the resistance to it that a chisel point does. The chisel point is poking its way thru opposed to the COC slicing its way thru.

In the case of the Hyde that 3/4" fixed COC is slicing a hole for those longer thinner blades to follow thru. In effect helping create less resistance.

I am not a big Mechanical fan, but there is a time and place for hyde's in my quiver. They have proven worthy in testing and in hunting (in fairness on one kill to date for me using it).

I am not here to sell anyone anything, use what you like and is legal in your states you hunt in. Some guys want to hear real world results of products they have not used.


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Guess I tend to get leery, if archers are overlooking No.4 of 1 thru 12. Question did they take in to consideration 1 through 3 much less 5 thru 12. Not saying we need to follow all 12 factors to a T to accomplish the task at hand in North America. Yet most guys do not get many opportunities to make it out in a season. So when they do, Ill encourage us to put some real forethought in to the task. We ow it to ourselves as well as the game we hunt.

Strive to make a good shot all of the time.

While accepting things are not going to go to plan all of the time.

While me and my 30 inch draw have a very good success rate over the past 15 years while shooting mechanicals most of that time. I also shot a 500ish grain arrow most of that time.

Last season I again had a very short blood trail while things went not exactly to plan. That one scared me to tell the truth. I was hunting with my then 9 year old son in a stand for the first time. 25 yard shot & like I have never seen B4, the deer dropped on the spot with a scalupula / Brachial plexus shot. The deer struggled to get up while bleeding out & a follow up shot finished the job a little quicker.

When I dressed the deer out I was disappointed to see the BH never even touched the opposite shoulder. In this case a light over all arrow weight was the primary factor in my mind why the penetration was less than optimum. End results were arguably stellar that time with an easy recovery. Still Ill strive for full through and through penetration.

Suppose I suspected my 30" draw length was going to allow me to get by with a lesser arrow weight. My bad.

This season Ill be perhaps going a lot overboard with a heavier arrow and perhaps a 2 blade single bevel BH. Perhaps Ill share this years results as well for better or worse.


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It is still hard to beat a fixed blade, but mechanicals make for easier tuning. Usually. But because of their design mechanicals have a longer length from tip to cutting surace and thinner blades, especially the large cut.

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Originally Posted by Hunterapp
So the Ashby "Crap" does not apply at any level to North American big game you say. While it may be a bit over kill I beg to differ as my experience leads me down a successful path due more to momentum COC FOC & I have been fortunate enough to put together a system with structural integrity. 280fps is nice though not for the individual pulling a 24" DL & shorter. Momentum B4 Velocity in my book & same goes for mechanical advantage over cut diameter. Just seen & read about too many lost critters where penetration was dismal for a variety of reasons.

IMHO reasons that top the list include inadequate Inertia due to insufficient mass & poor BH for the system utilized. Guys with 31" draw length have more options than the shorter draw length guys or the traditional archers is all I am saying.

Again...you do you. Just sick of seeing everyone bash on folks because they arent launching super heavy high foc arrows. Im a 27" draw. My arrows range from 375grns with 8% foc to 420grns with 14-15% foc. I run fixed blades and mech heads. Havent found a whitetail or hog able to hang onto one. Ive also outgrown the old wives tale of short bh bows in todays times being hard to shoot and not accurate. So yeah i enjoy speeds of over 300fps. And at 50 yds which is my self given max on game(although ive never taken a shot past 40) i can keep my groups nice and tight. Im a tech with 20+ yrs and know how to keep my equipment perfectly tuned.


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Originally Posted by 280Ackleyrized
Ive also outgrown the old wives tale of short bh bows in todays times being hard to shoot and not accurate.


They aren't hard to shoot and they certainly are accurate. However they are less forgiving.


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I use the NAP Spitfire Shockwaves. Group just like the field points and kill just like a fixed blade.


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Anyone have any experience with Thorn Archery mechanicals?

https://www.thornbroadheads.com/store

Thanks, Dinny


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Originally Posted by Slayer_mn1
I don’t even bother looking at mechanicals when I’ve never even had to question my faith in fixed blades. I just don’t see the appeal.


Same comment.

Last edited by dale06; 10/08/20.

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I gotta laugh, a marginal shot, "1" higher mch woulda been crying himself to sleep, instead it spined him, so its gtg. Target tip woulda done the same..


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While my older side prefers fixed blade stuff, from 40 years of trying to poke stuff with a stick, I’ve shot my share of mechanicals, and never had a failure. I have had muzzy 3 and 4 blade shear blades in small whitetail bones. The rest is great, but the blades were too thin. OTT, if it’s sharp, tough, has a decent cutting diameter without being so wide it’s more suited for turkeys than BG, and flies consistently true, then I don’t have many reservations about shooting it at something.....no matter what it is. Ramcats have been the most accurate lately, and stuff dies fast and leaves good directions too. I shoot cut on contact stuff only, in my stick bows.....but compounds have a surplus, and I’m usually dealing with ground damage to a broad head, as opposed to wondering where it fell out of the deer at.

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