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Am looking for load data from an old article published in Guns & Ammo. I believe it was written by Steve Timm.
About 30/06 with extended throat.
Any help appreciated.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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I'd like to read that as well.
What sorta thing do you have planned Rick?
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Long time ago... Steve Timm did an article in Handloader or Rifle on the 30-06 Ackley Improved which gave him some pretty high velocities, can't remember if he long throated it as well. MB
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Rick, What do you have in mind why you want to long throat it? Did you have a certain bullet in mind you wanted to use?
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Rick,
I Googled it and found the following summation from somebody who had a copy of the article:
"In a 22" M-700 with no modifcations other than "long throating", Timm reported the following ballistics:
150 Grain Bullet 3,150 fps
165 grain Bullet 2,970 fps
180 Gr. Nosler Part 2,850
200 Grain Nosler Part 2,780"
The guy did not say whether Steve had the loads pressure-tested in any way, but I did a little calculating using an older approximate rule for single-based powders, that any increase in pressure gains about half that percentage in velocity. The standard SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) for the .30-06 is 60,000 PSI, and increasing the pressure to 65,000 (the SAAMI MAP for the .270 Winchester, among other cartridges) would get very close to Steve's muzzle velocities, when using common handloads listed in various manuals. The "standard" velocity used to calculate the potential velocity for each load is listed second, in brackets:
150-grain bullet: 3125 fps [3000]
165-grain bullet: 3020 fps [2900]
180-grain bullet: 2865 fps [2750]
200-grain bullet: 2786 fps [2675]
Using a double-based powder increases the velocity potential.
Also, I have gotten velocities very close to those from a 22" barreled .30-06 without any of the "traditional" signs of high pressure, especially with 165-180 grain bullets.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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John,
Thank you.
Gentlemen,
I have a 30/06 in the works. It will likely be the finest rifle I have ever owned. It is built on a G33/40 action that Tommy Burgess reworked over 30 years ago. Then Mr Echols did further refinements and installed its barrel.
It is now in the most capable hands on the planet to have a stock made from an old hunk of quarter sawn old world walnut. Then a little engraving and rust bluing.
I have a long successful history with the 270. The 30/06 will make a perfect pair...lots of overlap but each is slightly superior for some applications. May need to drag it up North for a bear.
Last edited by RinB; 08/04/20.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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Rick, that sounds like a very nice rifle!
Excited to see a picture or two of it.
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I think I remember Steve posting about it as well. Maybe on here?
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Why long throat it if you are putting it in a shorter than normal box? The 700 Timm used has a 3.6" box, you got some mojo you aren't talking about? Just curious MB
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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I wonder how long Timm's throat was cut...my 30-06 700 allows for seating of common 180gr bullets about 3.45-3.5" long. The looong ogive bullets can seat as long as 3.55". I've not seen what I would call any velocity advantage from the longer throat.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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May need to drag it up North for a bear. That works.  Guy
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May need to drag it up North for a bear. That works. Guy Apparently even with a standard-length throat!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I am not planning to lengthen the throat given that it is a 98 type action. It’s magazine matches the throat as it is.
Actually I suspected that the LT data would be pretty close to the levels of performance that Mr Mule Deer referenced as being reachable at 270 pressures.
The moderate Big 30’s do gain an extra 100-125 fps but need a 24”+ barrel and more powder. They are more difficult to manage. Actually my rifle likes 168 TTSX @ 2900 from its 22” barrel. In a 7.5# all up package it will do everything I need to do.
I am pairing it with my 270. The only place more is needed is in Africa. As a kid I remember the 270 & 30/06 being referred to as “high-powered” cartridges. My future is back into the past.
Last edited by RinB; 08/04/20.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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John,
Thank you for taking the time to run your numbers for me. Now you can forever remind me than I have finally seen the truth regarding the 30/06.
Regards,
R
Last edited by RinB; 08/04/20.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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Scotty,
I will post pictures when it is complete but it will take the Maestro about a year to make the stock. His pace of work is slower now.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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A "Linda Lovelace" throating is the best . . . 
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Sounds like it'll be a helluva sweet rifle Rick. It's funny about the 06, I am working with mine a little and I am enjoying it a little bit. Quite the shooting difference from the 300 RUM then snatching onto the 30-06...
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Rick,
I Googled it and found the following summation from somebody who had a copy of the article:
"In a 22" M-700 with no modifcations other than "long throating", Timm reported the following ballistics:
150 Grain Bullet 3,150 fps
165 grain Bullet 2,970 fps
180 Gr. Nosler Part 2,850
200 Grain Nosler Part 2,780"
The guy did not say whether Steve had the loads pressure-tested in any way, but I did a little calculating using an older approximate rule for single-based powders, that any increase in pressure gains about half that percentage in velocity. The standard SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) for the .30-06 is 60,000 PSI, and increasing the pressure to 65,000 (the SAAMI MAP for the .270 Winchester, among other cartridges) would get very close to Steve's muzzle velocities, when using common handloads listed in various manuals. The "standard" velocity used to calculate the potential velocity for each load is listed second, in brackets:
150-grain bullet: 3125 fps [3000]
165-grain bullet: 3020 fps [2900]
180-grain bullet: 2865 fps [2750]
200-grain bullet: 2786 fps [2675]
Using a double-based powder increases the velocity potential.
Also, I have gotten velocities very close to those from a 22" barreled .30-06 without any of the "traditional" signs of high pressure, especially with 165-180 grain bullets.
ng
"150 Grain Bullet 3,150 fps 165 grain Bullet 2,970 fps 180 Gr. Nosler Part 2,850 200 Grain Nosler Part 2,780" Wow! Those velocities are approaching Magnum Country.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
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6.5 Staball is "said" to run the 150 @3150fps....I'm going to find out! I have some 150 TTSX loaded up, waiting until I get the rifle back from the smith to check final COAL lengths. I like to give any Mono a long run at the lands. I have long since ceased loading them any closer than .050, even at the start, usually I start at .10" off! I remember John Wooters long throated his 7mm RM for the 175 Nosler by .25" or so. This was long before R22 and such, but I don't remember just what powder he used then, I don't think even 7828 was available to handloaders then? sorry, I've "slept since then", forgot!
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John,
Thank you.
Gentlemen,
I have a 30/06 in the works. It will likely be the finest rifle I have ever owned. It is built on a G33/40 action that Tommy Burgess reworked over 30 years ago. Then Mr Echols did further refinements and installed its barrel.
It is now in the most capable hands on the planet to have a stock made from an old hunk of quarter sawn old world walnut. Then a little engraving and rust bluing.
I have a long successful history with the 270. The 30/06 will make a perfect pair...lots of overlap but each is slightly superior for some applications. May need to drag it up North for a bear. I'm really looking forward to seeing pics of this rifle when it's complete. I read through the thread and I think I have gleaned that this is NOT the rifle you are planning to load to >60K PSI. Is that right? I like a hot load as much as the next fella, but a precious work of art on a small ring Mauser action would be near my last choice to shoot one in. Cheers, Rex
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