Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Indian Artifacts - Volume II

Here's some more knock offs from the past week - all obsidian:





Barkoff: With a little bit of science points can be approximately dated. When stones are fractured, one has a new surface that's not been exposed to air. At a microscopic pace, airborne moisture begins to migrate toward the interior leaving a visible front as it advances. With knowledge of that rate for our various kinds of stones, archi - types can break out their microscopes, measure the depth of moisture penetration from extracted slices, and come up with an approximate date for when that surface was initially exposed.

Hydration dating link

Also, I'm not knowledgeable on the sample volume needed, but if biologic materials seeped into surface cracks or beneath partially detached flakes, they may be able to carbon date those. They can also date associated materials from digs and come up with approximate dates. The scientific types prefer finds that can be dated, where as museums etc have little interest in collections having no history.

Buried material will typically have less patina and whatever it carries is usually uniform across all surfaces. Materials on the surface for extended periods will have less patina on the side contacting soil and more mineral deposits on the upside where rain and moisture left minerals to be baked into that surface. That can be a rapid process though in areas with alkaline soils, and points I've left outside can acquire that look in a couple years. Bright on the bottom and dull on top.

A cue for me is flakes that do not completely detach from a point's surface, and near every point I generate carries a few examples. In freeze/thaw environments, moisture can creep beneath those flakes and freezing induced expansion eventually detaches them leaving a smoother unmarred surface. One can immerse new points in hot water, and moisture will get vacuumed into those voids as things cool. Put those in a freezer, and a number of them will detach. Typically takes geologic time and many cycles though for all of them to be forced off.

Lastly, today's knappers mostly resort to modern material for their tools. Antler and bone dull and wear out in short order, and one can be considerably more productive if he's not constantly replacing/sharpening tools. Copper is most commonly employed, with some using softer steels like horse shoe nails. Some high powered chemistry can likely detect those residues.

Have a good one,

only a busted spud tip today....

Good information 1minute. The different colors of obsidian are a bonus. Do you end up selling your creations?

erikj:



It's just and hobby, and I've never directly sold a single point. Do shadow box a couple now and then as donations to our Hunter Ed program or Rod and Gun Club fund raisers. Usually go for 125 to $200 at auction, but that's an environment where there might be 200 to 300 bidders around, and there's usually at least two that are interested. Boxed a few up and dispersed them as cheap Christmas gifts to the family and in laws last Christmas. Shadow boxes are only 5 or $6. A lot cheaper than the typical Hickory Farms food basket.

I'm aware of a couple locals that generate some huge and exceptionally well flaked knives and points. They start, however, with rock sawed slabs cut to shape and that facilitates systematic and near perfect herring bone flaking. Likely the guy at this link starts with sawed slabs ( Points for sale link (just an example and not affiliated with that site in any way)). I just start with a rock and hammer them out. About 90% of the effort is percussion flaking to clean up the surfaces, thin and shape, and then some pressure flaking to straighten the edges and chip out notches.

Cookie is tiring of the accumulation and suggesting I box some up and do a run to some high dollar craft fair. Did have a gentleman recently express interest in purchasing some for resale in a nearby tourist mecca. I quoted $15 an inch and he never blinked, but I've not gotten back to him. Then again, if it became a business, such might just ruin a relaxing hobby. Same goes for fly tying, rod building, stock making, and Cookie's photo efforts. Life is comfortable for us as we're retired, not stressed for funds, and live at our own pace.

Have a good one,

Sounds like you have that retired lifestyle figured out. 👍 Thanks for sharing.

Have you guys ever found a point and bones in the same area? As if the point used killed the animal they were hunting? I’ve wondered about some of those broken points and if they broke after hitting bone.

This is a cool, informative and interesting thread. 👍

You are on a roll, Don!

I like that middle point a bunch!



Used to all the time, in certain areas... Yes.

The main reason being that when they had a campsite, they would sit around the fire and eat, and repair shafts/add new points.

Native Americans were VERY superstitious about blood. When a point had drawn blood, it was removed and discarded. That's why you find so many perfect points in Indian camps. (And broken ones... and chipped flint from making new points)

They were so superstitious about blood, that a women on her period was banished to a particular bleeding spot/lodge. They didn't emerge until done. If a woman on her period walked around the camp, and her shadow fell across a male member of the tribe, it was considered very bad medicine. (Or maybe the braves were just smart enough to get shut of them and isolate them during that time of month..? )

Not found any associated bones here in E. Oregon, but then again we are not famous for having great numbers of large animals around. A few bison, but evidence suggests they were an inbred lot. Given our coyotes and rodents, I think calcium would have to be buried if it was to endure for 100+ years. I have seen a few long bones with an iron or steel point embedded at flea markets. No idea though as to their authenticity, and never seen any with stone points. In this environment (sagebrush desert), shafts were a much more valuable commodity than points.

Huntsman: Nice finds and a great pic. Keep it up,

Never found bone with points, around here in SE Arizona, the main culture was Mogollon, which were roaming around here 1200 or so years ago....long time for any bone to survive? I have found two bone implements, which were buried about 3ft beneath the surface, and only found because a thumb tip size portion of knuckle was sticking out of a dirt bank along a arroyo cut. I always believed it to be something to make the lip of a pot, but maybe there are some of you in the know on these type of tools and can tell me your thoughts? Its color is rich brown and feels waxy to the touch, like it must have been fat/oil soaked, it's like aged ivory in appearance?

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I do find this thread extremely interesting and informative. I’ll have to spend more time looking at my feet and less time looking at where I’m going. 😁. Kinda the opposite of what my grandpa would tell me when I was young.

1minute...you do some fine work, just like your wife does with her camera. 👍. Having spent some time in your neck of the woods I can imagine the value in good shafts. Do you have Mock Orange in the riparian areas? Where I grew up in Eastern Washington we had a lot of Mock Orange which, as I understand it, was often used for shafts. There are various forms of Mock Orange across the country but I guess I’m wondering specifically about the Philadelpheus Lewisii (recalling from memory) variant that’s common to Eastern Washington?

AcesNeights:

Some Mock Orange in our forest and along some riparian zones but moisture limited in our eastern Oregon sage brush country. Shafts ouy here were mostly willow, wild rose, and some of the hardier reeds.

That bone looks like part of a humerus.

3 hours of scouring the prairie yielded one busted tip.....

Put up a few pics of some of today's knapping efforts over in another thread. Go HERE to have a look.

My collection is small compared to some on here. Impressive collections to say the least. 1minute must be part Indian, he makes some great points. Mostly from Colorado and Wyoming when hunting and spring trapping back in the 70’s and 80’s. One was even found on a ground squirrel burrow after i shot it.
Wish I could of found the rest of the big one, sure tried.


find nearest diesel fuel

Smallest point Ive found, spotted it while riding a motor cycle cross country years ago....had an eye for them back then! This bead has a good story. Was just north of the house in the desert with my son, he was maybe 12?, asked if I had ever found any beads. I told him the local alcoholic artifact hunter told me to look in the gravel mounds of ant hills for that kind of stuff. I'll be damned if at the first ant hill, my son picked this out of the gravel hill.

Yes. Out in our desert country, the harvester ant mounds are great places for finds. Usually 8 or 9 square yds of bare soil.

found a broke mid-section, and a dandy little un-notched point. Kinda pink with white specks. Haven't seen this material hereabouts before....