Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats 358 winchester - 'modern' style?

I've got a M7 predator in 243 win one of the sweetest handling hunting rifles I've ever used on antelope and wouldn't even consider modifying the barrel with a rebore till it's shot out. 358? Think I'll just load my Whelen down a notch and see if that makes me wax eloquently but if I run my Whelen at Whelen speeds is it only good for 125 yds? I better drink some more coffee and do some work before all this theoretical stuff dazes me. MB

The latest Hornady load manual is telling, illustrating the basic physics that. for a given bullet weight, and pressure, the .358 Win has to be able to achieve higher velocity than the .338 Fed.
With the 200 grain spire points, Hornady got 2700 FPS in the .358 Win with TAC, but only 2650 in the .338 Fed. This mirrors Mule Deer's results in his Handloader #254 article.

If you want to see the .358 come alive, try the 200 TTSX with however much TAC gets you 2700 FPS. It took Hornady (IIRC) 52.4 grains. Mule Deer got about 2745 with the 200 TSX and 52/TAC.
My rifle is a Savage 99, so I back it off to 51 grains for 2685 (though I shot it last week at 95 degrees and it went just over 2700).

Then go run the numbers for energy and trajectory. Note these are at 7300' MSL, the elevation where I'll hunt elk this fall.
3" high at 100 yards, +2.1" at 200, on at 240, 5" low at 300, 18" low at 400 (hold on the hairline, center-punch the vitals). 1840 ft-lbs at 400, with over 2000 FPS to expand the TTSX. I don't expect or want to shoot an elk at 400 with my .358, but could if I had to.

I've no doubt the .338 Fed would pass (or at least catch up to) the .358 somewhere out there, but the .358 is punching a little bigger hole.
I recently got some 200 NABs but I fear they won't work too well in the .358 due to the ogive being almost into the case when loaded to short action OAL. I can hold up to 2.9" in the savage though, so maybe they'll be OK.

Cheers,
Rex

I come back to this every now and then for some humor. I guess the time for another good wisecrack is over. Too bad. Maybe gun rags have gone past their usefulness. Be Well, Rustyzipper.

“Deer or moose out to three hundred with little time to range” (paraphrase mine) — Forget the telescope and think 4x, 6x, 1.5-5, 13/4-6x, or 2-7x and forget the turrets. Sight in at 200 yds and you will have no hold over on an elk or moose and barely any on a big deer.

Bingo, point and kill. It ain’t rocket surgery.

I miss that one bad!!

My SilencerCo Hybrid-46 would work fine for the 358. Got me thinking about converting a Ruger #3.

Let me be the one wet blanket in all this.

I retired my "Whelenizer" in 2014. It is a Rem 7600 in 35 Whelen that I downloaded to 358 WIN-ish levels. I shot 200 grain RN out of it through most of its career. It produced 1-2 deer a year. My reason for the download was that I was never going to be shooting more than 250 yards with it, and the game was going to be 100% whitetail. The extra shock and awe just wasn't needed.

Honestly, I never saw the huge dividend in power. Yes, it had a distinctive report. Everyone on nearby ridges knew when I'd taken a shot. Yes, it was a bit more recoil than my 30-06. No, it didn't make the deer any deader. I'm not going to say it was a bust. 10 deer in 10 years is a pretty good record. However, I went back to a 30-06 shooting 165 grainers, and immediately went returned to DRT toes-in-the-air performance. The deer I shot would all die. However, they were more prone to running a bit. I'd say on average 70 yards or so.

Was that significant? It meant that more often I'd have to cross a fence and pull the deer out into the pasture. Some people would say it was a negligible difference.

You have to understand that I frequently fill my last tag in the latter part of the season when its getting rather inclement. I often take to my luxury blind, and its from there that I shoot my last doe. The shots are uniformly at 150-175 yards and I'm firing off a sand bag. This is about as close as you can get to an apples-to-apples comparison. Dropping them in the middle of the field also gives me the bonus of a chance to roll the truck right up and load them without any fuss.

I'm not going to say 358 WIN or 35 Whelen is a flop on whitetail. I'm just saying I did not see a huge performance boost. Someone somewhere suggested I try anchoring them in the shoulder. I tried that. The result was an anchored animal, but major devastation and an unusable shoulder roast.

One other note: I started using an 8X57 Kar 98 for the past few years, and I've been equally impressed with it as far as its shot-n-drop capabilities.

Shaman: The reason you had that result is that you were running the wrong bullet at the wrong speeds for the distances you were hunting.

Starting at .358 Winchester velocities, a round nose 200gr .358 bullet is no better than a mild factory 35 Remington load by 100 yards. At 175 yards that bullet (the way you loaded it) is basically like a .357 magnum load from a carbine. All of which is to say: of course you were not getting any bang-flops. Your results were basically predictable.

Run a sleeker bullet at appropriate speeds to your hunting distances and you will get the full Whelen experience. You can verify this for yourself by buying one box of factory 200gr superformance loads. At 175 yards they should still be going fast enough to clobber deer, not just kill them.

Folks don’t be afraid to use a 225 Sierra
Higher BC.
You’re welcome 😉

Next week I'm going to a local friend's range to shoot my Lone Eagle. It is a fun gun. I have only killed one doe with it. I figure some time this season I will try it out on deer. I suppose with a 358 Winchester in a pistol I will have to get within 20 feet, eh gunswizard? Be Well, RZ.

That’s a fact. Not a better deer killer in my book. Pretty accurate in both my Whelen and 358.

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.co...8E_B973_79395893B9FA_IMG_6398.HEIC[/img]

To me, all one needs are 2 bullets for a 358 for game. The 225 Sierra, and if one goes after really big stuff, the 225 Partition. Odds may well be the Sierra will dump the larger game just as well.

For plinking, the 158 handgun bullets are loads of fun, less recoil, move out fast, but fall off after 200 yds......though could do in deer up to around 250 yds on lung shots..though I'd never substitute for a 225, unless woods hunting at a reduced load. 2000 fps like a 357 mag rifle will dump deer fine in the woods.

Other than that, the 125 and 140 JHP would be hell on varmints, if one wanted to vaporize say crows and coyotes........

But for deer and up, give me a 225 in any 35 and I will be happy.

That's all I run in my 358's and whelen, neither need to run designer bullets to make meat..