Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Elmer's Folly

Here's a comparison of a 45 caliber 1917 Colt and a 29-2. This isn't to insinuate the heat treatment of the old gun is on par with the 29-2, it's just to show the Triple Lock wasn't the most rugged, best platform of the time to house what Elmer was searching for. In actuality, the Triple Lock had an even smaller cylinder than the Second Model hand ejector...






Notice where the bolt notches are cut on each cylinder.

This is all food for thought, but my inclination is that Elmer avoided the New Service as a viable 45 Colt platform simply because it didn't fit his hand.

And the Colt is ugly compared to the Smith.

I’ve never owned one, but wasn’t the 1917 Colt chambered for 45 ACP?

The 1917 was chambered in 45 ACP, 455 and 45 Colt, same for the First Model hand ejector 1917 Smiths. Commercial versions of both were chambered in 44 Russian and 44 Special, 38 Special, 357, 45 Colt and 44/40 and perhaps some other errant chamberings.

The gun pictured was arsenal refinished (parked) and probably reworked for battle in 1941. So yeah, it ain't "pretty".

They made pretty ones too...
Colt Shooting Master/New Service Target

How dare you.

Elmer couldn't shoot.

Will put you on the prayer list.

I think the New Century was also popular with Texas Rangers of the time. I believe those guys would have been very well aquainted with 45Colt and Colt. New Service revolvers. I've always wondered about it. Don't know if they handloaded their 44spl ammo or used the slowish factory ammo. Maybe the hand work in the S&W trumped power??? The big Colt in 45 Colt was very popular with RCMP. A very prestigious law enforcement agency at that time.

I wish we had more access to the thoughts and opinions of the men that used both.

Coulda been Elmer was just a S&W guy.

Elmer blew up a .45 Colt revolver which is why he started concentrating on hot rodding the .44 Special, more meat in the chamber walls. All he wanted was his Keith bullet at 1200 fps (or maybe it was 1250), when Remington gave him the .44 Magnum at 1400 fps I'm sure he was very happy.

Most of the guys who were heavy into DA shooting preferred the S&W action because the Colt took a good deal of tuning before the action matched the S&W. Colt's were always smooth, but serious DA people didn't care for the stacking, and it take a lot of practice re-shaping Colt V springs to take out that stacking without creating a light strike condition. What's more the S&W's are easier to work on.

But the Colt's were certainly stronger, both in the large New Service frame, and the medium E / I frame. While S&W chambered the .38/44 High Speed in their large frame revolvers, the Colt E frame Official Police was rated for the new hot .38 Special round from the get go.

The Triple Lock did not have the heat treating / metallurgy that later S&W revolvers received, especially with SR 80 Sorting Rifle powder Elmer used to develop his ranch loads.

That makes sense for sure.

By the same token, the early N frame Smiths didnt offer much in the way of cocking the hammer in single action. The hammer spurs had to be tricky to operate with a gloved hand.

They were rounded, slick and miniscule compared to a New Service hammer.

And Elmer wasnt a dyed in the wool Smith guy until after WWII, when Colt had no revolver cartridge cataloged over 38/357.
Until the 44 Magnum was created, the No. 5 SA was his favorite sidearm.

Let me ask the ILLUMINATED ILLUMINATI a question. You mean he didnt carry a 1950 Model Target 4 inch 44 Special prior to the 44 Magnum. Now surely the Braniacs ought to know the answer to that question since they are DEVOTED, much DEVOTED Keith fans.
Educate me on this.

Post Flomax.

Have been reading articles about and by Elmer Keith for 60+ years and the only handgun I ever recall him "blowing up" was a .45 Colt SAA...a case web from an old style balloon head case ruptured and it blew the loading gate off the gun... Neither the cylinder or frame let go...just the brass. I would hardly call that "blowing up" a gun. Anyone know what the damage to the gun was other than having to have the reloading gate put back on...

Keith got away from SAAs as his primary handgun LONG before the advent of the .44 Magnum in the mid 1950s. Before the .44 Magnum came out Keith carried a 4" 1950 Target in .44 Special and before that the Triple Lock. Read his books...it is all there in print.

Keith and many other of his time ran the .44 Special up to 1200 fps with 250 grain bullets without beating guns to death. All the .44 Magnum did was add 200 fps to the top end and factory approved loads and guns to do it...

Bob

EK was also freinds with industry reps and premiere gun smiths of that time. People like John Fitzgerald, and Herold Croft come to mind. I'm sure he was very familiar with the big Colt's attributes. In addition to the mentioned DA trigger issues, the S&W came with excellent adjustable sights.

Someone else that seems to have over looked the New Service was Dick Casull. He chose the SAA for his 45 magnum platform. Apparently they could be had cheap and weren't the collectors gold back then. He did blow up guns testing strength until he determined the one's made after serial #192,000 were of superior strength. Then he used his own special heat treatment.

I just wish I had a New Service..........
Maybe someday....

Yeah, I've read his books.

That's my understanding on the 45 Colt "incident".
I've also never seen any of his personal Colt New Services.

Elmer going away from SAA's, particularly the No. 5, I don't agree with. "The Last Word" was penned in 1929, along with the public introduction of the 429421. Elmer had a Triple Lock for sure and perhaps a target 1926 by then, two guns he wrote about often. Why would he build what he considered "the perfect sixgun", according to "The Last Word" on a single action? Part of the reason, and its mere speculation (that makes sense), is size. Elmer carried his guns everywhere and part of that needs considered is wearing a 6.5 inch N frame Smith on his hip.
To my knowledge, his Triple Lock Target, Outdoorsman and the 1926 Target, that he supposedly abandoned the No.5 for, all had factory original, unmodified target barrels of the era. All three of these guns were standard target barrels of the era, 6.5 inch guns. The No. 5 was a bit shorter than those, but longer and std. SAA sized compared to the Croft guns it was based on. It was designed to be worn on the hip, along with the Lawrence holster he carried it in.
If one reads Sixguns (1955), it leaves the impression that 4" target sighted Smith 44 Specials existed way before 1950....and the 44 Magnum was decades later. Not so.

Brian Pearce wrote about the 1929 article when he built his own replica. He states: "During the next 25 years, it was used so heavily that it was reblued three times (according to Keith's gunsmith of 30 years)".

Ross Seyfried stated it was Elmer's favorite handgun, but when the 44 Magnum appeared, it became a top drawer, rather than right hip handgun, because Elmer was about horsepower, or something to that effect. I don't have the direct quote in front me.

Sure, if you read Sixguns, one would get the impression he left single actions in the 1920's, but he prodded Ruger numerous times to the point of the Super Blackhawk and after his death, the Ruger Bisley.
In 1978 he wrote three columns on the return of the single action.

Good banter.