Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders T/C Encore - conicals are keyholing

I am assisting some family members fine tune their Encores for an upcoming CO elk hunt. On five separate occasions we have recently experienced perfect keyholing from a 50-yd benchrest. Here's the load recipe: No Excuses 460 gr cast (.502" dia), powder (80 to 90 grains) - both Triple 7 and BH209, with Winchester and Cheddite primers, respectively. Using bullet test kits, each barrel was previously slugged and both bores measured .502".

During each shooting session, the breech plug was removed and barrels were cleaned with several patches between shots. Even without the keyholing, accuracy was marginal at best. I should add that the T/C QLAs have been removed and the muzzles professionally recrowned. Both rifles are identical except we all know every rifle is different.

Coincidentally, that same recipe shoots well and flies true in my TC Triumph.

I finally found that the 350 Federal BorLok bullets provided acceptable 50- yd accuracy with those same loads.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks and be well. DJB

BH209 needs a tight bullet to allow it to build up pressure.

Mine shoots 240 grain Hornady sabots with 80 grains weight BH209. Very accurate at 100 yards. It did open up a but when the rifling built up plastic. I clean it now with a shotgun wad cleaner and have no issues.
I would try running a flitz patch and see if the rifling had lead.
Grice had those BorLoks blems super cheap, and I think they have them available in the center isle when you walk in. 350 is a nice chunk of lead.

Many years ago when I moved from a TC Hawken to an Encore, I tried to use 400 grain maxi-balls -- that had worked well in the Hawken -- in the Encore. The results were terrible. Sabots and especially Powerbelts all shoot extremely well in the Encore.

Hunters are stuck with full bore conicals for CO elk hunting.
I actually purchased the Federals at Grice earlier this year.
You're right - blems were cheap.
Thanks.

Well, i know plenty of people shooting lead conicals with BH209 including match winners at Friendship but the OP had the issue with T7 also. Plus BH209 shoots fine in his Triumph. Something else is going on here if 2 powders are both shooting the occasional keyhole and poor accuracy.

Could the 1:28 twist be marginal for the 460gr No Excuses bullet?

1-28 should be fine for a 50cal 460gr. Ive seen a guy shoot an Encore 50 at Friendship do great shooting at least a 460gr conical. I think it was actually over 500gr. That was a few years back.

My guess is NoExcuses sent out some conicals that are not dead soft lead. I know this has happened before. Ive seen the Cabin Tree hardness test done by a friend. They can still shoot you just need to do more tinkering. Something as simple as a hard fiber wad might smack it more than a wool. You will get a better seal for sure. If you got some sabots you can cut the petals off and use them as a wad. MMP sells sub bases but i would not buy them unless a cut down sabot works first.

Went back and checked some notes. Rick Weber placed 2nd and Jason Day placed 3rd in 2013. Both shot Encore 50s and lead conicals over 500gr but used Swiss. Im fairly sure both used stock barrels but they probably had the QLAs removed. Not all my score cards are complete with powder and projectile. Ive shot quite a few conicals with BH209 but not in a 50cal. They can shoot very very well with the right combination.

If I were dead set on those bullets, I'd push one down the barrel and see if it engraves.

Heavy Power Belts or Hornady FPBs are possibilities.

We had purchased the trial packs of No Ex bullets (ranging in size from .501 to .505). The .502s required what I would guess to be 10-15 # of loading pressure in a primer fouled bore. We inverted the barrel and placed in a bathroom scale. Bullets were definitely engraved in both Encore barrels. The .503s required a lot of pressure so we settled on .502s. I may try a light wrap of teflon tape.

If that doesn't help, they'll be using the Federal BorLocks. Time is running short.

Thanks all.

TC's have a horrible reputation at shooting conical bullets due to their often, off center QLA muzzle.

Yep, that's gotta be it:

QLA was already turned off and muzzle professional recrowned on both rifles

I always shoot what works.
fighting something that isn't going well after the testing you have already done is just wasting powder.

Maybe something here can help - https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/accuracy-with-the-no-excuses-50-cal-460gr-bullet.46166/

Even with the QLA, my TC Black Diamond I had and now the TC Impact would not shoot maxiballs, but both shot Power belts very well.I have a 1977 era TC Hawkin with the QLA and it is on the 3rd barrel. I have never had a problem withe QLA and it shoots 170 gr patched round balls, TC Maxi hunters, and TC Maxiballs very well. I have used Swiss, 777, Pyrodex and BH209. Go buy some 348 gr Powerbelts. If you are worried about more penetration buy the Platinum. Then Settle on 80gr of BH209. I have probably killed about a dozen elk with the heavier Powerbelts and a few with the 295 gr..

I hear too many stories of guys having trouble shooting those boutique bullets. At ML velocities,you do not need a pure copper bullets either, but if you push the PB"s too fast, they expand too much.. Lot of guys over think this muzzle loader stuff.

Just looked. My Natchez cataolg does not show the 348 gr in50 cal,but a 338 gr Platinum.

You also might try applying Dyna Tec to the bore if you are getting leading .

These shoot very very well using PRB!!

IMG_2283 by Sharps Man, on [bleep]

Seems like lotsa folks have to learn the hard way! In the case of those wanting to hunt the ML season....they go out and buy the latest break-over that is being pushed and mount a scope with and objective lens as big as a lard bucket and then try using the latest and greatest propellant that their hardware store sells, which when is burned is about like shooting a load of fine gravel through the bore. On top of all this they purchase some projectiles/bullets that for them won't hit the outhouse and then they holler bloody murder because they can't hit a 9" pie plate from 50 yards. "Somethings wrong with my bullets...they're hitting sideways!" No s hit Sherlock!! It might behoove some to investigate the rate of twist in the barrel of the 'funderbuss' they purchased in conjunction with the length of the bullet they've purchased! Hellsfire....deliver me! Who'd have ever thought this would have been important?? Heaven forbid....don't ask the guy that was behind the counter at Wally World cuz that dude just got there 15 minutes before you arrived as he was over in the women's department selling panties!!

Golly gee wiz Gomer, aint nuthin 2 fancy bout them No X Cuses bullets. Aint never seen them at Wally's world or no hardware stores around these parts either.

Revolver bullets!