Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Big Fires in Ca., again

Fuel management around structures and along roads and powerlines is important.

Fires do happen, but it seems CA makes it tough to mitigate some of the risks through fuel management.

I wouldn't wish destruction by wildfire on anyone.

Seems to me that it would be a good opportunity to collect the insurance money and use it to move to a non Commie state.

Bingo. Add this to the long list of issues and anyone with a chance is probably getting out.

Yes, a lot of homes are lost from either being in the middle of a dense forest with plenty of fuel around them. Choosing to live there is like folks who build tin homes in hurricane prone places.

At Markley Cove Marina a covered boat dock protected most of the private boats, but the rest of the dock that had no cover lost most of any boats tied up. Plastic kayaks in the video I saw show embers fell on them and melted part of the 2 I saw.

Several folks here are Biased against California, just chalk it up to ignorance. They want to slam the politicians, stupid laws and blame those who stay / live here as part of the problem. But, I am sure if you go after negative things in their home state, they'll just blame the politicians, not themselves for not doing what they want us to do in order to fix our own state.

Some posters just can't help but " type mean ", you wonder what their upbringing was. In the country we call them culls.

+1

In Idaho, we were raised to be biased against Californians who moved into Idaho. Sometimes the bias was justified but mostly, it was not. I've moved around quite a bit and have found the a--hole percentage to be fairly consistent regardless of the locale. GD

Not necessarily so. And CA is not the only place "that makes it tough to mitigate some of the risks". Might be true in certain circumstances, but it's just as true in other States I've lived in like AZ and WA, and close by in OR. I can't speak to MT as I haven't lived or worked there.

Fuel management in the "urban/wildland" interface as they are calling it is problematic at best. I've tried to explain this a few times over the past couple of years. It's not as easy or simple as one might think.

First, many of the folks that move to those areas do so for a reason, so they don't have to see cities, live in the open sunlight 300+ days a year, get away from the heat of the valleys, and they are the first to complain about removing trees (of any size at times) , doing controlled burns of underbrush and slash from when there are thinning operations, or in anyway altering their idyllic views of their new space. Some States, CA is one, where in many cases these interfaces are close enough for folks to commute to their high paying jobs in the cities and suburbs.

Second, in many places the areas that need addressed are NOT commercially viable for fuel reduction. It would have to be done at the taxpayers expense. Many many times these fires start in areas that are sagebrush grasslands, or in chaparral and then they move uphill (typical fire behavior) into merchantable timber. Yes, in some places there are too many pecker pole pines and firs, which are the ones that need removed for the purposes of suppressing catastrophic fires. Fully grown mature trees will generally survive a low lever fire. Pecker poles and underbrush just serve as ladder fuels. No one is going in after them unless the taxpayers cough up big bucks to do so.

Third, and in many cases these are folks that don't live in the area and don't have a friggen clue, are the lawsuits filed by Save the Trees, Save the Donkeys and Horses, and others. When, and it happens more than most folks have a clue, an agency (State Forestry Dept, USFS, BLM, etc) puts together a plan for a fuel reduction program in an area, the first thing that happens is that the lawsuits start within days of publishing the plan.

Actually, much time and energy (taxpayer $$$) is spent before the document is even finalized and signed by a supervisor. Having had many friends and relatives that worked for these various agencies, and having seen the process first hand, I know of what I speak. Come up with the best plan, using the most cost effective methods available (Civilian Conservation Corp, Inmate labor, adding some thinning and brush removal requirements to a timber plan) , they still can't get the plan approved due to the suits (law and the tie wearing kind). Then again, the timber folks don't want to deal with that "thinning and brush removal" stuff either, eats into the profit margin.

It's not always easy in jurisdictions where lawsuits aren't an issue. One of the largest fires in AZ history, the Rodeo-Chedski fire, had a major component start in the foothills on TRIBAL land. They actually are doing a decent job by many standards of managing their forest, as they don't have to deal with the regulations and lawsuits as many other entities do. But, again, this fire (combined two fires) started on the lower slopes and in chaparral and desert scrub, then moved into the bigger stuff. If they hadn't been able to stop it's movement at the Rim Road, the City of Pinetop-Lakeside would have looked like Paradise CA. As it was, Heber and some of the other smaller communities were hit pretty hard. Right across the Rim Road are homes with, in some cases, 80 trees per acre, not 8 as is recommended. Many of those homes are summer and winter recreation homes for folks from Phoenix, Tuscon, and other desert areas. The fire folks have tried many times to get them to thin trees, but the answer is "we moved up here to be in the shade, not the sun like down home".

As easy as it might seem to say "fuel management" it's much harder to put it into practical use. Saw the same thing in San Diego county in the 70's with the Laguna fire. Big talk afterwards saying we need more prescribed burns, more firebreaks, let's use goats, blah blah blah. Over time more and more commuters moved out to that backcountry, 45-60 minute drive from their jobs in town, and guess what? Twice in the last 20 years the same areas have burned again. This time many more properties got blackened. And more Blah Blah Blah from everyone involved.............but no word on who's going to cough up the $$$$$$$.

Not in my backyard is sometimes the same as Not From My Wallet.

Around here, sagebrush/juniper/grassland burns really well. I'm surrounded by it. No commercial value other than grazing and some firewood, but our county of 10K souls can only burn so many cords of wood a winter. I keep a 30'-40' cleared area around our place, down to about grass 4" tall with some short native plants left alone for the birds to hide in and deer to browse. The local fire guys have told me mine is one of the places they'll attempt to save if a fire comes through. The folks that lets scheidt grow right up to the house are farther down that list.

Rant over, hope you guys have a better feel for the real story out here. Once again, the REAL story is money and who will or won't come up with it.

+1 for Greydog

Good point Greydog. I recall in the early 80's finding out Oregonians dislike of a California license plate. No doubt folks who live in an area for some time, find everything there to their liking, sure dislike any change, especially from transplants. Folks can't find a place they like before moving in, then want to " make the place better" by F-ing it up to their liking.

Good post Geno, lots of good information.

My son worked the Angora fire and it got a few of the homes by "THE Y" of south lake Tahoe. A friend bought a home there~ 5 years ago, and they told us the city said it's illegal to remove pine needles from their yard!!!

Small comment from a small person.

I think I'd have a pine needle midnight removal program going there. Use a game cam, get some black hoodies and pants, some Corona masks, and black bags. Find a place out in the forest and make a midnight spreading sorty.

If the city got after me I'd show them the pics of the bad men in the black suits and tell them there was nothing I could do to stop them.

My wife and stepson are driving through it right now. Fire is right on the highway.

Are they on hwy 80 around Nevada city?

I'm going up tomorrow to our small property in CA near Nevada. It's a spot I got that's between two of my favorite fishing lakes and is a bit remote. It has no cell coverage, TV reception, or utilities.

I'm going there to survey any possible smoke damage from the big Loyalton fire that was caused by lightning.

I'm thinking MAC is prolly a good man. A Veteran and I have to give him props for that regardless of how much he pisses me off. I reckon he's just a little frustrated with liberal's like we all are. I've said my share of stupid chit on here.

Yessir.

Most people outside of California and who live in States that are presently regarded as conservative have a deep, abiding fear of becoming like what California presently is. California is an easy punching bag but with more registered Republicans than any other state.

If Texas or Florida flips it’ll be just about over.

The good people of California have suffered enough for a long while and now have to contend with these annual fires.

Thanks to the guys not bashing CA. 50 years ago before I retired I was a building and grounds manager for the University of CA. Santa Cruz. In those days we had a very active fire prevention campaign especially on the main campus which was comprised of 2000 acres. Besides mowing and discing especially on the lower campus we also had cattle to feed down the lower grasslands. In the upper forested and grasslands of the campus I used an independent contractor for prescribed burning in the forested areas and California Division of Forestry for prescription burning in the grasslands. This was a great program and CDF was happy to help as they could practice backfiring etc. They had personnel that specialized in this at this time. This went on for a number of years until it stopped all of a sudden One of their foresters pulled me aside and explained what happened. It was decided in Sacramento that for more funding it was better to fight fires than prevent them. This is exactly why California is in the fix it is in now as I was only a small example but it was throughout the state that this mindset took over.

268... used to goof around on that campus quite a bit visiting a friend who attended.
You’ve probably seen but Big Basin Park headquarters campgrounds and all other buildings are toast. That’s a damn sad sight

Oldman3: Yes indeed the smoke from the multitude of fires in kalifornicationkopia is now HEAVY here in western Montana!
Now no one on this earth despises kalifornicationkopia MORE than I do.
And no one on this earth holds kalifornicationkopians in LOWER esteem than I do, but I do not want to see any of those asswholes, liberals, anti-Americans, liberals, fruits and nuts burnt to death!
As stupid as those bastards are collectively I don't wish painful death upon them.
Sad state that kalifornicationkopia.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Oh brother.