Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Green Hills of Africa.

Anyone read it?
I am really enjoying it.
Hemingway 1935.

Great read.
I have read it several times.

As good as it gets.

RS

One of my favorite Hemingways.

About the only thing I like better are the Nick Adams stories

Classic Hemingway. Been a while, I should read it again.....but it'll just make me want to go hunt Africa and unfortunately that isn't happening anytime soon. But then, Hemingway is the next best thing to being there.

Very true.
I can about see every shot.
Though the section on reading Tolstoy etc is not late nite material.
Had to pause until I had sufficient attention to tackle that bit..

When men were men.

My favorite Hemingway book.

I'll be the dissenting vote here. I've always found his writing style hard to follow.

I've read it more than once. It's a great book. I'm a fan of Hemingway the character more than Hemingway the writer.

Hemingway spends a considerable amount of the book interjecting two of his favorite themes - competition and jealously. His competition with "Karl" (who was his Key West buddy Charles Thompson) I'm sure was real. His dressing down for his petty jealously by Phillip Percival was equally as real.

All this really does give the reader a sense of what it would have been like to go on safari with EH. You would have lectures on novelists, drinks in the evening, you would have been subjected to Eh's competitiveness, which would have been on everything from the quality of trophies, to backgammon to flirting with the girls on the ship cruising to and from NY. That was Hemingway. Charles Thompson was exposed to Hemingway's fits of moodiness when his trophies weren't the tops in camp, and I'm sure that soured more than a couple of evenings around the fire.

I wish Hemingway spent more time talking about Percival, considered the "dean" of the East African PH's, as well as more time telling the reader which part of Tanzania (Tanganyika in those days) he was in. I wish he had written it as Hemingway the newspaperman rather than Hemingway the novelist, but I still love the book, but...

Is it heresy to say that I enjoyed Ruark more?

Hatari: I'm with you 100% on Ruark. Like you, I am much more of a fan of the persona than his writings, especially given my family's connection to him. I wish I could have met him.

They are good reading though I’ve found Ruark’s slightly more compelling, and Capstick, whether myth or reality, whether four martini’s-deep or not, more compelling yet. Perhaps it says more for my talent for recognizing good writing.

I doubt EH would have gotten the renown he did if he hadn’t also cut a then fashionable, wide swath in the French cafes, driving an ambulance during WWI, and gotten caught up in the Spanish Civil War and be able to translate those colorful experiences to the page. Not to mention Cuba, his deep sea fishing, and associating with the Hollywood elites.

Ruark and particularly PC had a much narrower focus. In the end, they all seemed to have their demons, particularly EH, who seemed to filled his life in dissipations of one sort of another.

Green Hills of Africa is about Hemingway, not safari hunting. His racist outlook takes a lot away from the story, for me.
That said, I have enjoyed my copy many times, mostly because I identify with the kudu as holy grail.

Racist? GMAFB..

Love Ruarks writing. Capstick is the only person I ever wrote a fan letter to. Can't find much better for pure entertainment value. They all had their way with words.

I agree. I enjoyed The Green Hills, but Horn of the Hunter draws me back again and again. The best safari book I've found so far.

Hemingway had a way to create pictures with words that for me is unmatched by any other writer I have read. Not sure if I would have been able to tolerate him personally but who knows? He died a long time ago. Judging historical figures that lived in the past by modern standards is not a productive use of time for me. I'll leave that to CNN commentators. I love the Green Hills of Africa for what it is--warts and all.

Tanganyika just sounds so much more exotic than does Tanzania; I hear Tanganyika and I see what Africa must be like even though I've never been. They should have stuck with that name.

Of EH I'm really only a fan of the Nick Adams stories. Perhaps it's the connection "that could be me".

On Africa I enjoy Ruark more but perhaps that's just because my Grandfather gave me an Outdoor life book club copy of "Use enough gun" when I was pretty young and it biased me against the EH I had to read in school. If you're interested in Ruark at a more personal level I highly recommend Ruark as I knew him . If you're like me at the end you'll both admire him and his life and detest him for throwing it away by drinking himself to death. What a waste.

I like "The Green Hills of Africa" more than "A Farewell to Arms", but less than "The Sun Also Rises". Never much cared for any of Hemingway's other novels. Many of his short stories are good, though.

One of my favorites.

Ruark is the standard by which I measure, Capstick is very entertaining. I mostly read EW because it seemed that I was supposed to do so.

I like Ruark too, John.

The title quote to Something of Value is very relevant today. Reputed to be an African proverb.

If a man does away with his traditional way of living and throws away his good customs, he had better first make certain that he has something of value to replace them.

Paul

Read it a bunch of times; one of the classics for sure.

Green Hills is a great book, but one of my favorite parts is actually Appendix I written by Pauline. She chronicles the kills as well as the food and drink. What is interesting is the amount of animals they actually missed or wounded. Hate to say it but there was some sloppy shooting going on. Nevertheless, great book. But if you haven't read the appendices, give them a look.

Jorge, you're not the lone dissenter, and I echo hatari's view of enjoying the character of Hemingway over his writing.

I've found that if a truck breaks down on the way to the hunting grounds, EH would spend 4 chapters describing the hardship, while to Ruark it would be a sidenote. Hemingway uses the situation to define the man, but Ruark uses the man to define the situation.

Perhaps we should discuss outdoor writers that didn’t win the Nobel Prize for literature.

I have read many from this lot. Some a chapter, some a book or two. The one I return to year after year is Corbett, and The Temple Tiger is in my backpack as I type.

Excellent post, sir.

Yes, I also like Corbett. Anderson is another "Corbett-like" author that wrote about India.

Great read.. Just found a book on his years in Wyoming writing , hunting and fly fishing...

Corbett's writing (which I enjoy) is almost comical in the sense that he's so dismissive of what would seem to be a major occurrence.

"So anyway, I killed that guy, and then finished the channel to our new harbor. But back to that Gemsbok...."

Classic British penchant for understatement... Love it

[

Sacrilege





No question that "The Sun Also Rises" is his best work. It made me travel to Pamplona to run with the bulls, and heavily drink at the festival.




Or some very heavy drinking around the campfire the night before.

No doubt..

I like your post!

As far as tough as nails and completely fearless Jim Corbett was a man's man, he thought nothing, of taking off and walking a hundred miles to sit in the rain all night long with no light no food , poor clothing and worse water , waiting for an all but silent, man eating cat, to stalk his hide !

And with no more todo than finishing the back nine, he would walk back home again !

Lol I appreciate this discussion, having just started reading Green Hills a short while ago. I'm only about 20% in but feel myself losing interest due to the long discussions about broken down trucks, why there are no longer any good American writers, but also due to the strange dialog that is sometimes hard to follow. I can't help but feel most of the writing is both pedantic and inconsequential.

I'm not as patient with books as I used to be and am trying to be disciplined enough to finish it but now feel tempted to seek out some Ruark, as I was mostly interested in the actual hunting theme.

I re-read Roark's works every year. One and done with Green Hills.

Just being helpful for those interested - the title of that book is Ruark Remembered - By The Man Who Knew Him Best by Alan Richie, who was Ruark's personal secretary.

Another great book about Ruark is A View From A Tall Hill by Terry Wieland.

These are both excellent, excellent books and anyone interested in Ruark should definitely acquire them.

Corbett definitely had a way of understating situations that would make mere mortals collapse. Many times in disbelief I've had to re-read the passage just to make sure he said what he said. Absolutely fearless guy.

Surprised J.A. Hunter hasn't been mentioned. Less fiction, but I really enjoyed reading history from his perspective and those he interviewed.

They got that name because they merged Tanganyika with Zanzibar. Dumb idea because the ethnic races in the two countries were different. The first thing that happened is that the Negroes murdered all the Arabs in Zanzibar.

Just the sort of thing that Ruark tried to warn the world about when he spoke out about the dangers of rapid decolonization.

I too have started The green hills..... a couple of times, I am guessing I will never finish it. How ever, "For whom the bell tolls" is in a different class altogether, as I have read it several times and enjoy each time.

I

I always recommend "The Sun Also Rises” to family members who think and tell me I drink too much. And validate my comment that I am a rank amateur at the sport.

Tho I have cut back considerably in my consumption. Very much so.

Thanks for the explanation. "They" have caused a lot of problems around the world with arbitrary national boundaries.



That quote certainly is apropos to today's culture. Trump should have used it in his speech last night (I'm assuming he didn't, I didn't watch). How ironic that it originated in Africa.

Thanks. I had a copy and read it and passed to a friend and never got it back. Now looking at the prices I'm not likely to buy it again. I'll look for the Wieland book but the prices on amazon are insane so it will be a search. May have to just be on the iPad but that's not near as satisfying.

Corbett must not have had a nervous system. To stand out there next to a tethered goat or striking a stump with an axe to duplicate the natives work, in failing light, in thick jungle growth, to draw in an animal that covers the last twenty yards in under two seconds — I remember a case of the quivers just reading it..and remembering it again.

Borrow/Read my copy at Birdfest!

Interesting side note: When my wife and I lived in Wyoming a couple of decades ago, we had some new friends over and were showing them our house. She was an American of English descent and her husband was a first generation immigrant from India (a physician, as I recall). He was somewhat reserved but pleasant until he walked into my office and saw a Jim Corbett book (I have forgotten which) on my desk. His demeanor immediately changed. He broke into a huge grin and asked excitedly, "You know of Jim Corbett?!". "Yes, what a life, huh?", I replied. He was effusive in his praise, "Oh he was a great, great man!". He went on at length about all of the good that Corbett had done for his native land and people. Talk about an ice breaker! I was, in his eyes, a good friend because I appreciated Jim Corbett.

RS

Had trouble quoting and editing. Anyway, when he was sitting in a blind waiting for a Kudu (I believe) he was nursing a drink. Also, there were several lunches where the partook in "beverages" and certainly in the evenings after the day of hunting. No doubt the reason for some of the sloppy shooting.....but it was a different time.

I think Hemingway was probably the best short story writer ever. "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber" is an excellent example. I have read most of his novels but actually don't care for them that much.

I am surprised the old joke hasn't come up yet-

When asked why the chicken crossed the road, Ernest Hemingway replied "to die, alone, in the rain".

Perhaps The Old Man And The Sea. It reads like a short story. Every time I finish it I sit shaking my head, stunned that a person could do that with words on paper.

Disclaimer -- I also love Ruark.

Regarding Corbett -- Does anyone remember his passage in Maneaters of Kumaon (of maybe it was The Temple Tiger) where he explained how he used wind direction to predict from where an attack would come, and thus stalked 'safely' through dense forest in the proximity of man-eaters? Corbett knew that tigers believed humans could scent like deer, thus would always plan a stalk from downwind, and behind. If anyone ever proved his beliefs with action, he did. I usually overnight alone in the bed of my 2000 Tacoma, and reading his work by flashlight is just a wonderful way to end a hunting day. That his books can be had for a couple dollars on Alibris is another of the stunning blessings of the modern world.

As you would all know, he often spoke of cocktails throughout his writings. In "The Greenhills of Africa" he drank daily including while he was sitting in a blind hunting. But one of my favorite books is "To Have and Have Another; A Hemingway Cocktail Companion" by Philip Green. This is a 360 page book where the author delves into different cocktails that were highlighted throughout the chapters of Hemingway's classics. He includes the recipes so you can taste them when reading the particular book or chapter they are referenced in. It's a wonderful book (I have no dog in this hunt) and full of pictures of Hemingway as well. One of my favorite pics is one where Ernest is sitting at a table in Pamplona in 1926. He is seated with his then wife, Hadley, and also at the table is Pauline Pfeiffer, with whom he was having an affair - and who eventually accompanied him in Africa.

I’m gonna look for that one.

Thanks.

Fun discussion! I've read all the books here, like them all for different reasons.

What about The Snows of Kilimanjaro and other short stories?

Also a fun read.

Oh, for those of you who like Corbett, the fiction book John McNab, by John Buchan, is pretty good fun. If it doesn't make you want to go stalk red deer in Scotland (which I have now been lucky enough to do many many times), nothing will!

Thanks for that tip - I'd not seen it and it may have something in it to keep Hatari from tempting us with another pitcher of French 75 cocktails next time we're together. The 20 gauge was a bit too much the next day.

A very good book and very interesting to read. Have read it about 7 times in 5 years, call me crazy if you like.

This is extremely hard to watch. And very, very sad. But for those who haven’t seen it, I will still post it.

Ten seconds of that was too much.

RS

😞

I agree,

IMHO Pauline's writing adds a huge amount to the book, and yes their was some sloppy shooting going on.

That is rough to watch

Have you read Theodore Roosevelt's AFRICAN GAME TRAILS?

A friend of mine once called it, "Bully, bully! Let;s go wounding!"

Damn, but they went down smooth and easy🍸🍸🍸

Probably accurate. TR’s poor eyesight and lack of modern optics along with the volume of game on his list for the museum all contributed to some list game.

TR’s Edwardian style of writing made AGT slow sledding for me.

Yeah, T.R. had bad eyesight, but it wasn't unusual for other hunters of the era to attempt shots they "estimated" at 500 or more yards with iron sights. Another example is ALASKAN-YUKON WON AND LOST by G.O. Young. Another example would be StewArt Edward White, at the time acclaimed as a great shot He added up the numbers from his first safari in his book on his first safari, and the hits, misses and woundings would not be considered acceptable by most 21st-century hunters.

John,
African Game Trails — 3 months, and I don’t remember how many bearers, skinners, and trackers, plus supplies — $80,000 at the time.

You might be able to drop that on a ten or fourteen day, top rate lion or bull elephant hunt today.

Hatari, I agree. Reading it was a little like attempting a destination in timely fashion while wading through waist-deep water.

Yes I really enjoyed African Game Trails but is was a read best done in small pieces for me.

PPosey,

Yeah it's long--but so was the safari.

One interesting side-note is that T.R. probably made more money in his lifetime from writing books and articles than any other single source.

After reading this thread, I got out my old book. Previously I had stopped reading it due to a the diversions from hunting. This time I will finish.

It's interesting how common rhinos were. Now they're mostly extinct.

Also, my paperback copy does not have the appendix with shot results.

[/quote]


Kaywood, I have never heard EH speak before. He has the cadence of a heavily medicated man, or was this normal for him? Seemed to have a lack of focus or interrupted thoughts. I know he was clinically depressed before his suicide. Is this not too far from that event?

He mentioned recovering from his air crashes at the beginning of the video. He had two successive plane crashes in Africa, which I believe hurt him badly. A guess, but maybe he was still on medications to treat the injuries when the video was filmed?. Also, in later years, I've read heavy use of electroshock therapy made it difficult for him to write. Those around him thought he was delusional for believing that he was under FBI surveillance for his communist activities. After his death, he was proven correct about the FBI surveillance.

Just finished the book. The sable hunting at the end is the best part.

The more I've read it, the sable/kudu hunt at the end stands as among the best big game stories ever.

But Hemingway was 34 when he went on that safari. He beat/worked himself to death in the next 27 years, due to being compulsively competitive (not just in writing but everything he did), and because he became an alcoholic, in the end drinking a bottle of wine at breakfast just to get himself going. But when he was on, he was great. When he wasn't....

Kaywood, I have never heard EH speak before. He has the cadence of a heavily medicated man, or was this normal for him? Seemed to have a lack of focus or interrupted thoughts. I know he was clinically depressed before his suicide. Is this not too far from that event?
[/quote]

I believe it was the brain trauma. I read thru all the comments on this video. Apparently one contributor who apparently was familiar with things stated there were prepared statements to the questions posted on boards behind interviewer, and on the floor/table, for him to read from. Like modern day teleprompter.

Also his use of “period" and such at end of sentences was another sign. This was also explained as he was afraid of the media chainging his comments. I personally think that an excuse. As many of us are aware, brain trauma can be hell.

I believe it was the brain trauma. I read thru all the comments on this video. Apparently one contributor who apparently was familiar with things stated there were prepared statements to the questions posted on boards behind interviewer, and on the floor/table, for him to read from. Like modern day teleprompter.

Also his use of “period" and such at end of sentences was another sign. This was also explained as he was afraid of the media chainging his comments. I personally think that an excuse. As many of us are aware, brain trauma can be hell. [/quote]

I don’t think this video is what people are making it out to be. I’ve seen this video many, many times over the years. Hemingway hated talking about his life and work, and made it a point of not doing it. To one lady he said it made him physically ill. When it became unavoidable he made it obvious by going by a script (that was probably agreed on by the network), and by stating the punctuation was signaling the utter BS And proscriptive nature of it all. The one moment when the reporter gets flustered, Hemingway, under his breath, encourages the guy to keep going, probably because he knew it was almost over. Both the reporter and Hemingway knew this was an interview Hem did not want to do, and they Just bashed through it.

Hemingway did have a halting way of speaking. This interview is just after the Nobel prize, so 1954. He didn’t die until 1961.


Listen to his Nobel speech and you’ll hear what he normally sounded like.

Terry has (or is shortly) releasing a second printing of his ruark book and it should be easier to get a hold of.


I’ve spent 60-80 hours reading Ruarks personal papers. It’s good stuff.

Be careful what you write as you can perpetuate myths. Rhino are not nearly extinct, only selected species. The White Rhino have well over 15,000 population and is listed as "near threatened".

Not nearly extinct.

Thanks for the tip! It looks like at least a paperback is publishing next month. Paperback view from a tall hill

Well, I don't want to argue semantics but just try to find a free-range rhino hunt, black or white.

I don't think there's any place you can hunt black rhinos or northern whites. There are some southern whites on game farms in RSA but they are gone from the Zambezi valley where they used to roam free.

There used to be a deal where you could dart a rhino (a vet came along on the hunt), take a cast of the horn, and release it. But I think they stopped that.


For all practical purposes rhino hunting is dead. Unfortunately elephant and lion hunting soon will be.

Indeed, but I didn't say anything about hunting them, just that "rhino" are not nearly extinct. Many sub species are endangered of course, but we need to be precise. There are a lot of white rhino about and we need to do everything we can to protect and encourage their ongoing survival.

We just need to be very careful about how we use language. People who are imprecise in their use of language will say absurd things like the African Elephant is an endangered species. That is a flat out lie when propagated by the animal rights industry, and just ignorant when said by the average uninformed person who believes the lie.

I've read it and my take aways were just how bad of a hunter and how poor of a marksman. He writes well and it was a interesting read but no wonder he drove an ambulance instead of being active infantry.

Read the thread
Ordered he book
Read it.
Enjoyed it. He had issues

I don’t think this video is what people are making it out to be. I’ve seen this video many, many times over the years. Hemingway hated talking about his life and work, and made it a point of not doing it. To one lady he said it made him physically ill. When it became unavoidable he made it obvious by going by a script (that was probably agreed on by the network), and by stating the punctuation was signaling the utter BS And proscriptive nature of it all. The one moment when the reporter gets flustered, Hemingway, under his breath, encourages the guy to keep going, probably because he knew it was almost over. Both the reporter and Hemingway knew this was an interview Hem did not want to do, and they Just bashed through it.

Hemingway did have a halting way of speaking. This interview is just after the Nobel prize, so 1954. He didn’t die until 1961.


Listen to his Nobel speech and you’ll hear what he normally sounded like.


[/quote]

That sure may be the case, baxterb. All I had to go on was living with someone with brain trauma. But no two cases are alike. Thanks!

The Nobel acceptance speech: Hemingway's Nobel speech

This.

I have a first addition, I've read it, I wasn't overly impressed with the man. His writing is very good but I found him to be an ass.

It’s on the shelf but haven’t read it yet. I know I’ll just want to go hunt Africa once I do read it

It’s a cool book, I’m a big fan of the Green Issac and the Death in the Gulfstream. Two summer staples for me

"The Snows of Kilimanjaro," which I read as a kid, led me to the summit last July to celebrate my 1-year retirement from the Air Force.

I don't read Hemmingway's books to glean his personality or better or worse traits. I read them because they are well written.

A well written story is a joy.

Excellent point! It could be applied to movies and music as well.

I've just begun reading For Whom The Bell Tolls about EH's time in Spain. Fascinating.

One of the greats in my opinion