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Originally Posted by Paul39
Rifle scopes have become like electronics, predictable obsolescence, shifting brand ownership, with essentially meaningless "lifetime warranties". A buyer needs to consider all of this in making a purchase decision.'

At what price point do you consider a throw away product acceptable? It's like the discussion of Harbor Freight tools. How much do you have to pay for predictable quality and enduring customer support, and even then how far can you count on it? Who ever thought that the original Redfield and Weaver would ever go away? What about Marlin and Winchester?

It seems like other industries have adopted the model of the computer world, "We don't support that any more".

Paul


Agreed.

And I wonder how a 99 dollar scope today compares to Dads 1965 weaver K-4, which was state of the art at one time.

I expect todays cheapy is a lot better, esp for set and forget aiming.


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Originally Posted by Sycamore

And I wonder how a 99 dollar scope today compares to Dads 1965 weaver K-4, which was state of the art at one time.

I expect todays cheapy is a lot better, esp for set and forget aiming.

Optically better, probably much better. We have become spoiled by better and cheaper glass. Mechanics is a whole other story, but probably better today. Set and forget used to be the norm, but dial twirling is more prevalent than it used to be. Historically, bench rest and silhouette led the way in awareness of the need for improved mechanical reliability.

Weaver never was known for great glass, but was always solid and reliable. Weaver Micro-Trac was a game changer too.

I suspect there is a much greater range in price and quality, and choice, today than there was in the past.

Paul


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Originally Posted by gunzo
My understanding about Nikon was they want to distance themselves from filthy gun owners.

Weaver, OTOH, was discontinued by the owners that owned both them & Bushnell, to put all efforts &/or sales in Bushnell.


Good gosh, like talkin to my wife. Read this post.

If I'm wrong, flame the hell outta me. Otherwise, read the post. Half drunk here, but still think I comprehend, do I ?????

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This ^^ isn't necessary here, sorry. If I have to be obnoxious I'll try to save it for the hunters campfire.

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It's not distancing from gun owners, if there's money there they will chase it. As mentioned previously, hunting optics aren't their bread and butter and the margins weren't worth it to them, and this is coming from a former Nikon NA rep at 2020 Shot Show.

The money just wasn't there, and with their precipitous decline in the imaging market, specifically with their camera line, they started a 2Q restructuring in 2019 and that left rifle scopes out in the cold. They have been hemorrhaging for a while now and some of their lines had to go. Their identity is in the camera business, not sport optics.

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If this^^ is true, not doubting you, but the info, it's a breath of fresh air for possibly a legit reason. "If" their marketing reps are being sincere then they have to do what they have to do, & that's totally understandable.

Sometimes, it isn't really all about "us" is it?

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I got a nikon monarch 5 on sale for $330, but it was not good enough to put on a rifle.

Back in 1990 I was using $20 used Weaver el paso 4X scopes..... I could not understand how anyone paid more than that for a scope.


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Originally Posted by Huntz
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by JGRaider
I guess I don't understand the appeal of buying an optic from a company that is exiting the business. I wouldn't touch a Nikon scope with a 10 ft pole. Their customer service was already clueless enough without them trying to figure out how to warranty and service products they no longer have.


Nikon management is anti gun , why bother doing business with them?

What is your source?

I could easily be wrong but think I remember Doug saying Nikon overall is anti-gun and any retail store that carried their cameras couldn’t carry their scopes. Please accept my apology in advance Doug if it was not you.


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[/quote]
I could easily be wrong but think I remember Doug saying Nikon overall is anti-gun and any retail store that carried their cameras couldn’t carry their scopes. Please accept my apology in advance Doug if it was not you.[/quote]

That is correct. As a Nikon photo dealer we were not permitted to offer Nikon riflescopes as Nikon Photo Japan did not support "blood sport" and their policy restricted photo dealers from offering their riflescopes


Doug @ Camera Land

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516-217-1000

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Now I feel better about drawing blood with their product. When I do, I'll send them pics and thank them for making it possible.

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Originally Posted by gr8fuldoug


I could easily be wrong but think I remember Doug saying Nikon overall is anti-gun and any retail store that carried their cameras couldn’t carry their scopes. Please accept my apology in advance Doug if it was not you.[/quote]

That is correct. As a Nikon photo dealer we were not permitted to offer Nikon riflescopes as Nikon Photo Japan did not support "blood sport" and their policy restricted photo dealers from offering their riflescopes
[/quote]

It's too bad. Great movie. My favorite of Van Damme's. Maybe the Japanese are just hating on Bolo Yeung because he is Chinese.

In all seriousness, most shooters are not hunters, and getting meat, by far what most hunters do, is about as "blood sport" as fishing is. People are weird.


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Originally Posted by cdb
Originally Posted by Huntz
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by JGRaider
I guess I don't understand the appeal of buying an optic from a company that is exiting the business. I wouldn't touch a Nikon scope with a 10 ft pole. Their customer service was already clueless enough without them trying to figure out how to warranty and service products they no longer have.


Nikon management is anti gun , why bother doing business with them?

What is your source?

I could easily be wrong but think I remember Doug saying Nikon overall is anti-gun and any retail store that carried their cameras couldn’t carry their scopes. Please accept my apology in advance Doug if it was not you.


Thanks for posting that. Nikon is anti-gun and they bend over for any anti hunters and do not support shooting sports where they make their money. There is not much of a hunting culture in Japan.

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That doesn't make much sense. BH Photovideo sells a whole lot of Nikon equipment and they used to sell their riflescopes until Nikon stepped out of the riflescope environment. Adorama is another huge site that does the same and now, they only sell one refurbished scope.

The Nikonsportsoptics.com site still lists all manners of Nikon riflescopes. That's their own website.

In it, it says:
Riflescopes
Bright. Clear. Precise. Rugged. These are just a few of the attributes knowledgeable hunters commonly use to describe Nikon riflescopes. Nikon is determined to bring hunters, shooters and sportsmen a wide selection of the best hunting optics money can buy- while at the same time pushing the envelope to create revolutionary capabilities for the serious hunter.

Their website still does not mention they are out of the riflescope business. They used to have a huge booth at SHOT show. I visited it last year, it was not there in 2020.

Nikon does a hell of a lot more than just cameras and sports optics.

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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Thanks for posting that. Nikon is anti-gun and they bend over for any anti hunters and do not support shooting sports where they make their money. There is not much of a hunting culture in Japan.


There may not be much hunting "culture" in Japan, but their culture sure enjoys unique cuisine. I started hunting in early 90's and one of my colleagues was japanese. When I told him where I was heading for weekend, he quickly perked up "You going hunting? For deer? Male deer? If you get male deer, can you bring back deer pee pee for me?" I thought Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Turns out apparently the male deer sexual organ (like many other odd wildlife items) was considered an aphrodisiac. He was not interested in the rocky mountain oysters, just the deer pee pee.

So, while it maybe not much of a hunting culture, they do appreciate the fruits of the harvest from hunting.

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I sold firearms and optics part-time from 2014-2016. Since I’m into optics it evolved that at our store I dealt with our optics suppliers when the need arose. I never had any contact with some of our suppliers but did have dealings with Leupold, Vortex, Burris, Bushnell and Nikon.

Leupold was fantastic, I could call corporate or our local rep and they would send anything I asked for-screws, turret caps, shims, etc. Any tool Leupold sold they would send too. Even though I don’t care much for their scopes Vortex was fantastic too, they went above and beyond. Burris was excellent and Bushnell wasn’t bad at all. Nikon? If I talked to anyone at corporate the attitude was they were doing me a favor by even deigning to speak with me. I only met the local rep once and he was a jerk. The sample is small but Nikon left a bad taste in my mouth.

Addendum: Forgot to mention Meopta, they were awesome too.

Last edited by cdb; 08/19/20.

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Nikon is without a doubt anti hunting. I saw this first hand at a Nikon Spot On Shoot. One of the reps had a trailer with Nikon on the side as well as deer. They were asked to move it so the Japanese Employee from Nikon wouldn't see it. Years back they stayed away from Tactical scopes for the same reason.


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Originally Posted by gunzo
My understanding about Nikon was they want to distance themselves from filthy gun owners.

Weaver, OTOH, was discontinued by the owners that owned both them & Bushnell, to put all efforts &/or sales in Bushnell.

More to it than that. They discontinued their Nexiv measurement systems about the same time.


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Originally Posted by Paul39
Rifle scopes have become like electronics, predictable obsolescence, shifting brand ownership, with essentially meaningless "lifetime warranties". A buyer needs to consider all of this in making a purchase decision.'

At what price point do you consider a throw away product acceptable? It's like the discussion of Harbor Freight tools. How much do you have to pay for predictable quality and enduring customer support, and even then how far can you count on it? Who ever thought that the original Redfield and Weaver would ever go away? What about Marlin and Winchester?

It seems like other industries have adopted the model of the computer world, "We don't support that any more".

Paul


^ ^ ^ ^

This is just the way it is in the 21st century.
You get the upper management slots full
of the business types that don't really know
their products or customer base, but they're
the life and death decision makers for the company.
If the scope company goes tits up and the
employees go to the curb, oh well.
They'll be in an upper management slot at a
pizza chain in a few months

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"Blood sports". Like killing giant Tuna to stuff their Japanese bellies. For letting of an animals blood, result is the same. I suppose they think it more "Honorable" to let the fish die from suffocation than give a deer a quick death by bullet. RJ

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I have three X1000 6-24x X 50mm MOA scopes with illuminated reticle, love them. I had bought the first before they announced, the other two afterwards. All from Cabelas. Can't find a scope this good for this price range, quality piece. I'd but a 4th one and set it on the shelf if I could find one, but have not been able to locate one, just the MRAD which I don't want. Nikon will still support warranty and service, just getting out of market as I understand it, investment vs return.

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