Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 358 Win Pre-64 Fwt

Thanks for the heads up, Ed.

DF

I have just finished reading all 13 pages of this thread. I really enjoyed all the information. It has inspired me to build my own .358. !!

Kinda contagious.

It’s a very interesting round.

DF

I need to get a hold of JES and find out what the shortest barrel is that will still burn up all the powder. My Uncle has a 18.5" based on a Rem. 600. I have a couple of Ruger Hawkeye's but the barrel's are 16.5" Decisions, decisions...

Will be interetesting to hear what JES has to say about that. He may or may not have an opinion on ballistics and powder burn, confining his remarks to what he actually does. But, will wait to hear.

I like my 22" Fwt. But with the ,358 Win, I'd think a shorter barrel would work, wouldn't have the blast of a short barreled .300 Mag or equivalent.

I think you'll lose less velocity per inch of barrel chop than with a higher intensity round. The shortie will be louder, for sure. Now if you're gonna thread and use a suppressor....

I personally wouldn't build a 16 1/2" .358 Win, although some single shot pistols shooting rifle rounds have even shorter barrels.. I don't have one, don't want one.

My hearing is bad enough already....

YMMV

DF

Got the Sako put back together and ran a few rounds down the barrel. Spec's on the rifle: Westernfield / Sako L57, Rebored from .243 to .358 win. Barrel shortened by Jess to 20". 1:12 twist, 3 Grove. Weighs 7lbs 9oz with the Redfield 3x9.

I didn't have a lot of time today, so I put together some quick loads with some 150 gr Remington SPCL (I have a bunch of these) and H4895. One reduced load and one standard.

Reduced load : 150gr Rem SPCL, 38.4g H4895, Winchester Brass, WLRP, OAL 2.62, 5 shot Average 1630 fps
Standard load: 150gr Rem SPCL, 46.7g H4895, Winchester Brass, WLRP, OAL 2.62, 5 shot Average 2309 fps

I was only shooting at 50 yds as I was just looking to get the scope squared away and few rounds down the tube.

The reduced load shot just under an inch at 50 yds, Fired cases were smoky all the way back to the rim. Very light recoil, but really just a plinking load, minute of Armadillo.

Standard load was promising. Not a max load but fast enough and after making some adjustments to zero the scope, the last 3 shots at 50 were almost touching.

I have about 75 200gr Winchester silvetips on hand that I plan to use for a deer hunting load.

The only barrel prep I did was pull a bore snake through before I started. Did not clean between shots.

Now, that's nice, about perfect.

You gonna like that one.

I've found that the JES rebores do foul. I cleaned mine very well then did the Dyna Bore Coat treatment. The more I shoot and clean it, the less it fouls. And I'm using a Hawkeye borescope.

They're not gonna group like a new Shilen, but do pretty well. I'm pleased with how well mine shoots.

DF

I like that rifle and I'm thinking maybe I should have made my M70 a 20 inch instead of 22" but, that's always possible.

20" looks good on that one.

I didn't want to alter the look of my Pre-64 Fwt, so left it at the original 22".

DF

Here's a link to more .358 Win info, this time on the 200 FTX, referred to here.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ith-200-grain-ftx-not-again#Post15550547

DF

Dirtfarmer- Regarding the 180 Barnes TTSX & Ramshot powders, FYI, I've used TAC & X-terminator. Using WW brass [in a 22" Hawkeye], which hold about 52.5 gr. to the base of the neck [which will be more than filled with the 180 TTSX bullet shank]. With TAC, I got up to 55 gr, very heavily compressed [well over 100+%], 2809 fps average, ES of 56fps, no pressure signs at all. COAL 2.705"; .050" off the lands. I thought a faster powder was called for and tried X-terminator, started at 48gr [2616fps], up to 52.5gr [2715fps]. No high pressure signs, rounded primer corner. I still need to try somewhat more compressed X-terminator loads but haven't yet. X-terminator was supposed to have great promise per Charlie Sisk & the Ramshot folks I read somewhere. I doubt it will reach the TAC velocity [yes, I appear to be trying to reach 35 Whelen velocities or about 95% thereof]. I've also tried the Speer 180gr flat point w/ H4198, starting load of 38gr in a Ruger American, 20" barrel, getting mid 2250s to 2311fps, big spread though. Thought this might help your research. -Mark

Thanks, Mark.

Today I shot 150 and 160 CEB Raptors out of the JES .358. They shot OK, but due to their light weight were 10-12" from the original POI. You'd have to resight just for those or have a different dedicated scope to swap out. I also shot Hammer 178 and 203's. I'm impressed with the 178 Hammer. It's accurate with faster powders and isn't way off the target, although a few inches high.

I'm going to order a box of 178 Hammer bullets to try on WT's. The gun shoots the 200 NAB's pretty well. It's about an inch and half gun, does shoot some sub inch groups, mainly with the 175 FTX which isn't widely available, not a catalog item, just something I got from Midway with one of their blue box/black box specials. Those bullets will shoot 3/4" but are worthless on WT's at 358 Win speeds. Even the 200 FTX is reportedly too expansive at 2,500 fps or so, do OK at 35 Rem speeds of around 2,200 fps. I know some push their 35's faster...

180 TTSX shoots pretty well, but the 178 Hammer is more accurate in my gun. The 203 Hammer was pretty good, the 178 shooting better. I'm using RL-7 (wish I could find more), H-4198, Benchmark and LT-32. No data on the latter, but I extrapolated a bit, got a starting load, haven't pushed it. I have X-Terminator on the way and think it may be pretty good. I haven't gotten real good groups with TAC.

I read that Vv n-133 has a smooth pressure curve and it does seem to shoot pretty well. I'll try more of it.

I dropped by Cabelas in Gonzales on the way down to Metairie for Christmas. I got their last bottle of H-4198, last two of H-4895 and a bottle of Benchmark. I left them one of those. As I expected, they didn't have much on the shelf and no primers. Their usual fairly large powder shelves were now down to a 4' set of shelves with very little merchandise.

I ordered a big jug of Big Game, 3 cans of X-Terminator from Midsouth.. Ya just gotta grab what you can when you can. Powder Valley had some X-Terminator but I think it's gone.

DF

BG and X-Terminator powder arrived.

I found some RL-7 at a general farm type store in MO. Go figure.

https://www.mkaysupply.com/

Least likely powder source, probably why it wasn't sold out. The usual big suppliers, PV, Midway, etc. slim pickin's...

DF

With my new RL-7 find, I'm gonna load Hammer 178's over RL-7 for WT's. They shoot around an inch and reportedly are good deer bullets. This .358 Win likes them, WT's probably not so much....

DF

Back in the 80's, I was looney about single shot pistols. I had several Competitor rotary breech single shot pistols, To examine one, you would think that Blaser did the machining of the parts on these guns. The 12", 14" or 16" barrels could be swapped out in about 10 minutes and they were extremely accurate. The list of offered chamberings was as long as your arm. I had one with a 16" factory chambered for 358 Winchester. Of the bench, It would easily shoot MOA and I could shoot 3 shots into 1.5" to 2" @100 yards in the semi Creedmoor position, thanks to my years for IHMSA shooting. Yes, a bit of muzzle blast. RJ

Bet that thing was a hoot to shoot...

DF

BTW, the more I shoot this JES .358 Win, the slicker it gets, easier to clean and groups seem to be shrinking. Part of the group thing could be me finding the loads that shoot best. Anyway, after a number of rounds, barrel pretty hot, a soaking or two with Patch Out and it's clean, like Hawkeye clean...

The chatter marks from the rifling machine, the inclusions, voids, etc that I see with the Hawkeye, don't seem to affect accuracy that much. It's an inch and a half gun, becoming a near MOA shooter with the right loads. Without going with a custom barrel, etc. I think that's pretty good for a relatively light medium bore hunting rifle, a re-bore at that.

The 178 Hammer over RL-7 may be a winner. Unlike the 150 and 160 CEB Raptors, the POI isn't that far away. Those shoot 8-10" high. They group pretty good, but sighted for them the gun would be way off for everything else. Whereas the 178 Hammers are not that far off, maybe a couple inches.

358 bullets that light (150 and 160) probably have low B.C.'s, not that big a deal with a .358 Win, but still something to think about. I may sight in another scope just for them, but not now.

For some reason, this gun likes faster powders, lighter bullets, even though it's a 12 twist. Go figure.

DF

Not sure if I'd already posted these here, know I posted them somewhere. Here are the 150 and 160 CEB Raptors. They look like they were turned on the same machine, just different materials, brass vs. copper, different weights based on density of the materials.

The other two are 203 and 178 Hammers. Note their scalloped rings for which, reportedly, they have a patent. Good gas seal, less bore resistance, higher velocities, all with good accuracy. Some posters have said the Hammer bullet plows straighter than the CEB's with less diversion. I don't know, just repeating what I've read. I think they both have good terminal performance. iPhone photos not the best, but give an idea.

CEB's have a ring to seal the bore, located forward of the lower rings. That ring doesn't need to be seated into the case neck, needs to be left out and not distorted.

All are machine turned, very accurate and expensive.

OK, I see the link I posted above has these photos and descriptions. I knew I had posted them somewhere, couldn't find them here. Senior moment, no doubt...

DF

I like those Hammers myself. Very good mono bullet for the money and usually accurate with very little fuss.