Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns .38 shotshell patterning

Been enjoying a new2me Smith Model 60-4 .38 Special and went out this morning to try some CCI shotshells. The box says they carry 135 pellets but I didn't count each one so will take their word for it.

The patterning targets were set to emulate a viper's head, basically triangular shaped 1 1/2" base x 1 1/4" height. I know you'd normally see a snake head at something of an angle or looking right at you but needed some standard so used a profile. I was going to draw a snake body under the head but that quickly took on a phallic appearance. Shooting at that would be way too Freudian so that idea was abandoned.

Patterns were shot at 5, 8 and 10 feet, those distances set up carefully with a tape measure. Rounds were fired single action, aiming point was the center of the triangle. After firing one round at each distance I brought the target holder back to 5' and fired two shells.

Some take-aways. All patterns remained circular and had a regular dispersion out to 10 feet, no "doughnut hole" appeared where the rifling spun the shot outwards. Patterns were centered slightly below point of aim but with 20/20 hindsight that makes sense since the revolver is sighted in for standard 158 grain bullets and these loads recoil less. They do recoil some, not a lot but I was a bit surprised at the first shot.

Are they effective? I'd say they definitely are but hits are kind of random. if you're going to shoot a snake you'll want to get as close as the snake will let you, and I'd take the stance of "keep boomin' 'til it ain't movin'". Two rounds didn't give twice the hits but did give more hits.

On the subject of shooting snakes in general, I'll leave that up to each of you. I'd just as soon live and let live but if I found a venomous snake around a house with kids and dogs it would be bang bang arrivederci to that snake. On the subject of using a snake load vs. just hitting them with a stick, again that would be reader's choice. This is a gun forum so here are the results for those who would use a firearm.


Now on to the pics.

5 feet. 5 hits in the head, pattern is circular with a 6" diameter.





8 feet. Only two hits in the head and one of those just grazed the nose. Pattern is 11" tall by 9 1/2" wide.





10 feet. 3 hits in the head, you can see that hits are really kind of a random chance thing. Pattern is over 11"+ tall by 12 1/2", several pellets went off the paper top and bottom. The target is 2" by 1 1/2" so this is a bigger snake and not something I'd want to approach closer than 10 feet.





Back to 5 feet, two shots. 7 hits in the head, pattern is 6 1/2" tall by 5 1/2" wide. The shot cup itself would add to the destruction, you can see a nice wadcutter style hole right in the neck and there are shards of blue plastic stuck around the paper.





Hero picture with the revolver and a shotshell.




Hope this helps and has been of some interest to y'all.

It is interesting, appreciate your work. I have done something similar in the past with both .38 and .22 LR shotshells. After shooting some patterns with these two handgun shotshells I quit relying on random pellets to maybe hit and incapacitate a nefarious serpant. A .22 hollowpoint is a reliable snake killer. As is a 148 gr. wadcutter .38 Special. I killed a 4' timber rattler about a week ago and had to make do with a 10mm 200gr. XTP hollowpoint. At 1250 fps it managed to do the job.

FWIW,

I shoot CCI shotshells out of my Charter Arms .22 Mag. revolver, and my patterns at 10 feet more closely resemble yours at 5 feet! It is now my summertime carry gun, with two snake loads and 4 hollowpoints.

I wonder how their #4 shot load performs? I see Browning is now making an interesting load as well.

Used my wifes Taurus 85 2" snubnose ( she thought it was more appropriate than my Glock 19) with the CCI .38 shot loads to kill a rattlesnake 15 feet from my back door last week. Very effective.

I may have to try the Browning.

Last box of CCI 38's were pure garbage!

I keep an airweight loaded with snake shot, and shot a big rat snake. That first shot unseated the capsules remaining in the cylinder, and effectively locked up the action so the gun could not function. I had to force the other capsules back into the case before I could even open the cylinder.

Tried one more shot, and had the same results.

I've used these shells since the 80's and never had that before.

Not buying them anymore.

Very effective. Have killed a few rattlesnakes with them and a 2.5" 66-1. Each needed only one shot. Graveyard dead.

Quite a long time ago there was an article in a gun mag that said use smalle shot and the don't hot rod the loads. I think it mentioned # 12 shot,but I wasn't about to buy a 25 # sack. I took some 12 gauge #9 apart and used that in a.357 case and Speer shot shell capsules . I think the load was Universal or W231.My data is out in the shop so I don't want to quote from memory. It was essentially a 38 sp load though.

I don't get any rattlers at my place, maybe a few garters and I hunt too high for snakes. I have never shot one.I have taken several blue grouse out past 10 feet for sure with my Ruger Security Six, 4 inch barrel though

Someone here (I think Rocky Raab) recommends running a bead of super glue around the mouth of the case to help hold them in place. It does seem to work.

Thanks, Jim, for the info and pictures. I have tried the same experiment a long time ago except used my Smith and Wesson Mdl. 15 4" .38 Spec., and my wife's S&W 36 HB 3" .38 Spec. CCI .38s. If I recall, the results were near the same. On another caliber, I made shotshells for my S&W 57 .41 Mag., 6" using 8.0 grains of Unique powder and filled to the top of the case with # 10 lead shot. Now those .41 shotshells were really good and consistent. Killed a large rattler at about four feet with that one down in the Owyhees. Made mush out of his head.

Also did the same for my Ruger Blackhawk N.M., .45 Colt 4 5/8" bbl., and they also worked well on another rattler. The #10 lead shot is my favorite to build my own shotshells.

L.W.

How long have you had that printer paper laying around? Nice work on the shot patterning.

I have killed two copperheads with 38 shot shells, the first one was so close the plastic cup penetrated his head, 3 feet?? the second 5 feet maybe, both dead. 2 inch airweight with clipdraw. never patterned it.

At about five feet away, three pellets from a .38 Special (CCI snake shot load) revolver landed in his head.

He was still writhing when this picture was taken, so I dragged him out to the grass and delivered a close up coup de grace shot (no image of that, but it turned his head to hamburger).

PS He was in my hen house.



Revolver:

I find the ones that I load myself with #9 shot are much better than the factory loads. Loaded on the mild side with 231.

Sometime around 1996 or 97 a Staples store had these on closeout, $5 for a case of 5000 sheets. I use these for load workup and general target shooting and use a Sharpie to draw whatever aiming point seems appropriate. The other side has alternating color bars 1/2" apart which helps when sighting in and such. Plus, if dot matrix printers every make a come back I'll be ready...

Well the shorter barrel in my Officers 1911 gives a nice pattern at ten feet. About fist sized. 45 acp

Gunsmith explained it as less time in the rifling. He’s good and I took his word.

Made up some .1 Magnum loads several years ago...gave them to a friend in Texas while I was visiting there this spring...

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Not a .38 but I've done considerable patterning with a .44 Spl Bulldog and .44 Russian...conclusion, counter intuitively, the shortest barrel produces the best patterns. ??? WTF? Hard to swallow, but true.
Best load, 3 gr of Bullseye, Red Dot, or Tite Group, Maybe Bullseye marginally the best, any hot primer, wax milk carton wad over powder wad, fill near top with #8 shot, place an over shot wad of milk carton or a pounded flat disc made from a soft lead fishing sinker (you can cut a dum-dum X in the sinker if you like), seal with a little Lee Liquid Alox and give it a pronounced roll crimp. Truly great useable patterns at 10 yards. On cardboard, the shot is very well distributed without the usual quail sized holes, penetration is more than adequate. Will stop a charging tender young grouse in it's tracks, for defense purposes.

My company still uses it. Let me know if you need some more.

"Usually" & from many test, the finer the shot the better for snakes, #12 preferred. Midway, some others have #12 in 10# bags, but that's still a lot & shipping's a hindrance. I bought a box of novelty shotgun shells in 10 shot, & cut up some of those.

I've killed a few prairie rattlers with #10 & 12. The 10 is good, but the 12 takes all the writhing out of them, just shuts them down completely, odd.