24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
AR barrel lengths in CQB. #15187130 09/01/20
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
G
gunzo Online Content OP
Campfire Guide
OP Online Content
Campfire Guide
G
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
Don't think I'm beating a dead horse yet...

Real world threats with a videoed outcome. Real time modern lessons.

If I've seen the vids correctly, the Kenosha Kid, KK, had his 16" barrel grabbed &/or pushed away at least twice.

Would an SBR or AR pistol been more effective, or while the KK was effective enough, would a shorter front end have helped ??

Just a conversation on the matter.

BP-B2

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187165 09/01/20
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,862
antelope_sniper Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,862
First, excluding a total societal collapse, I'd never take anything requiring a stamp any where near a potentially sporty event. To the greatest extent reasonably possible, I choose to avoid places that could become "interesting".

But if I expected conditions such as those and could choose an AR type friend to accompany me:

11.5" braced pistol.
Very bright light, probably 1000 lumens.
LPVO on top.
Offset Micro red dot.
Very good modern 2 point sling.

Ammo, probably coupled mags, one with 60gr NBT and the second with 64gr BSB.


Last edited by antelope_sniper; 09/01/20.

Nobody spends somebody else�s money as carefully as he spends his own.
The U.S Government has a unique capacity for getting things upside down.
Milton Friedman.

Go quiet or full tilt, just don't get caught in the middle of the stupids. DD
Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187205 09/01/20
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
G
gunzo Online Content OP
Campfire Guide
OP Online Content
Campfire Guide
G
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
Yeah, the SBR route throws a monkey wrench into the equation.

Your later criteria is very close to my criteria & I don't even know a couple of the acronyms.

Armchair quarterbacking is better than ignoring the happening IMO.

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187222 09/01/20
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,303
G
GreatWaputi Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
G
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,303
More effective? Two dead, one severely wounded, minimal amount of shots fired, no bystanders hit. Seems pretty damn effective to me.

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187244 09/01/20
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,159
MontanaMan Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,159
At the distance he was at to the attacker, I don't think 4-5" barrel difference would matter, so far as someone grabbing the barrel................but the shorter, lighter barrel would make the gun easier to move around, so it might help in that sense so as to move the barrel away easier/faster.

But not a night & day deal maker / deal breaker, IMO.

MM

IC-A

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187250 09/01/20
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,862
antelope_sniper Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24,862
Originally Posted by gunzo
Yeah, the SBR route throws a monkey wrench into the equation.

Your later criteria is very close to my criteria & I don't even know a couple of the acronyms.

Armchair quarterbacking is better than ignoring the happening IMO.


LPVO = Low Power Variable Optic.

NBT = Nosler Ballistic Tip

BSB = Nosler Bonded Solid Base.


Nobody spends somebody else�s money as carefully as he spends his own.
The U.S Government has a unique capacity for getting things upside down.
Milton Friedman.

Go quiet or full tilt, just don't get caught in the middle of the stupids. DD
Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187285 09/01/20
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
G
gunzo Online Content OP
Campfire Guide
OP Online Content
Campfire Guide
G
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
Pretty damn effective for sure, but WTF is wrong with the word "more". Duplicating might be OK I guess, but ain't bettering preferred.

Goddammit! does this have get controversial within 5 post? Isn't better like, better? Or something?

I vote for more better. grin

Last edited by gunzo; 09/01/20.
Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187320 09/01/20
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,303
G
GreatWaputi Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
G
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,303
I wish he'd a popped a couple more and center punched elbow boy, so there is that to improve on.

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187341 09/01/20
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,323
B
BamBam Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,323
My new Shorty to the stable is a Geissele Super duty, 11.5 inch pistol.Kahles 1x6 sitting in a Scalar works mount. Have a sure fire scout which is temporary. I only have a couple hundred rounds out of this set up but I did get it out to 600 yards hitting an 18 inch steel plate off of the bench With IMI M193 consecutively. It’s a dynamite set up, Very happy with it I would have no issues taking it out with The limited amount of time I have on it.

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: GreatWaputi] #15187394 09/01/20
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
G
gunzo Online Content OP
Campfire Guide
OP Online Content
Campfire Guide
G
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
Originally Posted by GreatWaputi
I wish he'd a popped a couple more and center punched elbow boy, so there is that to improve on.


Bingo! KK had a line on the tall guy that drip kicked him as well. Don't know if he shot, or if he did & the shot went wild. Weapon length not a big issue on that encounter, IMO.

KK did a good job, no doubt about it, but I feel, or my eyes & the vids tell me he was on the ragged edge of loosing his weapon or having it disabled just due to what was sticking out there for someone to grab.

I bought an AR pistol last fall more or less as a novelty, a fun gun. Now, after watching many vids several times over of that young man sitting on his ass and still saving his life, the novelty pistol I have seems to have a better purchase than I thought. Thinking it's more useful than I thought.

IC-B

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187696 09/01/20
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,505
T
TWR Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,505
Shorter? I've been thinking a bayonet added could be useful.

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187801 09/01/20
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,364
hookeye Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,364
I think KK let em get too close.

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15187911 09/02/20
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 177
S
Sam_H Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 177
Firearm retention means appreciating closing distance. Bayonet, yes. Running in the street, 16" to 20" fine.

11.5s are nice if you add a suppressor.

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: Sam_H] #15189342 09/02/20
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,930
lvmiker Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,930
Lots of good info on retention of long guns in cqb available on You Tube. I like compact rifles but a 14.5 w/ fixed brake/flash hider works for me.


mike r


Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: lvmiker] #15189350 09/02/20
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 780
jeeper Online Content
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 780
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Lots of good info on retention of long guns in cqb available on You Tube. I like compact rifles but a 14.5 w/ fixed brake/flash hider works for me.


mike r



Yep 14.5 is my favorite right now too.

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15189592 09/02/20
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
G
gunzo Online Content OP
Campfire Guide
OP Online Content
Campfire Guide
G
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
Spent the afternoon weaving cordura straps in & out of buckles, d-rings, swivels, etc. Had a beer & thought if The KK had a bayonet, the punks sure as hell wouldn't have been grabbing his barrel then. A thing to ponder.

A 14.5 is a good length I think for a shorty rifle. But when you have too add pinned & welded? I'd just as soon run a 16 w/a thread protector. maybe I haven't learned the benefits of the flash suppressor.

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15189757 09/02/20
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,505
T
TWR Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,505
Whatever you do will be on camera and no flash hider will ensure you get the attention of every camera out there.

Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: TWR] #15189798 09/02/20
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,930
lvmiker Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,930
Yep, a suppressor works best but a good flash hider makes a huge difference in light signature. The darker it is the more effective the result. Many years ago the AKs had a huge flash and made target acquisition in the deep and dark much easier.


mike r


Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
Re: AR barrel lengths in CQB. [Re: gunzo] #15189894 09/02/20
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
G
gunzo Online Content OP
Campfire Guide
OP Online Content
Campfire Guide
G
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,260
Obvious that I don't know all the ins & outs of AR attributes. Had 'em non stop for 30 years, & played with'em 45 years ago when they were kinda scarce for a country boy. But taking serious interest now, that they seem to be ever more important.


Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

RR1
Who's Online Now
689 registered members (160user, 12344mag, 1_deuce, 1sgLunde, 77 invisible), 1,822 guests, and 1,006 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3










Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.3.23 Page Time: 0.053s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8559 MB (Peak: 0.9977 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2020-10-22 17:13:20 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS