Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Help Identifying an old 404 Jeffery?

Hello!

First post on the forums here.

I inherited a rifle from my father, and I would really appreciate any help from more experienced people in identifying it.


Link to the image gallery I posted here:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/galleries/15189366/404-jeffery

My father purchased this rifle back in the 1950s from the wife of an elderly man who had regularly gone on safari to Kenya, Tanzania, and South Africa. She said that he had gotten the rifle in Africa and brought it home to the states, but I have no way of knowing if that's true.

The rifle is on what appears to be a Mauser action, with a ribbed octagonal-to-round 27.4" barrel. My father said it was chambered in 404 Jeffery, but the barrel is marked 10.4mmx73. From my understanding, the metric designation for the 404 Jeffery should be 10.75x73 so I'm a little confused.

Next to the chambering are several proof marks I know nothing about, and "10/26" which makes me think the barrel was manufactured in October 1926, but that is just a guess. It has the crown over N nitro proof mark next to Stm.G. On the underside of the barrel it is marked "Made in Germany" (written in English), with a stylized cursive "WK", the rifle's serial number, and "BOHLER-STAHL".

The receiver is drilled and tapped for a scope mount, but that is likely an addition my father made. The receiver has proof marks on the left side (A thing over a P, and a thing over a U), along with the rifle's serial number. After removing the scope base and the action from the stock, it has no other markings at all, and doesn't look like it has writing worn off and then refinished. The underside of the receiver, on the flat behind the front action screw also has the full serial number, and the magazine well (Shiny brass-looking piece) has the last two digits of the serial number, along with the trigger. The magazine follower also has the last two digits of serial number, along with a stylized cursive M on the underside, and is highly jeweled on top.

The trigger guard/magazine box has absolutely no markings of any kind on it.

The bolt is highly jeweled like the magazine follower, and has a B and a crown over a U marked on the top of the bolt handle where it meets the bolt body. The safety lever is marked Buehler and is made to swing only enough to not hit a scope, but that is quite possibly a modification my father made and not original to the rifle.

The stock has "Made in Germany" (in English) impressed into it behind the front action screw. The stock is not in great shape (no pictures attached, but it looks like someone tried to re-cut the checkering with a pocketknife and occasionally went outside the pattern). The stock also seems to have a 4-digit number (not the serial number on the barrel/action) impressed into it under the cheek-piece, along with an illegible mark in a circle. The forend tip and grip cap may or may not be real ebony. They're not solid black, and clearly a different kind of wood than the rest of the stock, but I don't know how to tell if it's ebony or just some other hardwood stained to be dark.


The lack of any manufacturer or military or import marks has me confused. The barrel was clearly made in Germany, but the English writing on the barrel and inside the stock mean it was intended for export. The stripper clip guide makes me think it was an old military action with custom work done, but all the serial numbers on the parts are matching which makes me think it was not cobbled together from parts. The cheek piece of the stock, plus the ebony make it seem like a nicer commercial gun, but the numbers and symbol crudely stamped into the wood, plus the terribly redone checkering make it seem like a rifle that had been in someone's inventory, like a military rifle that has seen some use.

Any insight somebody might have on the provenance of this rifle would be very much appreciated, as I have absolutely no clue!

My suggestion is to post this on Germanguns.com and see what answers you get.

It was proofed in October of 1926 and made for export. I agree with cr, take it to German guns, you'll get you answers. I've been a member of the GGCA for 11 years and those guys are good. A chamber cast and slugging the bore might be necessary to nail down the exact cartridge.

I think that one proof mark is a B and along with the U is a standard german proofing marks at the time. Neat rifle with lots of interesting history.

Cool story, what ever it is, I'd figure that out, keep the rifle, work up a couple good loads, take that thing to Africa for Cape Buffalo and large plains game animals, and I'd reflect back and think of my Dad every second of the Safari!

Agree, the old gun deserves another shot at glory...

Well put.

DF

Thank you all for the advice!

I ended up emailing the GGCA asking if they could shed any light on it.

Have about 100 twice-fired DWM cases, a Redding die set, and a few boxes of Barnes 300, 350, and 400gr X bullets from the 70s. Just have to find some appropriate powder.

Not sure if financially I’d ever be able to take it back to Africa, but an Alaskan bear hunt would be a dream. My dad used this rifle to back up his brother on a Kodiak hunt back in the 60s, and I would love a chance to get it in front of another some day.

The crown over the B,U and G are known as "bug marks" and denote various stages of inspection before the actual proof firing. I can't quite make it out but it appears to have been proofed with a 20 gram, steel jacketed bullet. Obviously Bohler steel, good stuff. I think that is a WK I see which I think is the stamp of Wilhelm Kelber, the barrel maker. As far as I know, for that era, any firearm stamped "made in Germany" was for export...which is why I mentioned that in my first post about this wonderful rifle.

Cool old rifle with a great history! It looks like the bolt handle has been modified or replaced at some time, probably when it was drilled and tapped for scope mounting, also seems to have been re-stocked as it doesn’t have the lines of a between the wars German stock, from the back story it was likely modified some time after arriving in the US, the bolt has very post war US look to me.

Well mauser, the stock is plainly stamped :made in Germany" in the recoil lug mortise. It's a German stock made for export. The bolt handle, that's entirely possible but I'm not certain.

Hi ATB! Believe the suggestion to seek info from the referenced Forum is excellent and if I'm reading correctly here, you've done that... In a fashion.

Just some miscellaneous thoughts concerning your info & remarks. The "military action" style you reference regarding military stripper clips, also the style of Oberndorf commercial rifles too. Such feature(s) are not 'deciders', distinguishing anything. Commercial Oberndorf rifles also had just about all parts serialed just as military bretheren. Lack of serialization, suggests either removed (scrubbed) or unserialed parts substituted. Other mauser rifle & component makers did not have the German happy obsession concerning seraiing every part! Yet the conclusion "IF" the rifle commercial Oberndorf, the lack of matching serialed components, very strong suggestion of substitution.

The "standard length" mauser action (commercial or military), is of insufficient length to accommodate a 73mm length "magnum" round. It can be modified, but that another proposition; moving to complex and often less than competent results! If your action is standard length; never originally intended for such "long mag rounds". An Oberndorf magazine/integral trigger guard assembly should bear serial number at exterior-aft, magazine well. Since there were never any "Oberndorf Magnum length military rifles; all used either standard or intermediate mauser actions.

The "WK", my guess is the custom rifle maker, assembling components often to customer specs and providing the stock. Resulting "package." A Krupp barrel would at most only need chambering and a 'smith' merely providing such, not ordinarily meriting barrel nomenclature ID. Likely IF in Germany, "school of Suhl", slang for an array of such quality makers in that city. For WK particularly, alternatively perhaps located in Strasbourg (current Spelling).

Concerning "numbers". Typically, IF Oberndorf commercial mauser action, serial on 'normal' outer receiver ring left. Perhaps alternate of under action beneath receiver ring. "Other" serialization. Not uncommon for German quality custom gunmakers, to utilize their own assembly numbers. Such placed typically on receiver, barrel and stock. A method of keeping all major components matched during building. Strictly internal control, such has nothing directly to do with Oberndorf (or presumably other action manufacturer's) numbers. If a serial number determined to be Oberndorf AND commercial product, the orderly serialization process from early nineteen hundreds to WWII end, can place relatively precisely the "action" manufacture date. Custom rifle resulting, only as inference perhaps.

A final collector-cautionary comment. Viewing a vintage rifle, especially as the obvious product of German components and hand of custom gunsmith... A century later! Three decades plenty of time for interim "custom quality work" as well as hand of Bubba! Needing to "fit the puzzle pieces" as possible given available clues (intrinsic & extrinsic), to make any reasonable assessment of the gun under consideration. In the instant matter "Rigby" would have possessed the skill, expertise and known proclivity for turning out custom magnum based mausers. That said, the "semi-octagon" barrel itself, pretty much urges a typical German custom gunmaker product. Nowadays, "Heinz" rifles - of 57 differing components analogy, more typically the half century and older custom rifles to be seen.

Please do return to share the wisdom of the referenced German rifles Website concerning your interesting rifle!

Here... Just my thoughts & my take
Best & Stay Safe!
John

Welll...I'd bet a significant sum Axel Eichendorf will say that WK is one of the Kelber barrel makers. Very difficult, if not impossible, at this point in time to credit the entire rifle to one of the many Kelbers. Krupp didn't provide finished barrels...and it plainly says "Bohler" steel, not Krupp. Except for the lack of double set triggers and claw mount scope bases and the profile of the stock it has all the hallmarks of a between the wars German sporter. I suspect the DST's were not as prevalent on really big bores as on medium and smaller bores. Express sights are fairly common. That the receiver is drilled and tapped for obvious American scope bases makes me believe that was done way post manufacture and in this country. The stock...who can say at this date and time but it seems highly unusual...and a bit deceptive...that the stock was made over here and stamped "Made in Germany"., especially as the barrel is also stamped the same. If the firearm was made for domestic production in Germany they were not so stamped. At that period in time they were only so stamped if made for export. The bolt handle appears to be original to the rifle but could very well have been re-shaped to clear the scope. Indeed it probably had to be. Butterknife bolt handles were very common at that time and I have several so shaped.

Intriguing rifle! I am interested to see what a chamber cast and barrel check reveals.

Many 404J’s were built on standard length Mauser actions. I owned a nice little Bland takedown in 404J, standard length action.

Beautiful rifle what a treasure. I like how the Germains put even a big medium bore in a trim package. Please follow up on this when you get more info.

I would take that even on a plains game hunt which you can do for less than the cost of a guided big bear hunt. It would also be right at home stalking elk in black timber.

That bolt threw me and I think it and the reciever holes were done later. The stock is designed for iron sights.

The 10.4 mm marking is puzzling, could that be the bore diameter and a nod to the British method of denoting caliber? With 10.75 being groove diameter?

Africa hunt more expensive than an Alaska bear hunt, well maybe.