Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire "All things work together for Good".

I've never heard it put that way before.
It's good to hear your point of view. I'm interested your beliefs on this important subject even if we have some different views.
What do you think about this order that Jesus puts things in? I like to picture things and organize them in my mind for understanding. If you were to put things in an order, say first, second, and so forth....(Ie. Gift of the Holy Spirit, salvation, baptism, faith, etc.)
How does this work?
1st.
2.
3.
4th.[/quote]


First, the R C Sproul video would not work for me. I went to see him when he came tp Portland a few years ago. He is a genius.

When I am asked a question I write an essay using God's Word as the Foundation for my answer. Since I have been a Christian for more than forty-six years I had time to write out more than one hundred. That way I can defend my belief from Scripture without getting emotionally involved. Pick a subject I probably have an essay.

Now to your list. Of course this presupposes God's grace. 2 Timothy 2:25 "Perhaps God will grant them repentance."
1. Humility, which leads to
2. Repentance, which leads to accepting Jesus as Lord, which leads to obedience of
3. Baptism, which leads to more obedience resulting in
4. Growing in grace and knowledge, which leads to
5. Enduring, Jesus says, "He who endured to the end will be saved." (Back to "called, chosen, and faithful.") which leads to
6. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling," Philippians 2:12-13 which leads to
7. Loving God, which leads to obeying the New Testament commands, instructions, injunctions, ordinances,

All this is like cashing a check received as a gift. No working for the gift or earning the gift. Just grateful obedience to the Most High God. Luke 17:10

I didn’t expect you to but thanks for being straight forward in your answer.

I’m curious to know which teachers associated with the New Apostolic Reformation have influenced your views of Christianity. Is John Wimber your man?

The only movement that I desire any inclination towards is the original Jesus movement which began in the first century with Jesus’ earthly ministry. No.
Jesus is my man...!

With all due respect I find nothing related to Christianity in what I’ve been able to understand from your posts. I’ve been asking questions to try to make a determination of school of thought but you don’t reveal anything other than speaking in vague generalities. In my experience that is a very big red flag that your views are likely to be in no way orthodox.

As to “Jesus is my man”; no man is self informed. All men are influenced by the thoughts of those who have gone before them. This is another red flag.

From Lecture 3 I got that their view is that whatever the mind deems as being desirable is what the will is inclined to choose, and we always choose according to our strongest inclination at a given moment. And that the power of coercion can severely reduce our free will, but we still always choose according to our strongest desires. Our free will changes and fluctuates. Then they postulate that we have within us a desire to please Christ, but that desire does not always win out when the moment of truth comes. Man has the ability to choose what he wants...free will. But if man has the moral power and ability to choose righteousness, then “free will is far too grandiose a term to apply to man.” Self-determination is the essence of freedom. For the self to be able to determine its own choices is what free will is all about.
And then they get to their position that if a person can ever respond positively to the things of God, choose Jesus, and choose life, that he must have a desire to do so. And fallen man, in and of himself, no longer has the inclination or the ability to have any desire in his heart for God and for the things of God. That in our fallen state...we still have our free will...but it is now only inclined toward evil and disinclined toward righteousness, because we no longer have the natural ability to make righteous decisions.
This is what I got, from the lecture, to be his beliefs regarding this subject matter.

That's because you and several others look at the Gospel as a set of rules to live by. You want to make sure everybody lives up to your standard. That's foolishness run amok. That's not what the Bible teaches at all. The theme of the Bible is that you can't do well enough trying obey your way into anything. You never could,no one ever could. That's the whole point. You have to trust in someone other than yourself. You don't need a set of rules passed down from OT days or whatever rules you can find in the NT either. What you need is an inward guide to lead you in the correct way every day of your life. Situations change,God doesn't, but what he wants you to do may be worlds and 2000 years removed from what he wanted Paul or Peter to do.

I absolutly do believe that the whole point of the bible is to get you to the point where you can be lead by the Holy Spirit. When you get to that point is is ridiculous to argue about this or that verse or what Paul meant or if his works are even scripture. It's all pointless because if you are born again,you are a seeker of truth.You know what is right by the very Spirit that lives in you. If you understood anything about the Bible at all you would see that the whole thing is meant to get you to a one on one relationship with the Spirit of Truth. I mean the right now alive Truth which is exactly what many of us ignored for years,while we argued about what Jesus told Paul or James to do and if we should make sure to do the same if we wanted to be saved. All that is a bunch of legalistic BS that leads you to nothing but judgement of others. Do you really want to stand in front of the Judge and start telling him what all you did?

That’s OK. I’m fine with whatever you choose to think or believe regarding our discourse. That I don’t fit into one of your religious categories is not a concern, or a problem, for me. My views are ‘mine’. I’m not a robot; I’m not a conformer; and critical thinking always beats a team jersey....to my eyes anyway.Following Jesus and His teachings is ‘not’ being “self-informed.” I stand by what I said.

Are you comfortable telling Jesus is Word is NOT Truth? Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. The first century Christians were not influenced by the culture of their time. They influenced the culture. We are to do the same thing today. No matter if we are "worlds and 2000 years removed" from when the apostles taught. When righteous missionaries go to the fields they don't teach whatever comes to their mind off the cuff. They teach God's Word starting with the first verse and going through the New Testament.

No. I don’t look at the Gospel as a set of rules. I was raised that way but found what I was taught to be false and nothing more than rank legalism. I doubt that you know anything of what I believe because you have very obviously reached very wrong conclusions giving the appearance of making assumptions concerning what I believe.

It’s interesting that you won’t give share personal experience concerning what you have been taught and learned inside you apart from scripture. As strongly as you pronounce the non orthodox views that you hold one would think that you would think you’d be anxious to lend credibility to your views by doing so.

And to try to help others get out of their errors.

300 yrs empire wide?.. 🤔
We are talking some 60 Roman Emperors
in the first 3 centuries AD., the empire was also
divided into east/west for a period..
- How many of those Emperors had a systematic
state program of targeting christians?

Why do christians feel the need to beat up
the story of their persecution?

Sorry for any false assumptions. I wouldn't phrase the question as "apart" from scripture. What I would say is that scripture,and not only that contained in the Christian bible, has enabled me to see in such a way that I wouldn't look to scripture for all my answers as I once did. If we are truly right now "Seated in heavenly places in Christ",as the scriptures tell us,then why look for answers in what Christ told a follower 2000 years ago as the final authority?

If you also thoughtfully consider how much of our interpretation of foundational scripture is skewed by culture,and always has been with the English Catholic being among the first, it becomes evident that scripture has always been manipulated. Possibly that's why God has a better way. The whole purpose of Jesus was so you can be ONE with God. That's what Jesus preached and if you preach that today you get the same legalistic reaction about "What scriptures do you obey and which ones do you break?" It doesn't matter at all because in HIM,I have obeyed them all. In me I broke them all. It doesn't matter though if I am trusting in HIM rather than in me. If I am always looking for things to do better or constantly guilty for not being good enough,I am still looking at me and will never be full and fulfilled until I stop that and start just looking at perfection,and I mean me as perfect,cause you can't separate us,one from the other.

This is how we end up with ordained openly gay pastors.

I guess being gay is about the worst sin you can think of. Just goes to show where your mind is. What would you think about having a self righteous pastor? Would that ever occur to you as a sin? I sort of doubt it. How about the difference between a pastor who is attracted to men and admits it is a sin and trying to overcome it verses a pastor who gets drunk occasionally and slaps his wife around? Hey, how about one who weighs 350 and is eating his self to death without a clue? Which sin is the greatest?

Both 'free will' and 'self determination' are simplistic terms that say nothing about the countless factors that shape and form our will and how we respond to challenges and events. We don't live, think or act in isolation....the world and it's events form and shape us, character, personality, circumstances, often in ways that are not of our choosing.

All sin is the same in God's eyes, but teachers of the word are held to higher standards by God.

A non repentant gay, drunk, adulterer, child molester, whatever, in the pattern of sin is headed straight to hell and leading a congregation to hell. This is so sad and makes me freaking angry. Its no different than a pastor being married, having girlfriends, and bringing them to Church, and the leadership approving of it. There is a special place in hell. Sorry, I'm pissed.

Chill sometime.

Leading others to hell tends to upset me.

Aren’t the ones that end up in hell predestined to go there...?

And BTW, I've got GAY friends.