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Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: jwp475] #15208514 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by jwp475

I disagree with you assertion. There were plenty of negligent discharges with revolvers before semi autos became common place.

Neither one is free from unsafe handling, but to claim a revllver is less prone to unsafe handling is ridiculous.


Yeah, we definitely disagree. I find your position on the question unfathomable.
I find your position ridiculous. If i can teach someone to safely handle a revolver, i can just as easily teach them to safely handle a semi auto.

The question, however, regards first time buyers with low motivation to learn about their guns.


"History is a set of lies that people have agreed upon."

- Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #15208564 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by jwp475

I disagree with you assertion. There were plenty of negligent discharges with revolvers before semi autos became common place.

Neither one is free from unsafe handling, but to claim a revllver is less prone to unsafe handling is ridiculous.


Yeah, we definitely disagree. I find your position on the question unfathomable.
I find your position ridiculous. If i can teach someone to safely handle a revolver, i can just as easily teach them to safely handle a semi auto.

The question, however, regards first time buyers with low motivation to learn about their guns.


They arent any better off with a revolver, a semi auto ain't brain surgery.
If anyone can't take the time to familiarize themselves with a deadly weapon then they are fools




I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: jwp475] #15208588 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye

The question, however, regards first time buyers with low motivation to learn about their guns.


They arent any better off with a revolver.


I know from personal experience teaching folks that this is not the case. Instruction in safe handling of a semiauto is a lot more involved than with a double action revolver. There are simply more variables and safety concerns, with a semiauto, for the low-motivated first-time shooter, than is the case with a double action revolver.

The high motivated learner, with a high interest in firearms, is a different case. The difference in that case might be a bit narrower.


"History is a set of lies that people have agreed upon."

- Napoleon Bonaparte
Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: Triggernosis] #15208781 09/09/20
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When the untrained have cocked the revolver and then have to let it down there tends to be a pucker factor involved.

Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #15208782 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye

The question, however, regards first time buyers with low motivation to learn about their guns.


They arent any better off with a revolver.


I know from personal experience teaching folks that this is not the case. Instruction in safe handling of a semiauto is a lot more involved than with a double action revolver. There are simply more variables and safety concerns, with a semiauto, for the low-motivated first-time shooter, than is the case with a double action revolver.

The high motivated learner, with a high interest in firearms, is a different case. The difference in that case might be a bit narrower.


BS, I've taught first time gun buyers with a semi auto as their first handgjn and it ain't brain surgery





I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #15208795 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye

The question, however, regards first time buyers with low motivation to learn about their guns.


They arent any better off with a revolver.


I know from personal experience teaching folks that this is not the case. Instruction in safe handling of a semiauto is a lot more involved than with a double action revolver. There are simply more variables and safety concerns, with a semiauto, for the low-motivated first-time shooter, than is the case with a double action revolver.

The high motivated learner, with a high interest in firearms, is a different case. The difference in that case might be a bit narrower.


Don't point a weapon at anything that you don't intend to shoot, keep your finger off of the trigger unless you intend to shoot. That's the same fir both type weapons.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: jeeper] #15208800 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by jeeper


When the untrained have cocked the revolver and then have to let it down there tends to be a pucker factor involved.


Untrained and unfamiliar is not a good combo for any type weapon or piece of machinery.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #15208808 09/09/20
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A "teacher" explains and demonstrates why something is done before teaching how it is done. The 4 Rules work if one understands the why of their importance and ALWAYS follows them. If you can teach someone how to load the gun you can teach them to make it safe.

There is no limit to the ways the ignorant can phug things up. Teach a few CCW classes and you will understand how many gun owners will point a loaded gun at others and unconsciously put their finger on the trigger. All will deny it until they see the video.


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Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #15208967 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye

I know from personal experience teaching folks that this is not the case. Instruction in safe handling of a semiauto is a lot more involved than with a double action revolver. There are simply more variables and safety concerns, with a semiauto, for the low-motivated first-time shooter, than is the case with a double action revolver.

The high motivated learner, with a high interest in firearms, is a different case. The difference in that case might be a bit narrower.


That is nonsense.

Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: Birdwatcher] #15209095 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Originally Posted by MOGC
Bill Jordan accidentally shot and killed another Border Patrol officer while practicing his fast draw in his office. The .357 bullet went through the wall and struck the other officer typing a report in the adjoining room.


I wasn’t going to mention the killing a guy part but thanks for explaining the circumstance.

I would imagine he’d practiced a fast draw at least a hundred times with no consequences, dunno if he customarily dry fired while doing so. Clearly his ingrained muscle memory at that particular instant led to tragedy.


This story is often relayed inaccurately.

http://www.odmp.org/officer/11072-border-patrol-inspector-john-a-rector

Bill Jordan was not practicing his fast draw. He removed a loaded gun from a drawer, failed to make the weapon safe, and shot it in a direction he shouldn't have.

Don't do that.

IC-B

Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: jeeper] #15209195 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by jeeper


When the untrained have cocked the revolver and then have to let it down there tends to be a pucker factor involved.

Yep. That's why I tell newbies to forget that hammer is even there.


"History is a set of lies that people have agreed upon."

- Napoleon Bonaparte
Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: Triggernosis] #15209209 09/09/20
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You folks suggesting that a revolver isn't simpler than an automatic in its manual of arms are shoveling sand against the tide. Are you attempting to gaslight someone?


"History is a set of lies that people have agreed upon."

- Napoleon Bonaparte
Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #15209366 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye

Are you attempting to gaslight someone?


No, but you are



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Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: Triggernosis] #15209397 09/09/20
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Revolver :
Press cylinder latch
Press cylinder open
Insert rounds
Close cylinder
Pull trigger till done
Press cylinder latch
Press cylinder open
Slap ejector rod
Close cylinder

Auto (striker fired / no safety to be most revolver-esque)
Load mag
Insert mag
Rack slide
Pull trigger till done
Drop mag
Rack slide to make your self feel better that it’s empty


What did I miss ? (Big fuggin difference :sarcasm )

Last edited by jmd025; 09/09/20.

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Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: Triggernosis] #15209399 09/09/20
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Both have simple manual of arms, just different. People aren't as stupid as some seem to think (some are, though). It's just like all the women who come into the store and their husbands have them convinced they're the weaker sex and can't rack a slide. In 2 minutes, 95% of them are doing it just fine with the overhand push-pull method.

Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #15209500 09/09/20
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
You folks suggesting that a revolver isn't simpler than an automatic in its manual of arms are shoveling sand against the tide. Are you attempting to gaslight someone?


You're regurgitating old mantras that don't apply in 2020.

Especially when you consider juice vs squeeze.

Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: deflave] #15210998 09/10/20
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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
You folks suggesting that a revolver isn't simpler than an automatic in its manual of arms are shoveling sand against the tide. Are you attempting to gaslight someone?


You're regurgitating old mantras that don't apply in 2020.

Especially when you consider juice vs squeeze.


Can't fathom for the life of me why anyone would think that a semiauto pist is too complicated for a newbie?
Police recruitsin large metropolitan arenas most never held a pustll until the academy and they do just fine




I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: jwp475] #15211016 09/10/20
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Originally Posted by jwp475
Can't fathom for the life of me why anyone would think that a semiauto pist is too complicated for a newbie?
Police recruitsin large metropolitan arenas most never held a pustll until the academy and they do just fine


I guess it depends on the newbie. There's certainly more to understand about a semiauto pistol in order to operate it safely, though, so someone who's not really interested in learning about his gun (e.g., it's just going to be loaded up and stuffed in a sock drawer, just in case) should, in my opinion, be steered in the direction of a good double action revolver.


"History is a set of lies that people have agreed upon."

- Napoleon Bonaparte
Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: The_Real_Hawkeye] #15211028 09/10/20
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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by jwp475
Can't fathom for the life of me why anyone would think that a semiauto pist is too complicated for a newbie?
Police recruitsin large metropolitan arenas most never held a pustll until the academy and they do just fine


I guess it depends on the newbie. There's certainly more to understand about a semiauto pistol in order to operate it safely, though, so someone who's not really interested in learning about his gun (e.g., it's just going to be loaded up and stuffed in a sock drawer, just in case) should, in my opinion, be steered in the direction of a good double action revolver.


Why don't you layout this perceived complication thst you claim a semi auto pistol possesses.

They are not complicated at all


I font care where they put it ut should be a semi auto




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Re: The wrong gun & the wrong training? [Re: Triggernosis] #15211033 09/10/20
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Police recruits are generally 20 to 35 years old, don't have arthritis yet and aren't suffering the long-term effects of carpal tunnel syndrome Etc. They are generally plenty strong enough to work the slide of an automatic without pointing at toward their elbow or side or someone standing alongside them. And of course you have them for 6 to 8 months were you can correct them or send their ass down the road.

Some of us were actually around training those recruits with revolvers and through the transition to semi-automatic pistols. That group will generally do fine with whatever you train them on and yes, much of the new generation have never held a pistol before the academy.

Training private CCW folks is another matter. Lots of them are well into their golden years and they're not going to put in the time or effort to become class a action shooters with a semi-auto. many of them have already purchased a revolver before the training begins Many of those folks are in fact better served by the simplicity and ease of operation of a double action revolver.

I realize a lot of what goes on here is Hive think and trying to aggravate people out of your tree house. And right here is the only place where it changes anything and most of that in people's imagination.

Last edited by SargeMO; 09/10/20. Reason: damn talk to text

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