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Joined: Jan 2013
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Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
I'm a forester, but in the South, not the West. However, my understanding from what I've learned is that it's a combination of dry weather, lack of low-intensity fires to consume the fine fuels which are needed to sustain a fire at its beginning, and dense canopies which allow fires to carry through the crowns of the trees. More actively logging these areas, both clearcutting and thinning, would do much to break the fuel chain. Prescribed burning would help, although it is risky and I doubt it could be done on a scale to make a difference. (Obviously, none of this applies to the chaparall fires such as they get around LA.) More people living in and around these forests doesn't help. Many of those folks don't want trees cut and are scared of controlled burns. Activist judges and an increasingly tree-hugger mentality in the forestry agencies also prevents the actions which could reduce the intensity of some of these fires.

Pre-colonial times, the trees were all large and spaced widely apart; frequent, low-intensity fires kept the fuel from building up. Very much like the longleaf pine savannahs of the pre-colonial South. Maybe there is a Western forester on the board who can speak with more direct experience.


X2 from a forester in the Northeast. You hit the nail on the head.


-Matt

"The proof of the whisky is in the drinking, the proof of the rifle is in the shooting."
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Originally Posted by RiverRider
Originally Posted by Valsdad


Grazing helps in some areas, as long as the rancher gets to put as many cows as he determines is good for the land, which is not necessarily agreeing with a range specialist and wildlife biologist for leaving enough graze for other species (it cuts into the rancher's profit, there's that money thing again)



I've been the range specialist, or more properly "Range Conservationist." I was effectively a paralegal, and administrative judges made the resource decisions. Unfortunately it always seemed that the common sense thing to do was the first possibility discarded for one special interest or another.

Originally Posted by Valsdad


No doubt in my mind the feral horse folks, the save the trees folks, the save the squirrel folks, the sage grouse folks, the pine marten, fisher, wolverine, wolf, butterfly, etc folks and their suits are a BIG problem, and again money rears its ugly head. The folks involved in these things, some of them at least, have a vested interest in keeping things as they are. Lawyers for their groups make no money if they don't have cases to pursue in court.



Sadly, all true. People who "feel" this way or that are given voice through funding, lawyers get rich, and natural resources suffer.

Originally Posted by Valsdad


y'all let me know when you figure out a workable solution to these forest/wildland fires.....................I've been waiting to see on since the Laguna Fire in the early 70's and few more since then.............well, maybe a few more than a few.



I'm just a lowly Range Management major who only got to ply the "trade" for a brief time, but my observations tell me that it's all much like a dammed up river. A certain amount of water has to be allowed to flow. You can close the gates and impound ALL the water for a while, but all that water is going to go downstream eventually and nothing is going to stop it. It's my opinion that excessive fire suppression is proving to be a very bad thing.






I believe you've hit the nail on the head, RR
And have agreed for quite some time !


I've always been a curmudgeon - now I'm an old curmudgeon.
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The forest can manage itself, it’s just a little relentless in its execution.


Does global warming come from forest fires or vice versa?

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Climate alarmists never seem to include sun spots in their calculation.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Climate alarmists never seem to include sun spots in their calculation.


That's because they only occur at night. smile


For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

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Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
I'm a forester, but in the South, not the West. However, my understanding from what I've learned is that it's a combination of dry weather, lack of low-intensity fires to consume the fine fuels which are needed to sustain a fire at its beginning, and dense canopies which allow fires to carry through the crowns of the trees. More actively logging these areas, both clearcutting and thinning, would do much to break the fuel chain. Prescribed burning would help, although it is risky and I doubt it could be done on a scale to make a difference. (Obviously, none of this applies to the chaparall fires such as they get around LA.) More people living in and around these forests doesn't help. Many of those folks don't want trees cut and are scared of controlled burns. Activist judges and an increasingly tree-hugger mentality in the forestry agencies also prevents the actions which could reduce the intensity of some of these fires.

Pre-colonial times, the trees were all large and spaced widely apart; frequent, low-intensity fires kept the fuel from building up. Very much like the longleaf pine savannahs of the pre-colonial South. Maybe there is a Western forester on the board who can speak with more direct experience.

True this^^^
I'm no forester, but I have an extensive collection of books and photos showing this county from 1890's up thru the railroad logging days of the 1930's and mining photos. Timber was very big, very sparse with very little understory. If a dummy like me can see this, why can't our policy makers figure it out?
By the way, I am under an evac warning right now..unsure whether to fire up the D-7 and make a couple more laps around the house...or just load up the guns and valuables, hook up the travel trailer and get ready to go.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Run a couple more with the D7. If you have some trees, push them over away from the house. The ones you don't like first.


Up hills slow,
Down hills fast
Tonnage first and
Safety last.
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Originally Posted by flintlocke
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
I'm a forester, but in the South, not the West. However, my understanding from what I've learned is that it's a combination of dry weather, lack of low-intensity fires to consume the fine fuels which are needed to sustain a fire at its beginning, and dense canopies which allow fires to carry through the crowns of the trees. More actively logging these areas, both clearcutting and thinning, would do much to break the fuel chain. Prescribed burning would help, although it is risky and I doubt it could be done on a scale to make a difference. (Obviously, none of this applies to the chaparall fires such as they get around LA.) More people living in and around these forests doesn't help. Many of those folks don't want trees cut and are scared of controlled burns. Activist judges and an increasingly tree-hugger mentality in the forestry agencies also prevents the actions which could reduce the intensity of some of these fires.

Pre-colonial times, the trees were all large and spaced widely apart; frequent, low-intensity fires kept the fuel from building up. Very much like the longleaf pine savannahs of the pre-colonial South. Maybe there is a Western forester on the board who can speak with more direct experience.

True this^^^
I'm no forester, but I have an extensive collection of books and photos showing this county from 1890's up thru the railroad logging days of the 1930's and mining photos. Timber was very big, very sparse with very little understory. If a dummy like me can see this, why can't our policy makers figure it out?
By the way, I am under an evac warning right now..unsure whether to fire up the D-7 and make a couple more laps around the house...or just load up the guns and valuables, hook up the travel trailer and get ready to go.

Originally Posted by Dave_Skinner
Run a couple more with the D7. If you have some trees, push them over away from the house. The ones you don't like first.


Yeah, if you have the time flintlocke, it makes sense to clear some more.

Just saw pics of my brother's friend's place down in that Valley Fire I posted about 2 weeks or so ago. My bro was out there yesterday for a visit. Said 39 of the guy's 40 acres are "toast", guy lost some old cars, 3 tractors, outbuildings, etc. House and the acre around it was saved because it was basically bare dirt there. Brother said some of the guy's cars that were parked on granite boulders or on patches of bare decomposed granite made it through with some damage but not burnt up. Anything that had some oak leaves and duff nearby is gone. Sad to say, as the guy had goats, cleared brush, and limbed up the oaks around the place. Seems a lot of the oaks survived, as they are "designed" to do when there's not a lot of brush around them.

Hope your evac order gets cancelled and that we get some rain sometime within September. Tis not a good fire season for sure.


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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