24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Powder charge or seating depth first? #15228603 09/16/20
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 652
300Winnie Online Content OP
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 652
Hello again, getting ready to move on to the 200 grain ELDX in my son’s .300WM. This process of trying to find a load for 178/180’s has me second guessing my methods.

So, start with one powder, one powder charge and look for a node with seating depth...and then play with different powders/charge amounts...

OR,

Start with one or more powders and charge weights to find what seems to shoot the best and then move to seating depth adjustment to fine tune?

What say you?

Thank you for trying to keep me sane.

300winnie
PS. Also posted in Reloading/Big Game

BP-B2

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15228661 09/16/20
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 15,883
Pappy348 Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 15,883
According to the cheat sheet I got from Berger a while back, they recommend Method 1 with their bullets. I tend to pick a powder and play with charges, after getting as close to the lands as the magazine allows. Seldom futz around much with seating-depth as long as I get decent hunting accuracy with the bullet of choice.


What fresh Hell is this?

Don't be a Provincial Nitwit.
Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15228717 09/16/20
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,471
F
flintlocke Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,471
I've struggled with load development as much as anybody so I can't give good advice, but one thing that occurs to me is: in the last 20 years or so, there are so many factory loads that shoot lights out in modern guns, using factory deep seated OAL dimensions....it makes me wonder if chasing the lands isn't secondary to barrel harmonics?


guilty of white privilege : for 55 years I had the privilege to get up and go to work...to help feed the folks that wanted to sleep in.
Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15228798 09/16/20
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 6,222
NVhntr Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 6,222
If you want to go down the rabbit hole here is an interesting study of bullet jump. Bottom line, the optimum (unless you want to continually chase the lands) is further back than most think.
I do powder charge first, find an accurate velocity node, then try seating adjustments.


Steve
Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15228806 09/16/20
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,791
G
gunswizard Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
G
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,791
Been handloading for nearly 50 yrs. now and have always been able to find an accurate load by means of powder charge. I have never fooled with seating depth, I have always seated bullets to loading manual COAL specs.

IC-A

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15228831 09/16/20
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 33,061
bsa1917hunter Offline
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 33,061
Sorry you are having issues. I always start at .020" off the lands with cup and core bullets and also premiums like partitions. Then i adjust charge weight. Hence, "work up your load". On a 300wm, ill jump 1/2 a grain at a time until i reach max book loads. You'll see the accuracy nodes, as you work up and find the optimal charge weight.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.

Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
P


BSA
Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15228872 09/16/20
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,291
vapodog Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,291
I've said that if accuracy was a foot long, then 10 inches of it is finding the right bullet. The remaining two inches are not achievable but some of it can be.

IMO changing powders holds the best probability.....then the amount of it and lastly the "jump" to the lands. All this assumes that the gun's bedding is fine and the scope is fine as well.

As a result of this I have decided that if I can get real 1 1/4" 5-shot groups. the frustration of improving on it isn't worth the gain......I'm a hunter and not a benchrest shooter.

BTW....there is absolutely nothing correct about what I just typed....it's simply the way I do things.....right or wrong!

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15229233 09/16/20
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,242
navlav8r Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,242
Been loading since ‘66 and I “grew up” just going at it with powder charge. I did experiment with my 243 varmint loads but my seating depth changes were rudimentary at best. I got more serious about it with a Hornady tool

My most accurate “carry around” rifle is probably a 221 FB, Model 700. I’ve related this before but on one occasion it put 10, 40 gr Berger HP into 0.505” at 100 yds. I figured that if I wanted to really investigate the two techniques that it would be the rifle to use. So I went at both ways, first changing powder charges and a recommended seating depth and then tinkering with seating depth both ways. Then I went the other way starting just barely off the lands with a middle of the road powder charge and then moving the seating depth. I could generally see a pattern in group tightening or loosening. Then to changing powder charges.

Not necessarily the perfect study design with me doing all the shooting but with both techniques, I ended up at the same point...the same powder and seating depth.

So now I still start with powder charge tests and if I get the velocities and reasonable accuracy I want, I’ll then go to seating depth. If get really low velocities or huge groups I'll go at it with another bullet first or second, with another powder. Someone once said, “good groups MAY repeat but bad groups will ALWAYS repeat.” 😊

Last edited by navlav8r; 09/16/20.

NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15229362 09/16/20
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 652
300Winnie Online Content OP
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 652
Thank you everyone. Looks like I’ll stick to the way I’ve been doing it for 30+ years...pick a bullet and powder (or two or three) and work through charge weights first.

Glad to see I’m not alone in that camp, and for the most part it has worked well.

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15229376 09/16/20
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,322
L
lotech Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
L
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,322
Moderate charge with a suitable powder, but always, seating depth first. This process has worked well for me.

IC-B

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15229390 09/16/20
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,689
K
keith Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,689
300 winnie.......


Remember an age old saying that is very true

Kiss the lands

Find pressure

Rock on


Most get lost on the rock on part

Measuring to the lands is an issue - Hornady Comparitor or Davidson Ogive gauges are used to measure ogive lengths vs OAL off the tip

Finding the pressure simple

Rock on....make adjustments

many loads per bullet, powder, and load can be accomplished in 30 rounds max

Work with one powder and bullet at a time, then move on. Be methodical, work up to find pressure. Then back off, work up carefully.

Do not use mixed brands of brass, stick with a single primer, then change once you have tweeked the powder charge, then work on seating depth.

Amazing accuracy is attainable from stock factory guns, chase the lands as leade grows, keep the copper out of your barrel

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15229427 09/16/20
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 17,095
T
tikkanut Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
T
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 17,095
Originally Posted by 300Winnie
Hello again, getting ready to move on to the 200 grain ELDX in my son’s .300WM. This process of trying to find a load for 178/180’s has me second guessing my methods.

So, start with one powder, one powder charge and look for a node with seating depth...and then play with different powders/charge amounts...

OR,

Start with one or more powders and charge weights to find what seems to shoot the best and then move to seating depth adjustment to fine tune?

What say you?

Thank you for trying to keep me sane.

300winnie
PS. Also posted in Reloading/Big Game



Load to magazine length.....work up best loads........

its a 300 WM........not a target gun.......

Go kill an Elk

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15229435 09/16/20
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,689
K
keith Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,689
All you can do.......

leave .020 Short of OAL in touching the mag or problems will develop.

NON vld type of bullets help in spades in this regard.....think partitions...they are jump friendly!

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15229444 09/16/20
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,391
SheriffJoe Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,391


Powder charge with experimentation with seating depths.

The lands will erode faster than most people realize, so be aware that you'll have to adjust bullet jump at least every few hundred rounds. More often if involved in precision benchrest shooting applications.

Better results may be experienced in seating at longer bullet jump measurements to start with for overall performance and reliability for hunting.





Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: gunswizard] #15229471 09/16/20
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,689
K
keith Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,689
Originally Posted by gunswizard
Been handloading for nearly 50 yrs. now and have always been able to find an accurate load by means of powder charge. I have never fooled with seating depth, I have always seated bullets to loading manual COAL specs.



= clueless and proud of it!

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15229479 09/16/20
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 50,207
M
Mule Deer Online Content
Campfire Oracle
Online Content
Campfire Oracle
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 50,207
In my experience both monolithic hunting bullets (such as Barnes, Hornady GMX, Nosler E-Tip, etc.) and many of today's high-BC lead-cores (NOT just Bergers) often shoot MUCH better when seated deeper. Have seen groups shrink by up to 75% when seating the same bullet up to .1 inch deeper, sometimes even more, when using the same powder charge.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: keith] #15229520 09/16/20
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,257
B
boatanchor Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,257
Originally Posted by keith
Originally Posted by gunswizard
Been handloading for nearly 50 yrs. now and have always been able to find an accurate load by means of powder charge. I have never fooled with seating depth, I have always seated bullets to loading manual COAL specs.



= clueless and proud of it!


WOW, have to agree with keith on this one, I don't have even one single rifle that the bullets are seated to loading manual COAL specs !!!!!!!

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: Mule Deer] #15229592 09/16/20
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,257
B
boatanchor Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,257
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
In my experience both monolithic hunting bullets (such as Barnes, Hornady GMX, Nosler E-Tip, etc.) and many of today's high-BC lead-cores (NOT just Bergers) often shoot MUCH better when seated deeper. Have seen groups shrink by up to 75% when seating the same bullet up to .1 inch deeper, sometimes even more, when using the same powder charge.


I agree on some rifles this is absolutely the case, but then there are others..............

My 300WM steadfastly refuses to shoot any bullet that is not touching the lands, my current load is Berger 210gr VLD .010" jammed

I also have a 22-250AI that shoots the 80gr Berger with a .010" jam

Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: boatanchor] #15229622 09/16/20
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 50,207
M
Mule Deer Online Content
Campfire Oracle
Online Content
Campfire Oracle
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 50,207
Yep, that's been my experience as well. Almost anything can work. In fact I believe my own .300 WM shoots the 210 VLD best when seated very close to the lands (but not jammed).

Which is why I keep an open mind on seating depth!


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: Powder charge or seating depth first? [Re: 300Winnie] #15229713 09/16/20
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,242
navlav8r Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,242
If it works, it works...


NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

RR1
Who's Online Now
633 registered members (10gaugeman, 1300, 1234, 12344mag, 160user, 06hunter59, 69 invisible), 1,694 guests, and 879 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3










Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.3.22 Page Time: 0.040s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8786 MB (Peak: 1.0394 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2020-09-25 16:16:06 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS