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Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013 |
Some decockers are designed to pull down and not push up to fire.
That is ergo and safety fugged up reaching your thumb up to pull down to fire
And puts the lever down where it could possibly bite you firing or move it enough if it makes contact with your strong hand thumb or an object somehow while fiing to put the wpn into safe or "false safe" midway and stop firing.
I have never had a aversion to decockers.
Biggest thing alot of people dont do is decock them pointed down range.
Always decock pointed down range.
No reason not too.
Take for granted type of stuff in a mechanical device.
Any mechanical device can fail at any time.
Lots of people dont think that way.
Then ya got the other side of the spectrum with cock and lock receiver safety guns and people riding a hammer down on a loaded chamber.
Every design has inherent common sense factors to obey.
Then you got striker fire designs with and without lever safeties.
And safety designs built into their triggers and internally also.
Bottomline is most people need some training with pistols.
And think of all the people buying guns now for the 1st time ever.
Lots of new gun owners with basically 0 experience.
And little or no common sense handling guns outside of their owners manual or videos on the web.
Or what guns can do or cant do outside of what they have seen on movies.
Its kinda scary thinking of all the new gun owners since march timeline of this year.
Typical example was a couple of days ago at a LGS.
little professional office worker/ smart phone kiosk at the mall type looking guy looking at a smaller sheild pistol.
Wanting to carry it stashed in his belly under his belt.....
All worried about having to buy new clothes for it for some reason.
Owner looked at me like" WTF help me out with this guy".
Started telling dude in a friendly advice take it or leave manner.
Last place ya wanna carry a loaded firearm is in your belly.
Blow you jewels out, hit a femoral artery.
Blow up your pelvic girdle.
Too many binding spots from your body and clothing from normal movement to carry a pistol in your belly.
Started discussing IWB and OWB holsters.
Belt carry holsters.
Ankle holsters.
Small of the back OWB holsters
Kydex molded to model holsters
Ect ect ect.
Basically how you want your muzzle clear line of your body as much as possible and being able to bring a pistol into action without fanning people you dont wanna shoot with your muzzle pointed at em.
Mostly dont fugging belly carry so you dont fughing shoot your fugging self 1 day...
Dude probably been watching too many movies....
I left...
Tried to help out in a friendly way as best I could.
Aint my fault you didnt have a BB gun growing up and aint got a lick of sense....
Dude
Obviously he had been thinking about it, so that means he is gonna no matter what ....
Hit the trifecta combo some day...
Shoot his willy off
Maybe a nut also
And a femoral arty / femur bone strike and shatter.
Thru the bottom of pelvic grirdle/hit lower spine or maybe straight out the bung hole.
Blow a knee cap off
Drill a foot.
Peritonitis from gut shooting your ownself.
One of my BiL wanted me to help him with CC pistol purchase. Got him over a couple weeks back and first thing I ask is "how are you planning to carry it?" he gives me a blank look and says he hadn't thought of that just been researching carry pistols on line. I drag out my box o holsters, he goes "why so many" I say some were mistakes from the get go and some get rotated depending on the weather and what kind of clothes I'm forced wear. Tell him how much some cost, he goes "damn, thats more than I wanted to spend on the gun!" Took him to the range with a bag full of pistols and a pile of ammo from my hoard. At least he listens well and didn't cover me or anybody else and got a taste of the differences between small, big and light, heavy etc. When we got back he had a better understanding why I have a large chest drawer full of holster options. And mistakes. And yes, I personally will not stick a pistol in my pants aimed at my nuts and guts. As I age my dunlap disease has progressed taking that option off the table anyways. How does anybody get in a vehicle and drive with a handgun stuck inside the front of their pants? I'm getting old but still really like my nuts and stuff. Good on you for trying to help, Their are people who will listen to advice and mull on it and use it in some form. Then ya got others. Im sure many have run into this type or know of em 1st hand . The "fact checker" with someone of the same mentality after you speak with them. I'm gonna use me and slumlords ex "friend" Willy G as an example. Always come up to ya a day or several days later with this line. The classic ..... " John said this , that, or the other". Whatever.... Aint no point in even wasting O2 again talking with em. You just kinda reply.....Yep, uh huh, really, well if that aint so, I'll be darned. Just let the moron cruise on auto pilot and let him think he 1 upped ya fact checking with John. Slumlord had ta deal with this all the time at work. Willy G was a 15 yr janitor there with a 4yr degree, and slumlord was the city and county GIS head honcho. LOL!!! Aggravate the hell outta slumlord with all the " john said" stuff a day or two later. TFF!!! His mental equivalent bud John, his "Mr fact checker" go to guy. Shot his own fughing leg deer hunting and then made up the story after the fact it was a good thing cause the docs supposedly found bone cancer in the leg when they had to amputate it off. Same 2 Rocket scientist in a pop up deer blind couple years later. Both falling asleep. Then BOOM!!!!! " Mr John said" touches off a round from a .270 weatherby magnum. And misses willy g,s leg by a couple of inches. Yepper........
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,854
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,854 |
I had a new ss P 85 once it was a good shooter utterly reliable, ran a couple hundred factory rds and 1000+ handloads thru it. Not 1 malfunction. Then 1 day I got a chance to pickup a LNIB CZ 75 so I did, this was back in the days where getting a cz 75 with no importer marks out of a commie block country rated damn near impossible. This one was legally brought in and I lucked out but got stupid and sold the p-85. I like cz's but a couple months a go when I wanted a new pocket rocket , I had no problem buying a Ruger ec-9 and no reliability problems with it either. What was wrong with the Jericho? Seemed like you were damn proud of it ,why move it you only got one hand or something? Mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,795
Campfire Regular
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,795 |
A thread that knocks Berreta and pumps Ruger? What wrong with this discussion?
Last edited by MM879; 09/16/20.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013 |
Hogue makes a grip for many (all?) in that P85 through P95 series that makes a big (positive) difference. Placing a phone in pick up order at 8am in a few . Midsouthshooterssupply 3 miles down the bypass. Plus I wanna show the pistol off to the guys at the pickup counter too. LOL!!!
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013 |
A thread that knocks Berreta and pumps Ruger? What wrong with discussion? Have you ever used and dealt with a Berreta M9 in just about every enviorment on the planet. It aint pretty...... The open top slide/barrel combo is not soldier friendly. Everything from mud, fine gravel , rain, snow, dried leaves, dirt gets into em. Plus they are loose after about 1k rounds. And if ya get one that hits POA/ POI nicely. Then you was blessed. Kentucky windage drastically with some and others not so much. Kinda like a box of chocolates......... big difference in being "Joe useage proof" versus nice take it out of the safe for range day use in the civilian world. JMO. JME.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013 |
I had a new ss P 85 once it was a good shooter utterly reliable, ran a couple hundred factory rds and 1000+ handloads thru it. Not 1 malfunction. Then 1 day I got a chance to pickup a LNIB CZ 75 so I did, this was back in the days where getting a cz 75 with no importer marks out of a commie block country rated damn near impossible. This one was legally brought in and I lucked out but got stupid and sold the p-85. I like cz's but a couple months a go when I wanted a new pocket rocket , I had no problem buying a Ruger ec-9 and no reliability problems with it either. What was wrong with the Jericho? Seemed like you were damn proud of it ,why move it you only got one hand or something? Mb Jehrico was a excellent pistol. Just moved it to offset cost of the M70 ZPAP I'm waiting to get. I go thru alot of guns. Have 6 I will wont sell. Core group status guns. All others in a outer orbit type of thing. Its hard to explain why certain guns wont get sold and others get used and get sent down the road. Alot have been project guns also at times. Strike my fancy Grow bored with em. Wheel and deal em away I would have a huge amount of guns ( estimate around 90 to 95) If I never sold or horse traded guns ever and held onto to em all since growing up in Maine. I got 9 guns currently. 6 core group 3 outer orbit hoping to make core group. LOL!
Last edited by renegade50; 09/16/20.
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,795
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,795 |
A thread that knocks Berreta and pumps Ruger? What wrong with discussion? Have you ever used and dealt with a Berreta M9 in just about every enviorment on the planet. It aint pretty...... The open top slide/barrel combo is not soldier friendly. Everything from mud, fine gravel , rain, snow, dried leaves, dirt gets into em. Plus they are loose after about 1k rounds. And if ya get one that hits POA/ POI nicely. Then you was blessed. Kentucky windage drastically with some and others not so much. Kinda like a box of chocolates......... big difference in being "Joe useage proof" versus nice take it out of the safe for range day use in the civilian world. JMO. JME. BS, the Berreta's have passed every MIL spec out there. Your $300.00 cast gun hasn't. I'll keep my Berreta's
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
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Your gunna like that puppy,I sure like my P-90..Built like a tank and has never jammed on me yet and it get's used heavily..Needs a good cleaning but it's a keeper..It's been under the seat/behind the seat and in the UTV bouncing around and never has failed..Finished off a good bull elk also..Can't say enough good on it..It goes everywhere we go..lol ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/3JSbIhX.jpg)
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013 |
A thread that knocks Berreta and pumps Ruger? What wrong with discussion? Have you ever used and dealt with a Berreta M9 in just about every enviorment on the planet. It aint pretty...... The open top slide/barrel combo is not soldier friendly. Everything from mud, fine gravel , rain, snow, dried leaves, dirt gets into em. Plus they are loose after about 1k rounds. And if ya get one that hits POA/ POI nicely. Then you was blessed. Kentucky windage drastically with some and others not so much. Kinda like a box of chocolates......... big difference in being "Joe useage proof" versus nice take it out of the safe for range day use in the civilian world. JMO. JME. BS, the Berreta's have passed every MIL spec out there. Your $300.00 cast gun hasn't. I'll keep my Berreta's Carry one in the middle east deserts and get back with me. Tell me how a sand and fine gravel filled M9 runs. Big difference in testing guns for eval in a set standard versus real world everyday hard use and carry. If schitt aint end user Joe proof then that is the big issue. Not how they passed test at aberdeen and other locations. The P85 and P89 never got submitted for eval. Perhaps you could explain better why the M9,s also got recalled for cracked faces around the firing pin hole within 14 months of them being fielded. Feel free to fact check that..... Sorry you take my post so that it hurts your feelings brand loyalty wise. It is what it is. 1st hand experience world wide over a 24 yr career as a Infantryman Using and dealing with Berreta M9,s aka M92 , m94 platform. Not just me but 10,s of thousands of combat arms types in the military over the M9,s service life had the same opinon. Dont ask the MP at the gate about the one he draws outta the arms room for his shift each day and qualifies on twice a year. Ask the Joe or Marine in a combat arms unit who carried one 24/7 365 on a deployment what he thinks of the pistol. It aint pretty ....... You are 100% correct in the investment cast and milled aluminum alloy frame. Not the 1st pistol on the planet designed that way. It is what it is. A reliable pistol with a enclosed slide and barrel. The open slide and exposed barrel on a M9 is the main problem. Simple as that. I cant say much more based on my experience with the M9. If I somehow brought emotion into this thread. I'm sorry in ways. But not sorry in many ways also. Hope ya see that. JMO JME
Last edited by renegade50; 09/16/20. Reason: Cast frame comnent added, end user comnent added.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013 |
Your gunna like that puppy,I sure like my P-90..Built like a tank and has never jammed on me yet and it get's used heavily..Needs a good cleaning but it's a keeper..It's been under the seat/behind the seat and in the UTV bouncing around and never has failed..Finished off a good bull elk also..Can't say enough good on it..It goes everywhere we go..lol Mecgar mag with poly floor plate?? I need to get on my search at LGS around town.
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,795
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,795 |
A thread that knocks Berreta and pumps Ruger? What wrong with discussion? Have you ever used and dealt with a Berreta M9 in just about every enviorment on the planet. It aint pretty...... The open top slide/barrel combo is not soldier friendly. Everything from mud, fine gravel , rain, snow, dried leaves, dirt gets into em. Plus they are loose after about 1k rounds. And if ya get one that hits POA/ POI nicely. Then you was blessed. Kentucky windage drastically with some and others not so much. Kinda like a box of chocolates......... big difference in being "Joe useage proof" versus nice take it out of the safe for range day use in the civilian world. JMO. JME. BS, the Berreta's have passed every MIL spec out there. Your $300.00 cast gun hasn't. I'll keep my Berreta's Carry one in the middle east deserts and get back with me. Tell me how a sand and fine gravel filled M9 runs. Big difference in testing guns for eval in a set standard versus real world everyday hard use and carry. If schitt aint end user Joe proof then that is the big issue. Not how they passed test at aberdeen and other locations. The P85 and P89 never got submitted for eval. Perhaps you could explain better why the M9,s also got recalled for cracked faces around the firing pin hole within 14 months of them being fielded. Feel free to fact check that..... Sorry you take my post so that it hurts your feelings brand loyalty wise. It is what it is. 1st hand experience world wide over a 24 yr career as a Infantryman Using and dealing with Berreta M9,s aka M92 , m94 platform. Not just me but 10,s of thousands of combat arms types in the military over the M9,s service life had the same opinon. Dont ask the MP at the gate about the one he draws outta the arms room for his shift each day and qualifies on twice a year. Ask the Joe or Marine in a combat arms unit who carried one 24/7 365 on a deployment what he thinks of the pistol. It aint pretty ....... You are 100% correct in the investment cast and milled aluminum alloy frame. Not the 1st pistol on the planet designed that way. It is what it is. A reliable pistol with a enclosed slide and barrel. The open slide and exposed barrel on a M9 is the main problem. Simple as that. I cant say much more based on my experience with the M9. If I somehow brought emotion into this thread. I'm sorry in ways. But not sorry in many ways also. Hope ya see that. JMO JME my guess would be they were running the nato charge in the 92’s. I have pistols that are mil spec and ones that are not. I’ve spent a lot of time tightening up the mil spec pistols. Mil spec isn’t needed or desirable for consumer level.
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,854
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,854 |
Got it rene, sometimes a guy just wants to experience different guns and move on. Mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,013 |
A thread that knocks Berreta and pumps Ruger? What wrong with discussion? Have you ever used and dealt with a Berreta M9 in just about every enviorment on the planet. It aint pretty...... The open top slide/barrel combo is not soldier friendly. Everything from mud, fine gravel , rain, snow, dried leaves, dirt gets into em. Plus they are loose after about 1k rounds. And if ya get one that hits POA/ POI nicely. Then you was blessed. Kentucky windage drastically with some and others not so much. Kinda like a box of chocolates......... big difference in being "Joe useage proof" versus nice take it out of the safe for range day use in the civilian world. JMO. JME. BS, the Berreta's have passed every MIL spec out there. Your $300.00 cast gun hasn't. I'll keep my Berreta's Carry one in the middle east deserts and get back with me. Tell me how a sand and fine gravel filled M9 runs. Big difference in testing guns for eval in a set standard versus real world everyday hard use and carry. If schitt aint end user Joe proof then that is the big issue. Not how they passed test at aberdeen and other locations. The P85 and P89 never got submitted for eval. Perhaps you could explain better why the M9,s also got recalled for cracked faces around the firing pin hole within 14 months of them being fielded. Feel free to fact check that..... Sorry you take my post so that it hurts your feelings brand loyalty wise. It is what it is. 1st hand experience world wide over a 24 yr career as a Infantryman Using and dealing with Berreta M9,s aka M92 , m94 platform. Not just me but 10,s of thousands of combat arms types in the military over the M9,s service life had the same opinon. Dont ask the MP at the gate about the one he draws outta the arms room for his shift each day and qualifies on twice a year. Ask the Joe or Marine in a combat arms unit who carried one 24/7 365 on a deployment what he thinks of the pistol. It aint pretty ....... You are 100% correct in the investment cast and milled aluminum alloy frame. Not the 1st pistol on the planet designed that way. It is what it is. A reliable pistol with a enclosed slide and barrel. The open slide and exposed barrel on a M9 is the main problem. Simple as that. I cant say much more based on my experience with the M9. If I somehow brought emotion into this thread. I'm sorry in ways. But not sorry in many ways also. Hope ya see that. JMO JME my guess would be they were running the nato charge in the 92’s. I have pistols that are mil spec and ones that are not. I’ve spent a lot of time tightening up the mil spec pistols. Mil spec isn’t needed or desirable for consumer level. Standard NATO 124gr Fmj at around 1260 to 1280 was the fodder for em. The issue was supposedly a bad heat treat on runs of em. DOD went with a carte blanche recall on em. It's not uncommon for contractors to cut corners after award of a contract in DOD. Not saying myself other than speculation of that is what happened. But the pistols should not have failed with cracks around the firing pin hole, especially when the NATO spec ammo was being used across the board for all the evaluated pistols and the issue never came up during testing , but did show up after fielding. You gotta remember this was the early and mid 80,s and the age of the 600 dollar hammer and 400 dollar toliet seat in DOD contracting. Anyways..... Got the Hogue grip on . Really good pinky finger purchase on it now. The great search today didnt find any mags in town. Probably gonna get a 17rd Ruger flush fit metal plate on the web. Been looking at those. And 15 rd Ruger/ mecgars are available with the poly floor plate. The Hogue grip feels alot better and strong hand pinky has that angle on the groove to get into with muscle memory now with alot more postive this is your place force. Everytime I take a pic of this, the different light makes it look colored in various different shades. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/KvJM45GL/20200916-164957.jpg)
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,187
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/cL9XZzcW/20200915-175145.jpg) If Ruger didnt step on their crank with the P85 and it's fugged up decocker design on that model . They woulda had the time to submit this model and we wouldnt have had been using fugged up M9 Berreta,s for 20 25 some odd years. I remember being in Germany and we got M9,s in 87. 6 months later 300k recall DOD wide for slides cracking around the firing pin holes. Berreta fugged up the heat treat.... Not too mention a open barrel slide that was loose as fugg. POA/ POI with a M9 even new ones... GLWT.......... This gun is to American "Hood" what Taurus PT92 is to Brasilian Favela, well proven firearm. The P89 series were discontinued because having metal frame they were more costly to manufacture. The only downside from user perspective is the old-fashioned slide mounted safety. The real standout in Ruger line is the SR series pistols.
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