Home Forums Birds & Dogs Waterfowl Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water?

I've been giving some thought to this lately. I, like most, have been told for years that only flying fowl are legitimate to shoot at. I'm starting to question that though. The rationale behind it is mostly one of "fair chase" but shooting birds on the wing results in huge rates of wounded or recovered birds.
This source suggests that rate is as high as 25%, including many that hunters believe they missed cleanly, or that took a stray pellet from a shot that downed another bird. I know most will claim their rates are much lower, but anyone who says they dont lose an occasional duck is a liar. In my view, the ethical imperative is to kill the animal cleanly and with the greatest chance of recovery, not to shoot it in the most challenging way. Wounding and losing a bird seems the greater wrong than shooting a stationary one. That seems to be the case in deer and Turkey hunting, where shooting a moving target is more frowned upon.

As a side benefit, the breasts and legs are below the water line, and dont get nearly as much shot damage as a bird shot on the wing.

I realize that ricochet risk is a very real safety concern in some areas, but where it isn't, why shouldn't one shoot sitting ducks?

popcorn in 5,4,3,2,.........

HAHA

All I can offer up is this and it is merely my opinion.

If it is a legal means of hunting than have at it. Hunting high fence is legal, but it ain't for me. Shooting a duck on the water is like shooting an elk tied to the hitching post. I believe that any animal I hunt has to have every means and ability it knows and has to evade me and my choice of weapon. In the case of Waterfowl and Upland birds flight is one if not it's best abilities. I can live with a few lost animals here and there, it's going to happen. That is why it's called hunting and not killing.

I have sometimes had the same question. If a man can sneak through an eastern Carolina swamp and get close enough to bushwack a duck, especially a wood duck, on the water, he has earned that duck. Of course, if he can do that and then flush and shoot the duck, he has earned it more. Likewise for someone in a boat. If you are good enough to paddle a boat into shotgun range of one, you've earned the shot. Up to you whether to take it on the water or on the wing.

I somehow don't feel the same way about shooting one on the water in the decoys, or one that has just happened to simply swim by or set down on the water in gun range.

It's a sporting thing. Same as ground swatting a pheasant or shooting a grouse out of a tree. Nothing illegal about it, just not sporting.
But another reason it's bad form to shoot a duck in the water is because there usually is a couple hundred dollars worth of decoys around and it sucks ventilating them.

I have no problem popping a grouse out of a tree with my 22 pistol while running my trapline for the pot that night back at the tent. Never would dream of doing it while hunting grouse with my shotgun. I guess it is a difference between need and ethics, a steady diet of beaver and muskrat gets old, grouse is a nice change of pace. The only ducks that get shot on the water are cripple's, shooting one on the water will get you a ride back to the landing if your hunting with me. But so will blasting away at birds that aren't in range. My motto for duck hunting "Kill the birds you KNOW you can kill, pass on the birds you HOPE you can kill"

Probably left over from the days of market hunters and punt guns.

If you can 't hit them on the wing stay at home and do what your wife tells you too. MB

i am fairly new to waterfowl hunting though i have been hunting for 60 years. seems to me if one were to be shooting ducks or geese or grouse,for that matter, strictly for food, there would be nothing wrong with ground/water sluising (sp). but for me the ability to knock a bird out of the sky is where the satisfaction lays. if i wanted to shoot a stationary bird i would use a 22 magnum of 17hmr. just my feel for it. i will judge no man on how he gets his meat as long as it is legal. back to grouse though i have and will continue to use anything at hand when i get a chance at potting one for supper. including a 44 mag ruger!

You should first start by shooting your deeks. If that doesn’t cure you of sluicing, nothing will.

😎

I will Arkansas a duck in a heart beat..

Been sluicing ducks in my spread of corks and foamers for years and never had an issue. Are you hunting over plastic?

I used to do a lot of field goose hunting. Lost my access. Areas are now closed to hunting because of development. I am not ashamed to say I ground pounded my fair share of geese. I did not decoy them in and wait for them to land. It was spot and stalk jump shooting. Limit was anywhere from three to five. First one or two may have been on the ground as the flock was making their exit. Any others were no different than shooting decoying birds.I got a lot of crap for this. I didn't care.

It is okay to call in a single turkey who is fixated on a decoy when he is all stupid thinking he's going get some and ground pound him. Yet sneaking in on a group of a couple dozen geese,who are all keyed up looking for trouble, and getting close enough for a shot when your doing all the moving is considered unsporting. Makes no sense to me.

There were many times that I would make a move on geese that would require nearly a mile of walking to get in position, only to get busted fifty yards from being in range. I was probably successful of getting a shot about half the time.

What's the shot opportunity on decoying birds??? A whole hell of lot higher than 50/50. If your any good with a shotgun your hit ratio ain't much different than ground swatting.

I am also a proud road hunting ground swatter of ruffed grouse. Sorry they just taste to damn good to give them any kind of chance. If it was legal I would have a dedicated 17 HMR grouse sniper rifle.

I might of crossed the line with pheasants one time. In my defense I am certain they would of meet their demise as soon as the local coyotes made his rounds. Driving a gravel road I had a cock come flopping across the road in front of me. Looked as if he got hit by a car. I stopped and got out with my shotgun. You can shoot from gravel in my state. Figured just in case he had some life in him for one last flight I would pop him. Well turns out he was not alone he had a couple buddies,that were also flopping around and making on to some brush and falling to the ground.

Well I ain't going to pass up a easy limit of tasty birds. I figured they were scratching gravel and all got plowed at the same time. Some lightweight loads made quick work of them. Got them homed and cleaned them. Figured I would have bruised meat to trim off. They were perfect I administered clean head shots.

Turns out their crops were absolutely stuffed with grapes. This was well past the end of grape season, so any grapes were on the vine fro quite some time. So I figure those birds were just drunk off their ass.

This one of those things in life , that if you have to ask the question , you likely won't ever understand the answer.

Man I wish we were in person having this discussion so when I asked the following question I could watch the reactions!

How many of you have ever shot a Coot?



Uh huh. Bunch of soapbox standing liars.

I've shot a bunch of coots usually jump shoot them from the front of the canoe. We flush them and shoot them on the wing although their feet might still be running on the water, but they arent swimming

???? Are you going to shoot that coot while it's swimming?? Hell No!! I"m going to wait till it stops , can't hit it when it's moving.

Rio7

I use to shoot coots but now that steel shotshells are so expensive I don't. I'm not spending $1.25 to kill a F'ing coot.
Now a F'ing merganser is another story..

It's not an ethical question, it's one of preference.

And yeah, if I've convinced them to give it up and sit in my decoys, I've won the game. The shooting at that point doesn't matter.

I haven't hunted geese or ducks in quite a while. But back in my younger years we used to hunt them a lot. It's illegal to shoot them on the water here, but I've shot wounded birds on the water. The other issue I'd have with that is hitting the decoys. I was doing a lot of waterfowl hunting when they made lead shot illegal. I think we had a lot more wounded birds using steel. I've never used Hevi-shot.

An acquaintance use to say, he would rather have a sister that worked in a whorehouse than a brother that shot Squirrels with a shotgun...Shooting Ducks on the water is much the same....

As the Fish and Wildlife Service is silent on the matter, it is a state decision as to whether the practice of shooting waterfowl on the water is legal or not.

The early game laws, especially waterfowl, were based on rules adopted from the more prominent duck hunting clubs of that state. Some clubs condemned such practices while others were silent or it was condoned under certain conditions. This is a significant factor to the hodgepodge of legalities on the matter.

As for ethics, I am not a fan of shooting ducks and geese off the water. It has more to do with the difficulty of killing them rather than the ethics of merely shooting them while sitting. A duck or goose sitting on the water has much of its vitals covered with multiple layers of feathers and bone which makes it difficult for pellets to penetrate. Hitting the head/neck is possible but is also difficult as larger pellets often lack the pattern density to hit such a small target while smaller pellets may run out of energy to consistently complete the task at moderate to long ranges.

Ive been on both side of the issue over the years and at different times in my life. I've based the above opinion on the numerous times I have sculler for ducks and geese, a few times where I shot them sitting whether on land or water, and the times I've had to finish off a cripple. I just prefer to shoot them flying as the vitals are more exposed than when sitting on the land or water. I also tend to find waterfowl are less bunched when in the air which makes for fewer "Dutch doubles". This is especially true when sculling as the birds tend to crowd together when they become concerned by the object drifting up to them. It is a trait market Hunter's took advantage of as it maximized the number of birds bagged with one shot.

Though I have a personal ethical issue towards shooting sitting waterfowl, I don't begrudge others for doing so if it is legal and safe. For some that is the most ethical means of shooting as their wing shooting skills are rather poor. For the often limited times they get out and the even lower percentage of success, I don't see them having much of an impact.

If the hunting is slow, then i will shoot a few on the water to make sure i come back with something, as it is tradition for us to cook a duck gumbo every saturday night at the camp during the season with whatever we have killed so far. But if they are fogging in on me pretty good i shoot them on the wing.

I can't imagine there are many slow days anywhere around Houma to Morgan City. I have hunted a bit between Morgan City and Lafayette. My favorite being white Lake, I have never had a slow day on White Lake.

We shoot the hell out of mud hens always flying

There are states where it is a game law violation to shoot ducks on the water?

Hahaha. That's a good one.

Thank you all for your replies. The experience that prompted the question was one from my early teens. The first duck i ever shot. I don't come from a duck hunting family and never had access to decoys or a dog. My best bet was jump shooting off the small creeks outside town. It was basically a spot and stalk situation where I spot the ducks from the ridge and sneak down into the creek bottom.

I learned quickly that ducks are not stupid and are very difficult to sneak up on within shotgun range. After MANY unsuccessful attempts, I finally got within range of a big Drake mallard. I remember a couple of seconds of watching him on the water 20 yards away with a clear shot. I didn't shoot because I was always taught that shooting one on the water is a cardinal sin. I let him fly and my first shot knocked him down to the water, but he still had life left. He crawled into a thick mat of cattails. I searched for hours and never found him. For me, losing that bird was much less palatable than breaking some ethical taboo.

I think jump-shooting is a different game than shooting over decoys with longer shots and less reaction time.

So what you are essentially saying is you screwed up the shot on an approximately 20 yard opportunity....and therefore to make it easier you should shoot them on the water....All wrapped up in the argument of it made you feel bad....along with putting the sneak on a Duck is difficult....

Perhaps you would be better off to propose being allowed to shoot them on the water with a .22lr? M80 would work if you had a good and accurate throwing arm...

As mentioned a Duck on the water is far from a given when the majority of its vitals are underwater.

Which is why a well-trained retriever is one of the greatest conservation tools we have at our disposal.

Yep. That about sums it up. I messed up an easy shot and lost a duck. No one to blame but me.

To be clear though, I'm not condemning wingshooting, or advocating for shooting them on the water. I'm just interested in the different balance of fair chase vs clean kill for birds than big game or turkeys. Deer also have a better chance to escape if you shoot at them on the run, but it's considered unethical for obvious reasons. We prioritize clean kill and recovery over maximizing "fair chase." With birds, the hunting community begrudgingly accepts a much higher wound/loss rate in the name of fair chase (25% in that study). I know no one else here has EVER wounded or lost one, but the general public apparently isn't up to the 24hourcampfire standard.

Good points about more vitals being below that waterline, and about them bunching up on the water.

Some think it unethical to shoot them on the run...Those that grew up doing it don't....

This would be a quote from a Wayne Van Zwoll article on the campfire home page....

"With Nylon 66s, Remington salesman Tom Frye challenged Ad Topperwein’s eye-popping record on tossed 2 ¼-inch wooden blocks. During a marathon session in San Antonio in 1907, Ad had wearied several Winchester 1903s firing at 72,500 blocks. He’d drilled 71,491, including a run of 14,500 straight! Unintimidated, Frye passed the 43,725 mark with just two misses. He stopped at 100,010, having splintered all but six." Think it would be unethical for him to shoot at a running Deer?

Have we regressed as shooters while constantly being reminded of clean kill. What is a clean kill??? Instantaneous, 5 seconds, 30, a minute?

I break a win on a Grouse and the Dog brings it back....at which time I have to kill it with my hands...Could be over real quick, but it wasn't clean....

I find none of it clean....You start blowing animals apart, it is all messy....

We all shoot at enough game and we all will eventually mess up a shot...

That pretty much sums up my feelings on both issues. If one is so desperate to "get" something that they have to shoot ducks on the water or squirrels with a shotgun their life is lacking something and I don't think they'd understand. It's not my place to condemn them for it, but I do feel a little sorry for them.

Yep.

That is the trouble right there with the hunting community's idea of "WE HAVE TO GET MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED!" They go out and beg people to guns who really don't have a clue or a care about any thing about the sports. As a result you get green ass dip wads shooting turkeys off the limb, ducks in the water, sitting rabbits, fish, I'm just waiting for the "Can I shoot fish in a barrel?"

Believe it or not there has been lately...i guess it cant always be good lol. I have never hunted over that way, i have hunted in cameron once a couple years ago. We do our hunting on point au fer island south of morgan city.

Well there you go, when it comes to Turkeys I can be a dip wad...

I’ve shot them called spring and fall, when I just happened to cross paths with them, when the Dog flushed one out while Grouse hunting, on the ground and flying. With a shotgun and have tried with a .223. I’ve yet to shoot one off a limb. However, most likely I wouldn’t pass on it.

I have, and will continue to do the same. Any bird for that matter, upland or waterfowl. Count me in if it's the only opportunity I think I am to get and I don't give a damn if someone else calls it "unsporting". The OP is right that it is often more ethical to do so, from a % recovery standpoint. It is especially funny to hear people bitch about long range or running shots on big game being "bad" and unethical due to a higher chance of wounding (shooting from out of range of their senses is a different discussion), when in the same conversation they bitch about anyone not shooting birds on the wing, especially upland birds. Waterfowl do seem to soak up pellets easier when shot on the water, but I've also seen plenty take pellets in the air and keep on flying.

In my experience a lot of the stuck up, hi-falutin, proper and refined hunters are the same guys who prefer to hunt deer and elk in the rut because they're so much easier to find. I've seen a lot of those same stuck up guys go on big "hikes" when hunting because they're "proper" hunters, and those hikes end up being less than a mile or so. It's laughable, at best.

Shooting turkeys in that tiny, constantly moving head with a rifle at 200 yards, vs 20 yards with a shotgun? Call the former shooting and not hunting if it makes a guy feel better, but both have their challenges. I've even body shot turkeys with a rifle and had no regret, though I do prefer a headshot when possible for the saving meat.

I am unashamed to do what I have to do to be successful, assuming it's both legal and safe and I sure as hell won't apologize for it.

If you were to do this though, pellets only to the head and back would mean no pellets in the breast and legs, which means less trimming, ruined meat and chances of chomping down on a pellet. In some cases it could mean saving an entire side of the breast meat. I am sure we've all played that game with flying birds.


There's lots of different ways to look at ethics.

Heck Yeah! I shoot as many as I legally can every year. I have an appetizer recipe that people rave about in which I utilize coots, rails, snipe, starlings, and other so called "trash" birds. I used to use crows too but concerns with West Nile Virus by others has ended that practice.

My favorite coot spot is a 40' swath of land between two ponds. Coots trade between the two all day long and it is the only place I have seen coots truly flying of their own volition. The first time I saw them I didn't know what they were but as the sun rose I got a better look.

I jump shoot a fair number of them too, I am not picky on how I take them. The funny aspect of coots and my dogs is, as a whole, my versatile breeds have disliked retrieving them more than the setters and Pointer I've owned. One would think it being the other way around.

Again, it's not an ethical question, it's one of preference.

I still can't believe someone is convinced there are state game laws prohibiting shooting ducks on the water.

Yeah, I left that one alone.

No laws, just common sense. Its just all about what ever you feel your honor is worth. Its not a big deal any more. lots of people have no honor at all.

Common sense? What do you mean by that?
Is it common sense that an ethical hunter shouldn't sluice ducks?

I disagree, if that's what you're getting at and I see no lack of honor on a hunter's part if they choose to do that.

Dang, I’m dishonorable!

I’d rather hunt with Tinman and Mike7mm08, they won’t judge me like most here. I need to quit visiting the bird hunting forums, I get tired of the smug condescending attitudes towards people that don’t hunt properly enough. Oh well

Yep a lot of bird hunters are people I would rather not associate with. Not all but most I have meet will fairly quickly have you wanting to smack them up side the the head.

I am more of a fisherman than a hunter. In fishing we have fly fisherman to take the place of bird hunters. In fact a lot partake in both pursuits. Those are some real condescending jackasses. Can about make them cry if you show them a limit of trout you kept that were caught on worms along with the limit of grouse you roadswatted on your way from the stream.

I love for them all to flush, fly, and be shot on the wing. However, some are obviously democrats, and it’d be discriminatory of me to not offer them encouragement.

I recently helped my nephew shoot his first cottontail. He shot it with a 20 gauge at close range while it was stationary. He sure grinned big. Then he cleaned it himself, wrapped in foil, cooked it in coals of our campfire, and then picked it clean.

If shooting squirrels with a shotgun is worse then being a whore, and shooting ducks on the water is dishonorable, and rifle shooting turkeys is bad, then where does shot gunning stationary rabbits stand? hahaha, I guess people like feeling superior than others about anything, why not hunting too?

I think it’s a good idea to create such division among hunters. I mean, this way the anti-hunting brigade has to look really long and hard to find statements made by hunters calling a certain type of hunting dishonorable and unethical.

I can hear it now, “Even outdoorsmen state that shooting turkeys with a rifle is dishonorable, shooting ducks on the water is unethical, and shooting squirrels with a shotgun is considered to be a less desirable personality trait than promiscuity; therefore, we motion to make all of the aforementioned illegal henceforth.”

Then you soapbox gents wouldn’t have a leg to stand on, you’d be feeding them exactly what they want and your statements could be instrumental in a restriction of hunting RIGHTS.

Remember, just because it isn’t your cup of tea doesn’t mean it’s unethical, immoral, or dishonorable. If someone is acting within the confines of the written law, you should applaud him for being out and contributing dollars to conservation. If you don’t agree with it, keep it to yourself so your words aren’t used against you.

United we stand, divided we fall.

LOl. Ive fly fished over 40 years and a lot of pretentious a holes. Ill shoot ducks on the water just taking off when I jump shoot ponds, cricks with the dog. Typically no on dekes though.

The OP asked a question, which leaves the discussion open for different thoughts on the "Ethical Question".

So we get some who agree and others who don't. I throw in something humorous about anothers thoughts on the question...And we all laughed at his whore house statement, even though we knew he thought Squirrels should be hunted with a .22LR. It was little more than a humorous way to express his opinion and we knew that. Nor was he one that it would be wise to smack upside the head.

Opinions go back and forth, but soon we have the BAMF's come out and tell us how they would rather not associate with a lot of bird hunters...as if they would without any reservation want to hunt with him...and want to smack them upside the head.
Well as mentioned above, there are some boys out there who prefer to shoot Birds on the fly, that it would be wise to leave your desire limited to want. Most just wouldn't hunt with them again and leave it at that. Start BAMF smacking, and at minimum you may find your shotgun broken in two. But hey, I guess they are condescending jackasses for having a different opinion...

Then another thinks those who reply to the OP's question, with a view that doesn't agree with theirs will give the anti-hunting crowd the needed facts to make the "aforementioned illegal henceforth''. Yep, that is what will bring us down..Hilarious..

Now as far as feeling superior and rabbits...I shot my first rabbit under the lights of an Uncles Cadillac. While straddling the Longhorn Steer horns that were on the hood..it was stationary and probably blinded by the lights...If one wants to make the case of legal vs illegal they have a valid argument...However, when I got to hunt them over a neighbors pack of Beagles and took them on the run it was more fun and rewarding... Shoot my first Pheasant on the ground also.....but then Bird Dogs came into my life and things changed again...

Respectfully yours, a condescending jackass....

Addition: I think Rick should make a BAMF forum.... a place all the BAMF’s could hang out and talk BAS.

And....in my county, we have to use a shotgun on squirrels.

A BA forum? I thought that’s what the bird forums were? Hahaha.

What’s my view, then? My point is only that if we go around calling styles of hunting unethical and dishonorable, it won’t be long before those words are used against us. To what extent is unknown, but there have already been examples of statements made on forums being used by anti-hunters to attempt to change trapping laws. Will that be the limit? I doubt it.

Also, I nominate you as the BA forum’s moderator. Takes the most supreme of leaders, think North Korea style, to get on here and talk schit to the BAMF’s so you’re clearly an echelon above BA, like a SBAMF.

Hilarious....and not in a good way....x2....

Wrong again....haha????

The SBAMF has spoken.

Maybe we could all chill out a bit and sing a round of Kumbaya? Haha. I think we could all agree that (so long as it’s legal) to each their own. And we all have our own hunting styles, and interests, and opinions. I do appreciate that the campfire here allows us all to share these freely, it’s a unique place.

I actually have a wing shooting goal this year, I’ve only killed a few Mearns quail, all stationary with a bow. So I’d like to flush and shotgun a few, and I found some good mearns quail country this summer.

I don't think messing with Battue in his younger days would have been a wise choice. He isn't a mountain of a man, more like that little Bronc rider that you knew could take more than you could put out. But I also have a feeling he was the bigger man in his youth as well, and was able to walk away. You aren't going to make it through the schooling and a career that he has being a Hot Head. I have known Battue for a few years now and one thing I can say for certain is he has a heart of gold. Another is he has hunted more then a lot of us have. He may not be that guy to throw up pictures all the time, but I can assure you he has killed more than his fair share of both Small Game and Big Game. It's funny a guy voices his opinion and he is a BA. Only on the interweb, this chit cracks me up.

To be fair MCH, the “BA” was his idea.

Ethics conversations never turn out well, I’m sorry that he took it so personal, he’s not the only wing shooter here that Has strong opinions about proper ways to hunt.

Reread what he wrote! HE ADMITS to doing pretty much all that was mentioned. He found his way of hunting and it works for him. He didn't condemn anyone or anyway of legally hunting.

He stated that some guys you just aren't going to slap up side the head! That is a fact of life there are some guys you just aren't going to smack up side the head. Matter of fact I don't care who you are or who the other guy is, in todays world truth be told ain't nobody smacking anyone else up side the head. But this is the interweb and well words are just easy to say.

Thanks for the kind words.

As usual you get it.

Geez MCH, reread everything I wrote. I never mentioned slapping anybody. And the one poster who did used it as a figure of speech. Chill out man!

And Battue was quite snarky to the OP, about losing the duck and hence his ethics question. I’m sure I read Battue wrong but this isn’t the first time I’ve seen him be kinda rude about wingshooting. But it’s still a matter of opinion, we all have them.

And Battue, I apologize for pushing your buttons. I love to hunt but I’m far from an accomplished wingshooter. I’m sure I’d understand your point of view better, having experienced hunt over good dogs etc. good luck this fall,

I read everything you wrote! My comment was not aimed at you, so you may want to be the one to lighten up. You just happened to be the one that responded to my post.

You quoted me in your post, and Then referred to “some of you guys”. You can see why that’s confusing then right?

NO I did not quote you in my initial response. Then you responded to my response and YES I quoted your response. There is nothing confusing about it.

Okay dude, you win 👍

It isn't about winning. You said Battue brought up the BA. Which you are correct he did. I merely stated that there are guys that any of us just don't slap up side the head. And also the fact that we live in a society that well nobody is slapping anyone else. It was not aimed at you directly. Slap someone today and you are going to be arrested. This isn't the good old days when men could hash out their differences and then go on about their business.

Sadly the days of men being men have come and gone.

I hope that clarifies things for you.

Yes sir, and I agree.

And as wonderful as the internet is, it’s not as good as in person, never will be.

Yes, I have two daughters, and I’d like them to find a good man (real man) when they’re older. It’s not going to be easy to find, gotta look in the “1800’s section” is what my wife says. Grin.

For me, it would come down to why you're hunting ducks. If you need the meat and are not a good wingshot, then I have no big problem with shooting them on the water, but just know that they can be hard to kill on the water too and you can still lose birds. BUT, for those who hunt for fun and sport, a big part of the challenge is learning to shoot them on the wing. The first time I took my son duck hunting on the river behind our house. A Woodie came in and hit the water. He looked at me and said, "Can I". He was just 12 and not a good wing shooter and I wanted him to have some success and to have him watch our Lab make a retrieve. So I said, "Just this once." He nodded and got it and I gave our Lab (my son's birthday present) the command "Sam, back!" and he made a nice retrieve.

Another quick story. My sister was a skeet shooter and fairly decent one. One time she was hunting with her then husband and one of his friends when a duck swam into their decoy set. Her husband's friend said, "There's one for ya Cathy." She stood up in the blind and yelled "Pull" . The duck took flight and she dropped it.

Good thoughts Cooper

No apologies required. If some think bringing up the obvious points re: the OP’s ethics question is being snarky then I’m guilty. However in the world I hang, the same reasoning would have me being the brunt of some serious jagging.

MCH would know what I’m referring to:
“Hey Dan, I blew that 20 yard shot, can I shoot the next one on the water?” “Oh sure, go right ahead. Go right ahead [bleep]. . Just give me time to record it on the phone for all to see.” I’m sure his tone may be snarky.

Fair enough Battue. Good luck in the hills this fall everyone.

now that woman has CLASS!

Yes she does! She's very talented at just everything she does. A very classy and capable woman.

This thread is internet gold.

Thanks for the entertainment!

As a teen, I jump shot ducks off the farm ponds. I had no retriever, no decoys, and no waders. I wore bread bags over wool socks with high top tenny-sneakers. I quickly learned its difficult to kill a duck on the water, so much of it's vitals are below the surface. Better to wait until it's in the air and preferably until it will fall on dry land.

Yes, I hunted squirrels with a shotgun.
The Corps of Engineers did not allow hunting with anything else.

Now I shoot birds on the wing and squirrels with a flintlock. It's more fun that way.

I see this was brought to the top.....and I guess that while my work computer reboots I'll add another dimension to all of this:

Aside from the other ethics issues above, the topic of jump shooting ducks is always a fun one. Trying to sneak up on a pond with mallards can be quite the challenge...any hint of danger and they're gone. Quickly.
To me, the hunter who can sneak within shotgun range and make a shot on unaware ducks is the better hunter...he who shots them consistently, but only after they flush is the better shooter. This way of thinking is in direct contradiction to those who slam long range deer hunters because "it's called hunting, not shooting".

Thoughts?

I sneak up on ducks all the time. The most effective way to hunt on the Bitterroot River. Once I am up on them in range I stand up let them fly and shoot them. But I don't care how someone else shoots them provided it is a legal way and safe.

I know of a lot of places where shooting ducks on the water could end you up shooting other hunters. Of course that isn't every case but there are many where it becomes a possibility. It is your responsibility to know what is beyond your target.

As far as shooting deer long range, I don't care how you shoot them as long as it is legal and within your own personal range.

The only thing I don't get is the long range archery thing. The whole purpose of archery is to hunt close.

I like a good, healthy discussion such as this, as seeing various points of view is always a good thing.

Good stuff!

When are you coming back to the Valley?

I'll be there the week before, and of, Thanksgiving.

Sounds good!

I hunt over decoys. In my experience, ducks fold up when they are hit cupped and committed.

If we have ducks in the decoys we generally let them sit to attract more ducks.

But if someone shoots, it's ok with me. As long as they are shooting at ducks. But if they shoot a merganser...we ride them hard...just because.

Well, it's settled then.

I'm glad opener is around the corner. My dog needs some real work. This practice stuff sucks for the both of us.

I might not even take my scatter guns for the opener. Just bring the dog and let every one else pound away. On the water, or on the wing...just give us some live action.

I followed waterfowl forums for many years before becoming more interested in big game.
Of the controversial topics discussed skillet shots or water swatting was really not the most prominent ethical topic discussed.
I considered posting each of these as a separate topic -

- Is using a 10ga cheating?
- Are 3.5 in shells ethical? (the idea being that they cause crippling due to added recoil)
- Busting a roost? Should you just walk away instead?
- Should you stop pursuing a covey after you have taken several quail from it?
- Turkeys with a rifle? or grouse with a handgun?
- Decoy hunters distain for jump shooters.

I liked what 7mm08 posted about comparisons to fishermen.
Personally we find blue grouse in heavy black timber. If we refuse to shoot them on the ground or from a perch there will be no shot opportunities.
Final thought. If you are going to put the effort into stalking waterfowl on water switch to large shot size.

I used to hunt quail with pointers and Brittany's. And I hunted the same fields year after year. I always left at least ten birds in the coveys. It likely didn't matter, but my thinking is quail are not migratory. Leave some breading stock for next year.

Turkey with a rifle? OK if you are on private property and know where other hunters are. I don't think it's as much fun as calling them into flintlock smoothbore range. I would never hunt spring turkey on public land if rifles were allowed.

Personally, I don't care what you shoot or how you shoot it as long as it's safe and legal. Same for fishing, be safe, be legal, and enjoy it! That's the entire point.

East Tn doesn’t have many ducks, and I honestly am not much of a duck hunter. Have good friends who love it and I’ll tag along occasionally.

While I respect people’s opinions on the question for sure

I’ll absolutely swat one on the water. No qualms with it at all. I came to kill birds to eat, and plan to do just that. So long as it’s safe

How about hunting Quail with a good Bird Dog and seeing a covey on the ground and lining up a couple and swatting them....As long as it is safe....

And back in the market hunting days they swatted a hundred rafted Ducks at a time with punt guns....So some may say there is precedent....It was legal and safe back then....

My thoughts are this thread evidences a generational shift in how we look at taking game...Like many situations today, attitudes and norms have changed...some for the better and others not so much.....

I can tell you this, re the above Quail scenario, do the same on any of the Plantations or good Commercial Quail operations down south, and there is a good chance you will not be asked to return...And a better than even chance told not to do it a second time or make up your mind and leave now....fortunately there still are places where traditions run deep.....Myself, I don't see why any would differentiate between Waterfowl and Quail.... as long as it is safe....

Addition: In many States it is illegal to shoot Deer while they are swimming....If they are only standing in water it is legal.....Why can't you shoot Deer swimming when it is OK for Ducks?.....They are both something to kill and eat....addition again.....To a good shooter, a Deer slurping up the corn has as much chance as one swimming...some are even pavloved to the timer....I always have said food plots and feeders are the modern day equivalent of the olden days ring of fire....

I've shot more than a few quail as they ran ahead of the dogs, and plenty more on the ground without dogs. I am sure I'll do it again without regret, remorse or guilt. If I got booted from a plantation for doing so, I'd consider it a blessing as I don't need to associate with with plantations, nor those type of judgmental people anyhow. As long as that rule is/was disclosed before the hunt, I'd have no issue with it, but I would turn down the opportunity to hunt. It'd be win/win, for me at least.

As far as food plots and feeders.....how about fall bears in a berry patch? I've shot a couple of bears over the years as they gorged themselves on what I believe was the only patch in an entire drainage....so it may as well have been a feeder, but it's a technique often embraced and suggested by hunters, and very often even game departments. Same with deer/elk/moose gut piles and carcass'. What about antelope over a water hole in an otherwise dry area? That's a perfectly acceptable way of hunting them, and may as well be a feeder.

Good conversation we have here!

To my way of thinking, it's really not a question of ethics as much as a matter of practicalities.

1. It's easier to kill them when their wings are set and vitals are exposed.

2. You've got less chance shooting up the decoys when the ducks are in the air.

3. Live ducks make very realistic decoys.

4. If one needs motivation to pay attention, not shooting them in the decoys can serve as penance for not seeing them come in.

None of this should suggest shooting ducks in the decoys is wrong.

And I can't disagree with anything you say....Just adding food for thought....Although the "as long as it's safe" comments are interesting....Well yea, no shiiit!!!!!

I often hunt Deer in a woods of around 1200 acres that on two sides is bordered by farmer corn....Been a long time since I didn't find corn in one....even in years like this one when acorns are everywhere....and a early morning smart place to spend some time, is to catch them leaving the fields to go to cover. I've shot Grouse while driving on a woods road to a different spot, and saw them sitting on a log in the woods, stopped and let the Dog work it and then shot it on the fly....Some diehards would call it unethical. We all have standards that someone higher on the purist scale would say doesn't live up to theirs...

Addition: The Game Commission here now plants fields on Game Lands. They timber the same to not only generate cash, but by doing so also create "food plots" with new emergent growth....

Ever shoot a bedded deer?

Yes here....

That could be argued to be as humane as any other as a bedded deer or bull elk most likely will not move laterally significantly at the shot as a standing or moving one might; additionally, it would seem to express the animal’s calmness. Certainly, it could move to stand up.

I haven’t but Assuming equal conditions, I would.

George,
There are many experienced hunters that advise against it. Especially with distance, in that it is easy to hit something you don’t see in front of the animal.

When I did it the Deer was really close. Like 3 or 4 big steps.

Sure; opinions vary; often, it’s also the writing of it on a site that one tends to minimize, assuming that others are filling in the blanks as you go. But, it’s never safe to assume. 😉

I can still picture several white tails and a couple of bull elk bedded in snow that I’ve snuck up in in my traditional bowyer and early days. Heads at 90* to my path, so broadside like in the pic. Like a standing broadside shot accept legs tucked underneath. No intervening brush. A chip shot with a rifle at whatever distance one was comfortable taking if it was standing still..

Myself, I would not hesitate — after some fifty + deer and elk with both bow and gun — provided all my requirements for an ethical shot could be met.

For example, my last step alerted this calf. But even if not alerted, no shot to your point (for me anyway with a bow) because of that little branch hanging down over the chest. But if she had been a bull, more in the open, and not aware of my presence, he’d be in trouble city. Especially with a rifle.

Correct, but George's point about the animal not possibly moving forwards or backwards, nor side to side (only up and down and that's generally a slower movement) and how that could been seen as a more ethical shot---stands to reason. I'd also argue that there could always be unseen brush in front of animals, whether they're bedded or not.

I have shot one bedded 4x4 mule deer buck at 350 yards and a mature cow elk at about the same distance. Both clear of branches and grass, and both times my bullet hit front ankles, travelled through and into more important parts of the critter. The up/down angle could have been a factor in hitting the ankles. I am not too sure, but either way I wasn't too impressed as both bullets veered off path and were tumbling after hitting the ankle (or wrist, if you will) bones. I'd do it again though, in the right situation, as it worked.