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Notice those low recoil, short action shooters,(308) got off a followup shot more often before the animal went down. 1.7 compared to 1.5. Could this be what shortened the distance traveled? Still can't get the warm fuzzy for the .308...


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Great Post Henrik! Very informative.

What kind of Knives to the Swedes tend to use?................DJ


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Thank you all for the extremely generous welcoming! smile


I should do my very best to contribute to this forum to the best of my ability. Over the years that I have been reading what American writers have written and also what have been written on different forums on the Internet. I have learned a great deal from that but I have also come to understand that the way we hunt and how we reason differs a lot from hunters in different parts of the world, if we are to learn from each other we need to keep an open mind. If I in any way can contribute to that I will be very proud.

There are a lot of different aspects to how we in Sweden (and Scandinavia) choose the chambering of our guns. One thing that has become obvious is that we put less emphasis on speed then what you do in America, in my opinion there are several reasons for this but that should be a subject for another post.

I should comment a bit on the surveys and some recent trends.
First you need to understand that the subject of both surveys is our Swedish moose hunt. Annually we shoot about 100 000 mooses in Sweden and there�s about 300 000 registered hunters here. 6.5x55 is the least powerful cartridge that�s allowed for moose hunting as well as most other big game hunting (the exception being roedeer, the smallest and also most common deer in Sweden which can be taken with rounds as gentle as 222 rem). The average shooting distance is less than 100m (probably between 60-80m) and we normally hunt moose together in hunting parties where the elder and more experienced tend to influence the younger hunters a lot. So as a collective we are less prone to follow the newest trends even though there are obviously exceptions to this. Some of my older fellow hunters still consider the 308 win a novelty that has not yet proven itself crazy (even though it has been our service cartridge for more than 40 years).


Another thing to take into consideration is that it is more or less mandatory to practice on our running moose, which is shoot at 80m going 6m/s (or 18 fps). A lot of our hunting parties train together both as a social event and to make sure that everyone is up to par. In order to do that a lot of the training facilities require that you use FMJ as softpoints may fragment and damage the acoustic targets that are getting more common every year now. For this reason Norma has always marketed a budget line of ammunition with FMJ�s in the most common chambering in boxes of 50 cartridges. This has had a great impact on what chambering the new hunters chooses as well, the difference could easily be 2 $ per cartridge compared to ordinary hunting ammunition so if you shoot a couple of hundred shots during practice every year you will notice the difference.

Regarding the 6.5x55 and its recent drop in popularity there�s two main reasons for this, the first is legislation and our politicians. There has been legislation suggested that will ban all lead from hunting ammunition in Sweden (this includes rifle ammunition) in effect if that legislation was passed by parliament (at the moment it looks like that won�t happen) 6.5x55 will not be allowed for big game hunting due to the technical requirements. So there has been an insecurity regarding the future of 6.5x55 as a big game round.

The other reason is that the wild boars are getting more common every year and whereas 6.5x55 was judged as appropriate for mooses in most hunters view it lacks some power to effectively take a big boar (the kind that everyone dreams of both very few has actually seen). Instead we see a resurrection in chambering like 8x57, 9.3x62 and 9.3x74R.

When Swedish hunters wants to improve the power of their chambering they will look to upgrade in bullet weight and caliber but usually not in speed.
Usually we talk about two main powerlevels of big game cartridges here in Sweden, the first one are the normal big game cartridges such as 6.5x55, 308win and 30-06 which are considered by most experienced hunters as acceptable and the differences are more with the type of gun that you prefer then with the chambering itself. A lot of hunters nowadays want a more powerful rifle to complement to the former group. They will usually look as something like 358 Norma, the different 9.3�s or a 375 H&H but some will end up choosing something in between such as 8x57 or a 338 Win.

I have tried to keep this as objective as possible without trying to promote my own choices as I�m a rifle loony and not representative of the average hunter in any way.
A part from the discussion above hunting in Sweden is different in a lot ways. There�s almost no public land instead we lease hunting areas from the landowners, usually long time leases of at least five years. Most hunting in Sweden is conducting in hunting teams and we use dogs in a lot of different ways both before and after the shot. The meat hunters are in absolute majority and trophy hunters are not that common. There�s a lot of pressure not to wound any game that you don�t get and if you act irresponsible such as taking to big risks or shooting at game at ranges that you does not master you might find out that you are not welcome anymore.

Best Regards,
Henrik

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I should try and answer some of the specific questions that you have asked.
Even though I'm a great fan of the 308win (after all I have trained at lot of soldiers in the use of that chambering ;)) the results of the surveys does not support the statement that the 308 win beats the 30-06 and 6.5x55 in average shots required as well as distance travelled. Actually both the surveys give the 308 an edge in distance traveled but it required a few more shots to get that edge.

Regarding the 358 Norma, that's a chambering that I have used in the past and one that I reckon to be a extremly effective chambering for big game. Unfortunately it has not been loaded with premium bullets in the factory offering until the last years and the poor performance of the factory loading has lead to the current situation where the 358 Norma mag is more or less a handloaders cartridge.

Knifes carried by Swedish hunters is a subject of its own but generally hunters here prefer a droppoint knife a la Loveless with a blade that's 3-4 inches.

About my english I have got some opportunity to train it both as an officer working together with english speaking colleagues and in recent years in my civilian career in international business. All Swedish kids learns english in school and most also learns a third language (german, french or spanish being the most popular).

Best Regards,
Henrik

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In Finland by far the most popular all-round cartridge is .308. Bird hunters tend to gravitate towards .222, .223 or 6,5x55. Those who mostly hunt deer and moose typically choose .308, 30-06 or 9,3x62. Factory cartridges are most often Lapua, Sako or Norma, the rifles Tikka or Sako. Pretty boring actually, but boring tends to bring home the meat smile

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Henrik,
That's more interesting information. I think it's very good advice, and it is the way I am going with my cartridge selection. Only problem, it cost me a lot of money to learn the lesson. I wish I had started hunting with some of those mentors! crazy Anyway, I had fun and learned a lot along the way.

My Dad and I are currently moving up the power range from 6.5x55, 270, 308, and 30-06. We are working with a 9.3x62, and I have a 375 on the way. I can't wait to see the larger caliber rifles in action.

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Ruistola,
Welcome to you as well. I really appreciate information from another perspective. Thanks for your input.

Steve

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thanks, ruistola and henrik.
some choice posts there.
the swedish - and, i assume, finnish - hunting style is very similar to the way most southerners used to hunt for deer: small parties of older and younger hunters, using dogs and post/drive techniques. it was/is a big social thing.
thanks again, and welcome.


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You have me wondering. I'm American, 49 years. Although not an english major, I struggle to write as well as you in my native language. Can I see some ID?

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Gmack, what kind of ID would you prefer? I could try to pose with my car outside my house and send you a photo cool

Or if you could wait until Monday I could send a picture of myself and a typical swedish roe deer.

Best Regards,
Henrik

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lol to funny..............please post the pic of the roe deer.....dont think ive seen to many pics of them


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What ID?, my thought processes haven't gotten that far. You have nothing in your campfire profile so I wouldn't expect you to compromise privacy.

It's not important, great posts, good luck.

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that's what i'm talkin' 'bout ...


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My FIL hunted in Sweden a couple of times during the early 1970s and shot some sort of large grouse (Capercaillie?) with his (now my) Heym combination gun in 16 over 8x57JSR. I've seen pictures of the grouse and it looked to be quite a bit larger than an average Nebraska turkey. Do you shoot many of those big birds?

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Wherever we live and hunt we are all brothers as hunters. The world would be a better place if there where more things that like hunting bring us together.........................DJ


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How about you next to a Swedish Girl with pig tails and a smile.
:-)


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Originally Posted by conrad101st
How about you next to a Swedish Girl with pig tails and a smile.
:-)


Conrad,
When I was stationed in Germany, me and two of my single lieutenant friends drove up to Stockholm and spent a few days. I guarantee you we tripped all over each other the entire time gawking at the gorgeous women. Let me assure that we hated to leave and took with us some memories that will NEVER fade.

Expat


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Jeff, the Capercaillie is a bird that lives mainly in the northern part of Sweden whereas I live outside of Gothenburg in the southwest. During my time in the Sweedish army I was stationed in the northern part of sweden where I was lucky enough to shoot some capercaillie. The capercaillie is a pretty big bird that could easily weigh more than 10 pounds. They are either hunted during winter when they feed in the treetops and the hunter will usually try to find them as he is skiiing around in the forest. Alternatively they can be hunted with dogs in a similiar way as grouse or pheasants.

I will try to post some pictures from Sweden and our hunting on monday when I'm back.

Since my wife is darkhaired there will be nuo pictures of blond girls with pigtails grin

Best Regards,
Henrik

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Gents,
I promised to deliever some kind of "ID" as to who I am. I'm not sure if this will suffice but I'll give it a shot.
Unfortunately I don't have a lot of pictures taken of myself but I'll show some that i got.

[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12222898.html[/img]
This is me and my son taken in our garden


[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12222812.html[/img]
Thats a decent roebuck that I shot last season, Roedeer are pretty small creatures and the will weigh up to 50 lbs but they are ferocious out of proportion to their size. They are hunted with chamberings from 222 rem and upwards. Here in Sweden we get to hunt them from August 16 to January 31 (some areas also has a spring season).I don't have any pictures of myself together with roedeer from last season which means that I'll have to post an older picture of myself and an average roebuck smile

[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12222813.html[/img]

Later in the season will start to hunt together in huntingclubs and this is a picture of some of my friends during a coffebreak.

[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12222816.html[/img]

As Jeff asked about capercaillie I'll add an old picture of my best (as in heaviest) capercaille even though the picture might be 6-7 years old. The picture is taken in the northern part of Sweden which is where I was stationed when I was in the army.

[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12222811.html[/img]

In the area where I normally hunt the mooses are not as big as they tend to be in the northern parts of Sweden but we do have a lot of them. Moosehunting in Sweden is normally not trophyhunting as most hunters focus on the delicious meat instead and the goal is to shot 50% calves, 25% cows and 25% bulls. Normally I get to shot a couple of mooses every year but I have never shot a really big bull (even though I have shot a lot of mooses). But lets show some pictures grin

[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12223345.html[/img]
This picture is of a cow and her calf taken in early september and I belive that I shot the same calf in mid december but then it was a bit bigger (see below).

[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12222814.html[/img]

I figure that the calf weighed around 300 lbs live weight at that time.

[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12223347.html[/img]
Thats a picture of the best bull that I've ever taken (and that was 8-9 years ago).


[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12222818.html[/img]
Since the different seasons often overlap and you do not need tags for most game animals we often get unexpected results, I shot this fallow deer when I intended to hunt moose.

[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12222817.html[/img]
We try to shoot foxes whenever we get an opportunity, this is my younger brother with a fox that he shot last season.

Another big game animal that is increasing in numbers as well as in popularity (among hunters not farmers ;)) are the wild boars I have added a couple of pictures of thoose as well.

[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12222815.html[/img]

The last picture is showing a boar that I shot last season unfortunately I did not bring any camera so I had to take the picture with my cell phone blush

[img]http://www.pixbox.se/pic_show_id12223344.html[/img]

I will stop now since I don't want to be expelled because I show to many heavy pictures.

But please feel free to ask any questions that you might have, I'll try to answer them ASAP.


Best regards,
Henrik


For some reason the pictures will not show, this is a link to the photoalbum that I'm using.
Pixbox



Last edited by Henrik; 07/09/07.
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