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Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: gonehuntin] #15242680 09/21/20
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fog will fugg you up too. i was way up a mountain before daylight one time and the fog rolled in quick like i have never seen. i sat down and waited for daylight. well daylight did not help. visibility was about 30 feet. i couldn't tell if i was going up or down. i have a good sense of direction and started moving back towards the way i came figuring i would be going downhill. well somehow i was going uphill. place was full of gulleys and mountain brush. i knew there was a road at the top of the ridge but i also knew that if i went the wrong way it would be a hell of a long way to a road. finally i heard a cow mooing way off in the distance. i knew there was a couple farms down in the valley near where i had parked and just started walking towards old bessie. she kept it up long enough that i was able to drop down out of the fog. when i got back down to the bottom i looked up and the ridge looked like something out of one of those pictures of the himalayas. the whole mountain was socked in for as far as i could see. that was the only time i was "concerned" so to speak. i drive through that area frequently and the fog on that ridge is thicker than i have ever seen. something to do with it being the highest eastern-most ridge in that part of PA. feels like the moon in winter too.


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Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: gonehuntin] #15242747 09/21/20
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Even a snowy day can screw you up. A dozen years ago my partner and I had moose tags in eastern ID. The area we were hunting was completely flat forest land. We parked on a road and intended to walk about 1/4 mile straight west to a small canyon where we'd been seeing moose sign. My partner led off with his son and me following. We'd gone maybe 300 yds when things just didn't feel right to me. I pulled out my compass and we were going straight EAST. I tapped the son on the shoulder and showed him the compass. We were smiling at each other when Dad walked out on the road about 100 yds from the pickup. He felt like an idiot but we had a good laugh. It wouldn't have been funny, though, if we hadn't hit the road and if we didn't have compasses.


A good sermon doesn't tell the difference between right and wrong. It tells the difference between right and almost right.
Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: gonehuntin] #15242773 09/21/20
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Back in '09 on an elk hunt I broke my leg crossing a creek, snapped my bone completely but didn't break the skin, my foot could touch my knee and did, in denial I grabbed my foot and tried putting it back but it just fell over again. The hunter I was guiding was in front and didn't see it, he came back asking what I was doing laying on the bank with my leg in the water, I had left it in to keep the swelling down. I picked my leg up and he saw my foot dangling and freaked, I told him I was going to pass out and to stay calm, then I did... woke up and it was real.

Walter was panicked, it had been raining hard all day, we had been out all day hunting and an hour of light left in canyon, no way to make a fire easily, no phone service for miles. I told him to go and get my brother in camp for help knowing it would be after dark before they could get back.

I'm laying there with my leg in the creek, soaked from the day's rain and falling in the creek. My body would start shaking and I'd try to calm it by deep breathing, cold or shock or both I don't know. After about an hour the shaking wore down, I started feeling warm, the leg stopped hurting, all my normal pains from being 52 years old and working construction went away. Soon I felt better than I've felt since I could remember. I knew what was happening and thought of that guy who left his family in the car after days of stuck in snow, they found him dead, he had taken his coat off, I knew he thought he was warm and feeling good.

When I finally got to the hospital the leg was really bad but their first concern was my core temperature was extremely low, the leg could wait for the morning.

When I die I want to die of hypothermia, it truly was the best I felt physically, at least since being an adult.

Kent

Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: Dillonbuck] #15242786 09/21/20
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Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
I have been somewhat confused about location a few times.
No threat, just things weren't how I perceived them.

Once, I was truly, no f'n idea where to go, lost.

I wasn't really far from a camp. But it was cold and getting dark.
I was as scared as anytime ever in the woods. Found my own tracks
in the snow, I had been circling the top of a big round knob. I had no idea
what direction to go, and not enough light to follow my tracks around again to
find where I came in.

It was a drive hunting situation, when I disappeared, they knew where I was.
Most of those guys had done the same thing there. (They put me 50 yards from
the top and told me to go straight. A setup knowing what they knew)
Anyway, they sent four wheelers looking for me. When I heard that engine, I dumped
my flashpowder and took off at a dead run.


No big deal. But close enough to learn a few lessons.

#1 Don't panic. Easy to say. But I kinda did.

Because. I missed one of the rules of being lost, one that really applied to me.

#2 Stay Put.

This one doesn't fit every single situation. But I applies to every one
until you at least KNOW what's up and which way to go.


In my case, I had no reason to be scared. I was within a half mile of
their camp. Moving had the potential to put me in much more remote
country. All I needed to do was sit down and wait. Someone was bound to
come looking or fire a shot.

#3
Don't think you have to find your way out.
That's where I went wrong.


It's really embarrassing to have gotten so screwed up in that situation.
I have hunted in remote areas. A long ways from anything.

But really it points to another important thought.
Some like to poke fun, and then talk about how they are prepared.

But that's where things go off the rails.
Experienced guys go "for a little walk", or I'm on a hunt that goes "nowhere really".
So many of the lost stories arent idiots.
They are people who weren't in desolate areas, just a couple hour hike.
Then things went to schidt!




you are an honest guy as opposed to people who never in their lives made a mistake. (yea right) always good to have a compass with you. anytime I go in the woods I got one. simple to use no batteries and totally reliable and spot on. I was in the appalachian mountains where if you climb a tree all you see is woods and hills. went off the trail me and another guy and I put a dead log across the road where we went in. walked about 3 miles then walked out. every time my friend would say no we gotta go this way I said no the compass says this way. our natural instinct to walk in a direction did not agree with the compass. we came out right where the log was on the trail I was suprised being I knew we would hit the trail by not come out by the log

Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: troublesome82] #15242790 09/21/20
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Originally Posted by troublesome82
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Hypothermia makes them feel warm at some point.



It is called paradoxical disrobing, an effect of severe hypothermia. We were on a mission many years ago looking for the wife of a local businessman in the mountains of Colorado. We found her unconscious , naked with her clothing strewn about the trail and her horse nearby. While it looked like a crime scene, it was not , she had severe hypothermia after falling off her horse. Weird stuff!


Troublesome,

You know where our ranch is in Colorado. Was setting at the dining room window one July day watching a few snow flurries when two college kids just ambled down the driveway right out of the woods. I say WTF??? When I got to them they were almost to the ranch gate. One definitely going hypothermic. They had crossed the red top ditch (chest deep). And were soaking wet! Tried to get them back to the house. They wouldn’t budge.
Called sheriff. Got one into ranch dump truck that was at the gate (the one in the worse condition). Sheriff arrives and got them out in his SUV. There were about 5-6 miles from their camp and had no clue where they were. They saw the ranches red barn from top of mountain and were trying to get to it. Missed it by about 2 miles.

One was from Denver other from Odessa Tx. Crazy!


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Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: gonehuntin] #15242806 09/21/20
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A doctor from someplace in eastern MO took his boys and their dog hiking one Sunday afternoon a few years ago, on the Missouri Trail. It gains a bit of elevation over there in Iron County, and they were dressed for summer, shorts and tshirts. Long story short, I believe the doctor and one of the boys died, and the other boy barely survived by cuddling with the dog. They got up there, it rained, and cooled off, and they died of hypothermia in temps well above freezing. It doesn’t take a lot to find oneself in a bad spot, if ignorance or carelessness is along for the ride.

Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: kaywoodie] #15242816 09/21/20
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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by troublesome82
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Hypothermia makes them feel warm at some point.



It is called paradoxical disrobing, an effect of severe hypothermia. We were on a mission many years ago looking for the wife of a local businessman in the mountains of Colorado. We found her unconscious , naked with her clothing strewn about the trail and her horse nearby. While it looked like a crime scene, it was not , she had severe hypothermia after falling off her horse. Weird stuff!


Troublesome,

You know where our ranch is in Colorado. Was setting at the dining room window one July day watching a few snow flurries when two college kids just ambled down the driveway right out of the woods. I say WTF??? When I got to them they were almost to the ranch gate. One definitely going hypothermic. They had crossed the red top ditch (chest deep). And were soaking wet! Tried to get them back to the house. They wouldn’t budge.
Called sheriff. Got one into ranch dump truck that was at the gate (the one in the worse condition). Sheriff arrives and got them out in his SUV. There were about 5-6 miles from their camp and had no clue where they were. They saw the ranches red barn from top of mountain and were trying to get to it. Missed it by about 2 miles.

One was from Denver other from Odessa Tx. Crazy!

why did you call the sheriff?

Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: SPQR70AD] #15242838 09/21/20
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Originally Posted by SPQR70AD
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by troublesome82
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Hypothermia makes them feel warm at some point.



It is called paradoxical disrobing, an effect of severe hypothermia. We were on a mission many years ago looking for the wife of a local businessman in the mountains of Colorado. We found her unconscious , naked with her clothing strewn about the trail and her horse nearby. While it looked like a crime scene, it was not , she had severe hypothermia after falling off her horse. Weird stuff!


Troublesome,

You know where our ranch is in Colorado. Was setting at the dining room window one July day watching a few snow flurries when two college kids just ambled down the driveway right out of the woods. I say WTF??? When I got to them they were almost to the ranch gate. One definitely going hypothermic. They had crossed the red top ditch (chest deep). And were soaking wet! Tried to get them back to the house. They wouldn’t budge.
Called sheriff. Got one into ranch dump truck that was at the gate (the one in the worse condition). Sheriff arrives and got them out in his SUV. There were about 5-6 miles from their camp and had no clue where they were. They saw the ranches red barn from top of mountain and were trying to get to it. Missed it by about 2 miles.

One was from Denver other from Odessa Tx. Crazy!

why did you call the sheriff?


SOP for lost folks. That and ambulance if needed. They didn’t need an ambulance they needed warming up and a quick reminder on their responsibilities in the mountains. Ergo trespassing, letting folks know where they were going, having a phone with them (which they did not) etc. simple stuff like that. They were more scared than anything else. No charges pressed, they got home safe. Happy ending.


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Jagdverein der lustigen Hüte

Hunting with wore out guns since before it was trendy!

If it isn’t baroque, don’t fix it
Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: gonehuntin] #15242849 09/21/20
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I am a big proponent of those cheap silver emergency survival blankets. They fit easily into a pocket or backpack. They cost 3 bucks. They have no insulative value, but do trap some body heat, can protect you from wind, can protect you from rain, can trap rain water for drinking and make a great search object.

Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: kaywoodie] #15242862 09/21/20
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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by SPQR70AD
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by troublesome82
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Hypothermia makes them feel warm at some point.



It is called paradoxical disrobing, an effect of severe hypothermia. We were on a mission many years ago looking for the wife of a local businessman in the mountains of Colorado. We found her unconscious , naked with her clothing strewn about the trail and her horse nearby. While it looked like a crime scene, it was not , she had severe hypothermia after falling off her horse. Weird stuff!


Troublesome,

You know where our ranch is in Colorado. Was setting at the dining room window one July day watching a few snow flurries when two college kids just ambled down the driveway right out of the woods. I say WTF??? When I got to them they were almost to the ranch gate. One definitely going hypothermic. They had crossed the red top ditch (chest deep). And were soaking wet! Tried to get them back to the house. They wouldn’t budge.
Called sheriff. Got one into ranch dump truck that was at the gate (the one in the worse condition). Sheriff arrives and got them out in his SUV. There were about 5-6 miles from their camp and had no clue where they were. They saw the ranches red barn from top of mountain and were trying to get to it. Missed it by about 2 miles.

One was from Denver other from Odessa Tx. Crazy!

why did you call the sheriff?


SOP for lost folks. That and ambulance if needed. They didn’t need an ambulance they needed warming up and a quick reminder on their responsibilities in the mountains. Ergo trespassing, letting folks know where they were going, having a phone with them (which they did not) etc. simple stuff like that. They were more scared than anything else. No charges pressed, they got home safe. Happy ending.

There's a point where medical attention is needed to warm them up. A blanket and a cup of hot coffee won't do it. When in doubt, an ambulance is very much in order. They know a lot more about where the breaking point is than I do.


A good sermon doesn't tell the difference between right and wrong. It tells the difference between right and almost right.
IC-B

Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: Rock Chuck] #15242886 09/21/20
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Very true RC


Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester

Jagdverein der lustigen Hüte

Hunting with wore out guns since before it was trendy!

If it isn’t baroque, don’t fix it
Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: SPQR70AD] #15243134 09/21/20
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Originally Posted by SPQR70AD
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by troublesome82
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Hypothermia makes them feel warm at some point.



It is called paradoxical disrobing, an effect of severe hypothermia. We were on a mission many years ago looking for the wife of a local businessman in the mountains of Colorado. We found her unconscious , naked with her clothing strewn about the trail and her horse nearby. While it looked like a crime scene, it was not , she had severe hypothermia after falling off her horse. Weird stuff!


Troublesome,

You know where our ranch is in Colorado. Was setting at the dining room window one July day watching a few snow flurries when two college kids just ambled down the driveway right out of the woods. I say WTF??? When I got to them they were almost to the ranch gate. One definitely going hypothermic. They had crossed the red top ditch (chest deep). And were soaking wet! Tried to get them back to the house. They wouldn’t budge.
Called sheriff. Got one into ranch dump truck that was at the gate (the one in the worse condition). Sheriff arrives and got them out in his SUV. There were about 5-6 miles from their camp and had no clue where they were. They saw the ranches red barn from top of mountain and were trying to get to it. Missed it by about 2 miles.

One was from Denver other from Odessa Tx. Crazy!

why did you call the sheriff?


Calling the sheriff seems like a logical step to take in order to get help for two people who needed help and were unwilling to accept the offer of help despite their obvious need for it. What would you have done if you had seen the condition that they were in and because of their compromised metal state were unable to help themselves?

Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: gonehuntin] #15243515 09/21/20
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Gonehuntin: I have personal knowledge of ONE Hunter who became lost/disoriented in a moderate snow fall. He indeed gave up his Rifle, daypack and was disrobing when some time later one of his Hunting party came across him and settled his mental state down after much effort!
I have NO certainty as to why people do strange/bizarre "things" when in shock/disoriented/confused but I have observed people in shock do bizarre things numerous times.
Hold into the wind
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Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: gonehuntin] #15243617 09/21/20
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Hypoxia inhibits brain functions. Hypothermia produces hypoxia, as does shock.


My ideal as a conservative:

That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: slumlord] #15243716 09/21/20
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Originally Posted by slumlord
I just sit in the Scottsdale with heater goin


I’m in Scottsdale right now after dentist appt, having a Italian beet at Portillos. Left at 5 am this morning it was 39 deg at my house. Its 97 deg right now in Scottsdale so I’m ready to throw off my clothes/shoes but the pavement would burn my feet.

Last edited by AZmark; 09/21/20.

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Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: gonehuntin] #15243734 09/21/20
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Originally Posted by gonehuntin
A bunch of stories posted here over the years where the lost people throw away their rifle and start stripping off their clothes, even boots, and are found practically naked. WTF??? Any definitive reason why they do things that stack the deck against their survival???
Pure panic... It happened to a neighbor of mine about 35+ years ago.. He and his party were hunting deer in northern WI.. As they were driving to a new area, they happened upon an elderly man literally running naked out of the woods! He had gotten lost, panicked and literally did what you described - dropped the rifle, tried to find his way outta this woods (about 7x15 miles in area) and got hot when running.. Got rid of the clothes and kept running.. When they got to him he was nearly literally foaming at the mouth in fear.. They got him in the truck, warmed him up and drove as fast as they could to the nearest hospital..

It does happen..


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Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: Redneck] #15243813 09/21/20
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Why wouldn't you call the Sheriff.

Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: AKCHOPPER] #15243885 09/21/20
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Originally Posted by AKCHOPPER
Why wouldn't you call the Sheriff.



Ok I’ll bite....

You call the sheriff because he or she can get additional resources to the scene faster than anyone else. Air evac, ambulance, search and rescue, etc... what if after an hour the two lost guys told the rescuer about their third buddy etc... what if the two lost college kids were escaped or wanted felons?....

Call the sheriff or the police when in doubt, good for the helpful party and good for the party in need.

Did I get a prize?

Last edited by 240NMC; 09/21/20.
Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: gonehuntin] #15244593 09/21/20
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A boat that was following us across a rough sound in November, lost its engine and started to take on water. We pulled alongside and started to take people into our boat. All were wearing life jackets. It became very evident that the boat was sinking. One guy stood on the bow of the sinking boat, took off his life jacket and jumped into the water. We were all yelling at him to stop, but he wasn't hearing us at all. He was about 1/4 mile from shore and in 20 feet of really cold water. We finally got him in our boat and pulled the sunken boat to the nearest shore. Some of us got out and pulled the sunken boat into shallow water, while our boat took the wet guys to the marina. Never did get an explanation from the guy what he was thinking when he took off a good life jacket and jumped into freezing water...has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever witnessed.


Harry
Re: Question about lost hikers/hunters/tourons... [Re: kaywoodie] #15244639 09/21/20
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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Originally Posted by troublesome82
Originally Posted by Fireball2
Hypothermia makes them feel warm at some point.



It is called paradoxical disrobing, an effect of severe hypothermia. We were on a mission many years ago looking for the wife of a local businessman in the mountains of Colorado. We found her unconscious , naked with her clothing strewn about the trail and her horse nearby. While it looked like a crime scene, it was not , she had severe hypothermia after falling off her horse. Weird stuff!


Troublesome,

You know where our ranch is in Colorado. Was setting at the dining room window one July day watching a few snow flurries when two college kids just ambled down the driveway right out of the woods. I say WTF??? When I got to them they were almost to the ranch gate. One definitely going hypothermic. They had crossed the red top ditch (chest deep). And were soaking wet! Tried to get them back to the house. They wouldn’t budge.
Called sheriff. Got one into ranch dump truck that was at the gate (the one in the worse condition). Sheriff arrives and got them out in his SUV. There were about 5-6 miles from their camp and had no clue where they were. They saw the ranches red barn from top of mountain and were trying to get to it. Missed it by about 2 miles.

One was from Denver other from Odessa Tx. Crazy!


I have no doubt! It was insane some of the SAR missions we had ( I volunteered for SAR from '86 to '96). I actually loved the summer missions as I got to roam the high country(usually in a t-shirt) with a buddy of mine in the middle of the night away from the mission base and all the posturing ego's! The outcomes were not always so pleasant. I was also one of the divers trained in recovery and water rescue in the county, it got a bit hectic some months!

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