Home Forums Reloading Handgun Reloading .38 special and 357 mag reloading

Is there any powder that will do double duty?

I've been using w231 with the .38 for lighter loads, but I am going to add .357 and haven't purchased any powder yet.

The goal of the 38 is light kicking loads and plenty of them. Goal for the 357 is 158-170 jacketed at 1200-1400fps, but not for volume shooting.

Is there any recommendations for a powder that will do both, or should I just find a dedicated powder for the 357?

Any reason not to go with Lil'Gun if I'm locked into the 357 having its own dedicated powder?

Thanks.

I always use Bullseye or Unique for 38, and Ho110 for 357...and have never found a dual purpose power that provides clean burning accuracy for both.

Not really. If I HAD to pick one powder, it would be HS-6 or AA#5. With either of these powders you will get moderate .357 loads while being able to load .38 Special, but you won't get 1400fps .357 Magnum loads. Much better to use different powders if you really want full bore .357 Magnum loads.

Don

IMR-4227 will work in both, with good speeds in the 357.

I agree it is better to use different powders though. What works really well in .38 will slow you down in 357.

I use Lilgun for full power 357mag loads, and AL-5 (there's a name from the past) for the 38. I have about 2lbs of AL-5 left, so that should last a while.

I have been using Blue Dot, and that will give you mild or wild with the .38 special. For real magnum loads though, I like SR 4756

I load a lot of 38/357, depends on what you are looking for. A mild 38 target load and a hunting level 357? Then there really is no single powder. Mid range in both then Bullseye, Titegroup, Unique, and perhaps some others.

I load AA # 5 for my snub nose 357's. I want a little more than 38 +P. I don't go past the staring load for the 357. Hasbeen

Unique would get you close in each with cast bullets, but not Ideal. Were I in your shoes I would invest in a can of 2400, 4227, or AA#9 for your .357 loads. I mainly shoot cast in both so have not used much 296/H110 or Lil'gun.

The powder you have will probably get you 1100fps in a .357 with a 158gr LSWC....

Yep, what many others have said. There really is no one good powder that I know of that will get you really good results with both .38 SPL and .357 MAG. You could use Universal, but you will not get the potential from the .357 with it. I would suggest either 2400 or H-110 for .357. You will need to use regular primers with the 2400 and magnum primers with the H-110.

Yeah, probably best to go with two powders. I use Unique in .38spl and 2400 in .357. I find 2400 more forgiving than H110/Win 296(same).

Trailboss for fun cast plinker loads

I use 231 for 38 and 110 for 357 (like many others above).

fwiw, I use 231 in 9mm, 38 spl, 45acp with good results across the board.

110 in 357 and 44.

My philosophy is the ins and outs of loading .38 Specials were worked out long ago. It's one cartridge I don't feel the need to try and re-invent the wheel with. A 158 lead semiwadcutter with Unique or a 148 lead wadcutter with Bullseye fills my needs for .38 loads and spares my time for fretting over other stuff.

Thanks guys.

I've been shooting the Hornady 158 xtp or berry's 158 grain plated bullet exclusively. I went with 9.5 grains of Blue dot in the .357 loads and for the 38 stuck with 4.4 grains of W231 for plinker loads. The 231 load has worked great in 2- m19's and an air weight.

Do you have a chronograph sir ? Many serious reloaders consider it essential equipment like I do, - beauty being you can test and tweak loads to your heart's content. Personally, I've always been a fan of Alliant "Unique" which does justabout every ctg I reload (many) well enuf, but in its recent hard-to-get status I went to a powder I bought for experimental purposes, Nobelsport Vectan "A0" powder which is primarily designed for shotgun (like Unique) yet it has a range of applicability in handgun & rifle ctgs quite similar to Unique although loading data is a little sparse. Its burn rate is listed near Alliant "Herco," and using some smarts and a chronograph and some interpolation of widely-published metallic ctg data for Unique and Herco and working-up safe and reasonable loads and testing them for speed and accuracy I don't consider myself at a loss for Unique being hard to find. In fact, I worked-up a 357mag loading for cast 120's in a Handi-Rifle that's about the best loading I ever discovered and it's totally unpublished. This is where a chronograph can be your friend in load development and I highly recommend one. My 2-cents on the topic of everybody having their favorite powders as listed above is fine and valid, but from a longtime experimenter who's gone thru many "specialized powders" in my learning curve I've recently concluded that a bottle of A0 which is cheap and available online can go far to replace a dozen specialized powders, and Unique and Herco too because I've done it with satisfaction it's not only a good standby to have, it's now my Go-To. Be safe and be smart and get a chronograph to proof you're not exceeding accepted velocity specs for any ctg or bullet strength be it cast or plated or jacketed and I've found A0 will prove a wholly acceptable and clean powder (and no stocking magnum primers either, - my intent in my experiments was to trim logistics and K.I.S.S.). If anyone would like to refute anything here have at it.
Respectfully for the community here, - Vincepo in The Poconos.

If by .38 Special you intend to load within SAAMI specification pressure limits to shoot in guns potentially incapable of handling something like 22,000 psi peak pressure, then the powders that will perform well at those pressures will not deliver the maximum velocities in 357 Magnum at 35,000 psi.

On the other hand, any of the powders that work well in .38 Special will also work very well in 357 Magnum, only they will not deliver the highest level of velocity possible with that cartridge. For example, a lot of people like Unique. Titegroup would be another outstanding powder. I have had the best results with HP-38/W231. I don't particularly care for the low velocities this powder delivers, but it burns clean and delivers outstanding consistency. As a point of reference, HP-38 can deliver a 158 grain XTP at 1000 fps in a 4" revolver using Hodgdon's 357 Magnum load data.

There are powders that will deliver more velocity from both 38 Special and 357 Magnum. Longshot, HS-6, Power Pistol and BE-86 are good examples. These are medium-burn rate for handgun powders. They will deliver the maximum performance for 38 Special and very good performance for 357 Magnum. Power Pistol, for example, can deliver a 158 grain XTP at 1150 fps from a 4" barrel revolver within 357's maximum peak pressure limit. Power Pistol has a lot of muzzle flash. I prefer BE-86, which has a flash suppressant and delivers about 25 fps lower velocity.

If your goal is to simply have low recoil loads for a 357 Magnum handgun, then there is no reason to use 38 Special loads. The difference between 38 Special and 357 Magnum is the peak pressure limit and the case length -- neither of which directly affect recoil. A 45 ACP has a low peak pressure limit similar to 38 Special+P (21,000 psi , but recoils a lot more than a 5.7x28 loaded to 50,000 psi (higher than a 44 Magnum). If you want low recoil, just using lighter bullets and high-energy (fast burning) powders in low charge masses will reduce recoil quite a bit, even at high pressures.

You didn't mention a barrel length for your velocity goal of 1200 to 1400 fps for 158-170 grain bullets in 357 Magnum. It makes a huge difference. In a 3" revolver, I would expect a powder like H110 or Lil'Gun to drive a 158 grain XTP about 1175 fps. In a 4" barrel, I would expect 1225 fps. In a 5" barrel, 1350 fps. To get 1400 fps, I would need a 6" or longer barrel. Bear in mind that Hodgdon's test data is for a 10" test barrel with no barrel-to-cylinder gap. So when they publish 1591 fps, we can't expect to see that in a typical revolver.

Lil'Gun has a reputation for rapid erosion of the forcing cone. This was widely publicized by Bob Baker of Freedom Arms who decided to void warranties if customers used it. He reported seeing a series of customer warranty claims, and conducted an investigation where he fired Lil'Gun loads and sliced the barrel to inspect the forcing cone for wear. He reported unusual wear with as little as 50 loads of 357 Magnum. The suspected cause of Lil'Gun's apparent behavior is the high percentage of nitroglycerin. If this is happening, it is due to high flame temperatures creating a Heat Affected Zone (HAZ). Letting the barrel "cool" between shots will not reduce the flame temperature or practically limit the creation of a HAZ if the flame temperature is hot enough. I have seen what I considered to be a high rate of barrel face erosion when I used Lil'Gun. I did not cut the barrel open to examine the forcing cone the way Bob Baker did. I also may have been biased by his warnings -- in other words, I may have just been seeing what I was expecting to see. You might also take note that MP300 has been suspected of being the same as Lil'Gun. They're both made at the St. Mark's powder plant (as are all ball powders of any brand name). Alliant has claimed that MP300 is slightly different. Different enough that it won't cause premature forcing cone erosion? I don't think it's popular enough in revolvers that anyone has really looked into it. It should be noted that the concerns about forcing cone erosion do not apply to .410 bore shotguns, which is the primary purpose of Lil'Gun. Lil'Gun also stinks -- literally.

H110 is probably the most popular "favorite" among the big-magnum powder for 357, but there are comparable powders like MP300, AA#9, Enforcer, and what I think may be the best: N110. I suggest one of these as an alternative to Lil'Gun if you have any concerns about it. On the other hand, you may find that these powders aren't worth the small amount of additional velocity they add with short barrels. In an 8" barrel or a rifle barrel, they can deliver hundreds of fps more, but in a short-barreled revolver, the velocity advantage is greatly diminished.

Medium burn rate powders like Longshot, HS-6, Power Pistol, Blue Dot, 2400 can deliver as much as 90% of the velocity of the big magnum powders out of a 4" revolver, with 40% less recoil energy and half the cost. They produce less recoil energy because they're producing both lower velocity and ejecting less powder mass. The powder mass and the mass of the gases the powder creates is accelerated to a much higher velocity than the bullet mass, so this contributes more per grain of mass to the total recoil energy. Since you're using about half as much powder mass in a cartridge but the price per pound is about the same, your cost-per-cartridge to use these powders is quite a bit less.

Finally, if you want my recommendation for a powder that will do it all, it's BE-86. It is also a medium burn rate powder, slightly faster-burning than Power Pistol but slower than Unique. It meters better than Unique. It meters wonderfully. It will work well at low pressures in 38 Special, and it will deliver good velocities in 357 Magnum. It has a flash suppressant. It typically sells for a lower price per pound than ball powders. It's not the cheapest (would that be Titewad?), but it is a very high performance powder. If you have to have the highest-velocities, I recommend N110 for 6" and longer barrels. N105 for shorter barrels. For a low-cost, low-recoil plinking powder: TiteGroup.

I am using more BE-86 in several cartridges more in the last few years. A very good modern formulation. Lights up like sawdust over a campfire.

To Mr. Western Juniper: your knowledge and scholarship are awesome ! Good read !

I have a 4" m19 and a 1-7/8" air weight that I load for.

I don't have a chronograph, but I am satisfied that I'm in a good place with these published loads.