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I am looking for some info on what is involved in converting a std (06 length) pre 64 action to take the H&H length cases. (7mm Mashburn or more likely 300 H&H) Also, some learned advice on the advisability of going that route could prove helpful.
I currently have a couple "extra" barrelled actions (both 270s) but with a very good 270 and 30-06 fwt already there is some redundancy so I am looking into my options!

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There were pics and a discussion about such a gun on this forum several years back. Don’t remember specifics, but at the very least the bolt face was opened up. BSA will probably recall the gun.


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Why would anybody want to do that when there are plenty of mag actions available? curious minds want to know...


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I'm with Hubert. Why?


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Not many pre 64 H&H actions up here and they bring a real premium when you find one.

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Originally Posted by patbrennan
Not many pre 64 H&H actions up here and they bring a real premium when you find one.

Might be easier to find a 300H&H that has had the Weatherby treatment done to it. They seem to be easier to find, but not a lot either way.

I have a "real nice" 700 here in Super 30 if that blows yur hair back. smile

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Originally Posted by patbrennan
I am looking for some info on what is involved in converting a std (06 length) pre 64 action to take the H&H length cases. (7mm Mashburn or more likely 300 H&H) Also, some learned advice on the advisability of going that route could prove helpful.
I currently have a couple "extra" barrelled actions (both 270s) but with a very good 270 and 30-06 fwt already there is some redundancy so I am looking into my options!


BobinNH used a 270 Classic action for his 7mm Mashburn Super. Simillion built his rifle and said by the time he works over an action the little extra to make it longer to accept a 3.6” cartridge isn’t too awfully much more. Kevin Weaver is another that’ll do the machine work to make everything work nicely.

Anyone that has a lead on where magnum P64’s are please post them up. I don’t see them regularly in my searches.

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As you probably know, the actions themselves are the same length. Opening a standard cartridge action to H&H length cartridges involves “opening” the back of the action, bolt face and receiver rails, as well as the mag box itself. Al and Roger Biesen told me it was not a difficult task. At current shop rates, however, it will no doubt run into folding money.

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GF1: I think the magazine follower and extractor (from a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in 270 Winchester caliber) would also need to be "changed out" and those costs and the costs/parts you mention convinces me that in todays market of exorbitant riflesmithing costs the OP would be much better off finding the correct pre-64 Winchester Model 70 "action/Rifle" to begin with.
Best of luck to the original poster with his project.
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just within the past few weeks, Darcy Echols has put a "detailed and very long" post on his blog about doing just that. I agree with the others that it would be "far" less expensive to just buy a long magnum action to start with. If it were me, I'd buy the whole gun and sell the barrel and stock and go from there.

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Originally Posted by ruffedgrouse
just within the past few weeks, Darcy Echols has put a "detailed and very long" post on his blog about doing just that. I agree with the others that it would be "far" less expensive to just buy a long magnum action to start with. If it were me, I'd buy the whole gun and sell the barrel and stock and go from there.



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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by ruffedgrouse
just within the past few weeks, Darcy Echols has put a "detailed and very long" post on his blog about doing just that. I agree with the others that it would be "far" less expensive to just buy a long magnum action to start with. If it were me, I'd buy the whole gun and sell the barrel and stock and go from there.



Exactamundo..^^^^



What they said...

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Originally Posted by Poconojack

There were pics and a discussion about such a gun on this forum several years back. Don’t remember specifics, but at the very least the bolt face was opened up. BSA will probably recall the gun.


Yeah, Ken (elkhunterNM) has one. Maybe he will chime in....There may have also been another one we saw that was converted. The sad thing about when someone does this conversion is sometimes the buyer may not be aware. It totally devalues the rifle. I'm with the guys that are saying just find an H&H receiver or complete rifle to build on. Sometimes its much easier to just find the complete rifle. If you have to, buy the complete rifle and part out what you don't use. I'd much rather see that happen, then seeing what used to be a standard action converted to an H&H cartridge. And yes, there are H&H rifles out there to be had at great deals. The last one I bought was $600.00....:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The one before that cost me $499.00, because it had been rechambered to 300WBY. I love the rifle though and plan on keeping it:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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All good info, thanks. Just checking to see if it was a viable option. The search continues!

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If you want something different, why dont you send your rifle to JES and let them turn it into a Whelen or 9.3x62?


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
If you want something different, why dont you send your rifle to JES and let them turn it into a Whelen or 9.3x62?

Not sure it’s as easy as that given his residence in Canada. Lots of paperwork I believe ...

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Originally Posted by AKwolverine
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
If you want something different, why dont you send your rifle to JES and let them turn it into a Whelen or 9.3x62?

Not sure it’s as easy as that given his residence in Canada. Lots of paperwork I believe ...

Oh, that sucks.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Most of the paperwork has to be completed on the States side of the border, bet JES is familiar with the deal.


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Nearly 35 yrs. ago I sent a tired .30-06 to Randall Redman who at the time was considered the Dean of the old time rebore men. I have shot all manner of handloads thru the rifle, it never disappoints accuracywise. It has been my go to whitetail rifle for many years. Interesting story about a .300 H & H, back in the late 70's I attended a gun show in Highland, IL there was a vendor there with several tables of handguns. I had seen him at several gun shows in the area over the years and he nearly always had strictly handguns. This particular time there on the end of his table sat a lone M/70, I inquired what caliber it was and he told me it was a .300 H & H and that if I were interested he'd make me a good deal as IL was not rifle country. To my surprise the price was $400.00 OTD which I gladly paid, it was the least I ever paid for a long magnum M/70.

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As an aside I've thought about a rebore. There is only one outfit this side of the border that does it and when all is said and done you would save a couple hundred over a decent new barrel installed.

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I'm in California and measure costs, particularly skilled labor costs, at accentuated values. Too often, putting projects out of reasonable ballpark!
That said, I'm with the vast majority suggesting begin with such as a 300 Mag action. I'll add even though more pricey, with patience possibly just to find a 300 Win Mag with the whole factory 'shebang' done for you. I understand when 'researched' and heart set on particular cartridge. But much to be said re 300 Win Mag considering 100% "factory production" A heavier initial investment, but if 'no substantial alterations and you can live with the factory round, presumably $$$$ saved there. If you change stock, just keep the original! Below mine.
As usual, you pay your money and you take your choice! I'm just a great Occam's Razor advocate!
Best & Good Luck! Hope whatever your decision, your keep your 'public' here informed how it all turns out! smile
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Originally Posted by iskra
I'm in California and measure costs, particularly skilled labor costs, at accentuated values. Too often, putting projects out of reasonable ballpark!
That said, I'm with the vast majority suggesting begin with such as a 300 Mag action. I'll add even though more pricey, with patience possibly just to find a 300 Win Mag with the whole factory 'shebang' done for you. I understand when 'researched' and heart set on particular cartridge. But much to be said re 300 Win Mag considering 100% "factory production" A heavier initial investment, but if 'no substantial alterations and you can live with the factory round, presumably $$$$ saved there. If you change stock, just keep the original! Below mine.
As usual, you pay your money and you take your choice! I'm just a great Occam's Razor advocate!
Best & Good Luck! Hope whatever your decision, your keep your 'public' here informed how it all turns out! smile
John

Hes not asking about a 300 win mag. In the pre 64 world theres a huge difference between it and the H&H. Im thinking most of the guys here would rather put their nut in a vise than to destroy an original 300wm. Good luck ever finding one of those at a sane price too. Its likely not going to happen. He's wanting an H&H. The best alternative is to find an H&H (300 or 375) and go from there. Too much fiddling around to turn his std's into an H&H and then theres the guys that will always point out the fact that the rifle is not correct. An H&H belongs in an H&H action. Another funny thing about the H&H receiver is it makes a dandy action to build short magnums off of too. For one thing, they are lighter. They also allow for more room in the magazine, both depth wise and length wise. You have the best of all worlds, if you are wanting to build a lightweight 300wm or 338wm. The one I have weighs in at 7 pounds and it holds 4 in the mag box. The same can be said for my 300WBY that is a rechambered 300H&H.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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If you go the rebore route - you could pull the barrel up north, then send just the barrel to JES.


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I have two, all original and for sale, not cheap but not overpriced, a 300H&H and a 375H&H


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Responding to BSA1917hunter...

You've misunderstood my post or perhaps myself unclear: Simply presenting 'another' alternative. Admitting immediately it requires weaning-away from the chambering O/P desires. The plus, not a huge cartridge ballistics difference. Also, factory ammo available!
My proposal, restated. Do some wise shopping, Find a pre '64 Model 70 in 300 Winchester Magnum. Live with its factory "similar" chambering! Admittedly, as only made in '63, the 300 WM are pricey. But notably, "investments". Change the stock if desired. The two keys: DON'T alter any metal and RETAIN the original stock intact! Shoot it as it's chambered with whatever custom stock pleases. The rifle will continue to appreciate versus any - excuse me for frankness - Bubba conversion and particularly in a Wildcat chambering! THIS WAS JUST ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE VERSUS MY JOINING THE MAJORITY BELOW with just a few notations.

The alternative, also my first thought on reading the O/Ps plan as others have also referenced: Find a pre '64 Model 70 magnum. Moreover, find one already altered. Typically, the early models without D&T bridge, such alteration removing them from pure collector interest. (Ironically, making it scope-mounting friendly IF holes properly placed!) Ergo, more reasonably priced and not desecrating a "collector piece". Then... "have your way with it!" Still, the net-net is almost certainly a depreciated rifle from point of investment costs. The positive, literally getting exactly the rifle desired at 'comparatively' lesser cost than "convert standard action" plan!

Such... My take!
Best & Stay Safe
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All good points, thanks to everyone for their thoughts. Nice to see a discussion that stays on topic and offers some alternative solutions!
Clearly the best/most cost effective route is to try to find a good 300 H&H that is not collector quality and go from there. I am still wrestling with the "logic" of setting up one when I have a very good 30-06 fwt, that shoots very well, already set up/stocked as I want it! Definitely a first world problem.

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Originally Posted by iskra
Responding to BSA1917hunter...

You've misunderstood my post or perhaps myself unclear: Simply presenting 'another' alternative. Admitting immediately it requires weaning-away from the chambering O/P desires. The plus, not a huge cartridge ballistics difference. Also, factory ammo available!
My proposal, restated. Do some wise shopping, Find a pre '64 Model 70 in 300 Winchester Magnum. Live with its factory "similar" chambering! Admittedly, as only made in '63, the 300 WM are pricey. But notably, "investments". Change the stock if desired. The two keys: DON'T alter any metal and RETAIN the original stock intact! Shoot it as it's chambered with whatever custom stock pleases. The rifle will continue to appreciate versus any - excuse me for frankness - Bubba conversion and particularly in a Wildcat chambering! THIS WAS JUST ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE VERSUS MY JOINING THE MAJORITY BELOW with just a few notations.

The alternative, also my first thought on reading the O/Ps plan as others have also referenced: Find a pre '64 Model 70 magnum. Moreover, find one already altered. Typically, the early models without D&T bridge, such alteration removing them from pure collector interest. (Ironically, making it scope-mounting friendly IF holes properly placed!) Ergo, more reasonably priced and not desecrating a "collector piece". Then... "have your way with it!" Still, the net-net is almost certainly a depreciated rifle from point of investment costs. The positive, literally getting exactly the rifle desired at 'comparatively' lesser cost than "convert standard action" plan!

Such... My take!
Best & Stay Safe
John


You make a good point. I'm wondering how many 300wm's the OP would run across in his neck of the woods though?? Its good to have alternatives. I think the OP should get together with Kutnay and see if he may have a rifle he'd let go of.. I'm sure that old codger, Dewey, has just what the op is looking for...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by patbrennan
All good points, thanks to everyone for their thoughts. Nice to see a discussion that stays on topic and offers some alternative solutions!
Clearly the best/most cost effective route is to try to find a good 300 H&H that is not collector quality and go from there. I am still wrestling with the "logic" of setting up one when I have a very good 30-06 fwt, that shoots very well, already set up/stocked as I want it! Definitely a first world problem.



I'd set up a good 300 magnum or 338wm, even though you have a great 30-06 as well. We all have awesome 30-06 rifles, but that doesn't mean we can't have a good 300 or 338. I'd feel naked if I didn't have my 338wm during elk season here. Even though I know my 30-06, loaded with 200 grain partitions, puts the smack down on them too..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I wonder if converting from .30-'06 to .300 RCM would be easier? Open the bolt face, maybe change the magazine follower, rechamber, done? Dunno what the .300 RCM would do enough better than a .30-'06 to make doing the work worthwhile, though...

If that conversion is really relatively easy (since I'm just guessing), converting to a .338 or even .375 RCM might not be all that much more difficult. Rebarrel probably, instead of just rechambering... but both would be offering a more serious step up...

Just some random thoughts...

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As a followup I have managed to stumble onto a very nice H&H length action that has been rechambered to 300 weatherby, and have also located an excellent original 300 H&H barrel that will be installed shortly. Sometimes better to be lucky than good!
Gun in question has an aftermarket stock (rollover cheekpiece) that will not stay as it is for long (may get a bit of a makeover if the foundation of a decent stock is there). Search will be on for a pre 64 monte carlo (refinished would be fine for my purposes) or a quality synthetic to get the rifle back into action.

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Old original post but it was stated that the basis would be a standard action. If the individual was just looking for an increase in velocity without the cool factor of an H&H, he might consider converting the standard action to a 300 WM. Been there, done that.

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Its more trouble than its worth. Sell one of your Pre-64s and find a true full magnum action. Its cheaper than trying to convert a standard action.

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Originally Posted by patbrennan
As a followup I have managed to stumble onto a very nice H&H length action that has been rechambered to 300 weatherby, and have also located an excellent original 300 H&H barrel that will be installed shortly. Sometimes better to be lucky than good!
Gun in question has an aftermarket stock (rollover cheekpiece) that will not stay as it is for long (may get a bit of a makeover if the foundation of a decent stock is there). Search will be on for a pre 64 monte carlo (refinished would be fine for my purposes) or a quality synthetic to get the rifle back into action.


Any updates on this project? smile

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So far I have had the original H&H barrel installed (by Gary Flach) and he cleaned up the bolt face at the same time. I have found a pre 64 monte carlo that is solid and uncut, but checkering is worn. Bouncing back and forth between that stock and the aftermarket stock that needs a makeover and still keeping an eye out for a good lightweight synthetic that would be appropriate.
Right now I am fighting off some gun cabinet rationalization that has me wondering whether to continue with the project or just stick with the two really nice pre 64 fwts I have. Meantime I ran into a decent 264 WM westerner through a friend, but that one will be the first to go. Definitely first world problems!

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Pat there is a real nice 300 H&H for sale on CGN right now. Or there was.

Edit: it’s gone.

Last edited by pathfinder76; 07/31/21.
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Originally Posted by patbrennan
So far I have had the original H&H barrel installed (by Gary Flach) and he cleaned up the bolt face at the same time. I have found a pre 64 monte carlo that is solid and uncut, but checkering is worn. Bouncing back and forth between that stock and the aftermarket stock that needs a makeover and still keeping an eye out for a good lightweight synthetic that would be appropriate.
Right now I am fighting off some gun cabinet rationalization that has me wondering whether to continue with the project or just stick with the two really nice pre 64 fwts I have. Meantime I ran into a decent 264 WM westerner through a friend, but that one will be the first to go. Definitely first world problems!


The 300H&H is kinda like a +p 30-06. Still practical enough for everything without being too much into the "magnum" territory. If one owned one of them along with a nice pre64 270, they'd want for nothing and have a nice classic pair of rifles. I'd pass on the 264 as it really doesn't have much to offer over a 270.

I'd go with the walnut stock with a M8 4x Leupold for the classic rifle ensemble. smile Have it bedded and sealed up. You could get Gary to clean up the checkering a bit. You can always get a synthetic down the road but seeing that the walnut stock already shows use, you won't be afraid to use it some more.

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Pathfinder76, thanks for the heads up. IIRC that was a very nice one on cgn, though outside my budget at present. I am too clumsy and working class to use one that nice!

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