Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General Lever Guns: Best make and model ever? Why or why not??

Gotta love the old 95 especially in the venerable .405 win , dont know about lions and rhino but would sure make one sweet set up for everything in North America....

Walker wrote:

My cousin has a Savage 99 chambered in .303 Savage. Not sure what model it is or if it was a carbine....but I know it was not a take down and the barrel was of medium weight.

He and I would reload together.....and from time to time we'd reload the .303 Savage. Peculiar looking round. The Savage could outshoot nearly every one of my bolt action rifles. Not bad for a firearm that was made in the early 1920's.

What was the reason for the .303 if it was the ballistic twin of the 30-30? Why didn't Savage simply make the much more powerful .300 Savage their .30 caliber entry into the field rather than set up the logical competition between the .303 and the .300?

Makes no sense to me.

I've read that the .303 Savage was actually on the market a few months before Winchester's .30 WCF. Not sure if that's true, though. Maybe Les (Violator22) or one of the other Savage collectors here can shed some light.


Do you mean ... competition between the .303 Savage and the .30 WCF?

The .300 Savage cartridge wasn't invented until about 1920, and I think Charles Newton had a hand in that development, which came even after the introduction of the .22 Savage Hi-Power and the .250-3000.

Funny, this whole thing has gone 1895 vs 1899.
I like Savage guns, always have, but all 99s are not created equal. The .303, despite its name, still used a .308" bullet, the difference was, it was loaded with 190grs. of weight. Folks today load the .303 as the lesser cousin of the 30-30 mostly due to caution and the age and unknown abuse heaped upon 99s in .303.
The real downfall of the Savage 99 lies in the chamberings. Traditional levergunners like heavy bullets at modest velocities, and the only Savage cartridge to fit this bill was the old .303-the .250, .300, .308WCF seem to make up the bulk of the chamberings I've seen, all fine rounds, yet not one of them the equal to the old Krag, or the 30-06 with a good 220 softpoint.
Folks tell me they made the 99 in a bunch of other chamberings, I even heard someone say they made some in .375 WCF. If that was true, now that would make a levergunner proud.
If I had to choose between the 99 and the 95, well, just because of those great cartridges, the Winchester gets the nod.

Don't forget the M99 was chambered for the .358 Winchester!

Huh?


Savage Levergun Chamberings :

.375 Win.
.358 Win.
.308 Win.
.284 Win.
.243 Win.

.38-55 Win.
.32-40 Win.
.30-30 Win.
.25-35 Win.

7mm-08 Rem.
.22-250 Rem.

.303 Savage
.300 Savage
.250-3000 Savage
.22 Savage Hi-Power


Edited to add: There was also a .410 shotgun barrel offered for take-down models.

Far as I can tell, anything other than the .250, .300, or .308 is pretty darn rare around here.
How many .375s have you seen?
Me, I've seen zero.
Thus my point about chamberings, and my choice for the 95.

Okay, I see. You prefer the '95 Winchester because it's easier to find one of those in a traditional levergun chambering, like the .30-40 Krag. (grin)

I'm a big fan of leverguns, generally, and the '95 Winchester is an interesting design, and it has a colorful history, to boot. I'll admit, though, that the protruding box magazine is a deal breaker, for me. I'd be happy to hang one on the wall, but would not care to hunt with one, given my 'druthers.

Elmer Keith wasn't a big fan of the '95's form, either. He once likened it to "a poisoned pup, ripening in the sun." A harsh critique, maybe, but Elmer wasn't one to beat around the bush.

I've thought many times of buying a '95. Probably would not use it much, though.........

405 would be the chambering, of course........

I've got three and they are all Winchester models and Browning designs.
#1 1886 45-70 Accurate, strong, smooth.
#2 1892 45 Colt Yes it's a Rossi, thin of it as 45-70 short.
#3 1895 405 Winchester and 30-06, Accurate, bull strong, these two calibers should handle anything on this continent.
Jim

Well for me the Savage 99 is the most functional/practicle , I have used a 300 sav. with excelent results of several critirs. but my first hunting rifle was a Marlin 336 in 30/30 and I keep coming back them . Both models work wonderfully and are completely dependable in my experience. I would be happy to carry either one after deer ( or elk for that matter).

Savage 989 in 300 Savage made just after WW2. It is smooth, fast and powerful enough for all lower 48 hunting (with proper bullets)

Mak wrote:


Interesting take.

I always thought that the biggest STRENGTH of the Savage 99 was its ability to handle high pressure rounds including the fine .300 Savage and later chamberings in .284 Win and .358 Winchester (just to name a few). The Model 94 is a fine rifle and the modest 30-30 Winchester is fully capable of taking deer at any REASONABLE range. That said....the .300 Savage adds another 500 fps to the speed of the 30-30 Win with the ability to use bullets with far better ballistic properties.

Does this matter out to 150 yards? Hardly a bit. But to think that hunters REJECTED the Savage because it was chambered in a high pressure round...that doesn't make a lick of sense.

I have seen (and shot) some beautiful pre 1964 Winchesters. I love 'em. They don't HAVE to be anymore that what they are. My personal opinion is that the biggest single flaw in the Winchesters and the Marlin is that their most popular rifles (the Model 94 and Model 64)and I believe all of the Marlins were not capable of being chambered in high pressure rounds.

The .303 Savage is actually a .311 caliber. From the best of my knowledge it will shoot .308 caliber bullets without much fuss.

.

Which is best? The Winchester 86/92 or 95? Maybe the 94. Truth is, they are all great guns. I have Marlin 336s Winchester 94s and a Savage 99. They are very good at what they were designed to do. So it comes down to the intended use and, most of all, personal preference. In reading this thread I can see where presonal preference is the primary issue. The 95 and 99 are most likely the strongest and fire higher velocity cartridges but in deep woods hunting fast handling is the issue. Long range and high velocity are of little use in dense woods and are not needed. So which is best? Best for what?

The best is the one YOU like.

Jim

Come on, JB, PICK ONE, dammit!



As far as the strongest of the strong, the blue ribbon might go to the 88 Winchester, Browning BLR, or the SAKO Finnwolf, .... but nobody likes any of those. (Ine juss keeeeedeeeen!)

I guess the question of "best" lever action rifle is purposely subjective.

The question of "best" should include a rifle that is not only beautiful and of the highest quality, but should have a world class design. That is, it should be a great shooter and FUNCTION really well. Lastly, there ought to be an element of universal desirability. A rifle that is a collector.

Notice: For me, for a lever rifle to qualify....the rifle doesn't NEED to be a great hunting rifle. The Henry rifles have a great deal to offer and are very beautiful and yet many consider the Henry to be more of a shooter and not as much as a hunter.

Good discussion so far......lets keep it going.

Hey Walker, I have a fair sized Winchester 94 collection. Does that tell you anything? And, almost 7 million gun buyers have agreed that it was a great firearm.

I still stand by my first post!
They are all great.

Jim

.

Savage 99E, post war, plain Jane model, stock not even checkered. Most basic model and my major deer blaster.

Cur Dog...what caliber is your Savage 99E in? Also, what year did Savage begin to chamber their 99's for calibers other than the big 4? (.22 Imp, 250-300, .303 Savage and .300 Savage?)

I saw a beautiful model 99 in .358 Winchester a few years ago at a gun show. The dark walnut stock was incredible. I think it was being sold for just under $500 and the year was like 1990 or something. I know now that I should have bought it....but I was at the gun show looking for a Whitworth Mark X Mauser action for a .35 Whelen I was building. I actually found the action I was looking for....but saw this Savage M99 in .358 Win. Kinda cool.

The .303 British uses a .312" diameter, the .303 Savage, a .308". Folks have confused them in the past, but they are different cartridges.
The idea that the 99 can handel super high pressure is one we will disagree with. They are strong rifles, way ahead of their time, and they inspire a passionate following, but a hot .308WCF is pushing it in the Savage.
The 99s are designed around short cartridges. These are at their best with light to medium weight bullets for caliber. These type of cartridges are deadly when properly employed, yet they lack the extra insurance of a heavy for caliber bullet when the shots are less than ideal.
The Winchester 94 is a fine rifle, especially in pre-64 guise. It has proven itself already, and needs no help from me.
The Winchester 1895 has always had folks lining up to dish it, usually on questionable grounds. I've heard one writer say it handels like a truck axle. Well, I've never taken a truck axle out hunting, so maybe I'm not qualified, but I find the 1895 in either carbine or rifle to be responsive and lively.
Sure, Elmer Keith dished it, but if word of mouth and period photos are any indication, there were plenty of folks who didn't share Mr. Keiths opinion on this matter.
Its funny, those who like their militaria seem to really like box magazines that hang way down on their rifles. I never understood why the small magazine of the 1895 drew so much flak.
Finally, spitzers in the 99? Well, the 95 can use em with equal aplomb.
Sometimes I think that those who are the most critical are the most heard. Critics of Winchesters have always been vociferous, but for them, thats why there are other brands.
I still vote for the Winchester 1895.