Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General Lever Guns: Best make and model ever? Why or why not??

Surely this thread will get some discussion and likely some will be heated debate. This is not my intent and in keeping with the spirit of the orginator....lets first agree that anyone who owns a lever action rifle is lucky.

I'd like to keep this topic about the best make and model in sense of a hunting, shooting, collecting and the fit, finish and overall beauty and craftsmanship.

I'm not asking which rifle is most historically important or even which one is most popular...but rather which is most desirable for what it does and what it is.

Lastly....which caliber would you say is the most perfect for the lever action rifle?

My picks:

I have always thought the Model 71 Winchester in .348 Winchester has to be the rifle I'd most love to own. The rifle seemingly more rare than the cartridge. I have been to dozens of gunshows in my life and have NEVER seen one of these classics for sale.

I think the M64 Winchester has to be my favorite in the way the wood looks and feels. Wow.....the action is so slick.

Personally, I own a vintage Savage Model 99. The rifle was made in 1923 and is chambered in the .300 Savage. One of the most aesthetically pleasing rifles I have ever seen. The rotary magazine is a wonder....holding 5 shots in the magazine and one in the chamber....with the ability to work with high pressure rounds with pointed bullets. Amazing! My rifle is a take-down so if you ever HAD to fold it up....you could. I wonder how many other lever action rifles could do all of that?

Enjoy the topic.

Next........

Nuff said


Mike

Well having only ever had one lever gun. I really can't say what the best make and model is. But for me I have had a few bolt guns in the past and never really wanted a lever gun. I allways thought they were too outdated and only for cowboy wanna be's. But after getting my m94ae I can now say I am hooked on lever guns. I mean I am amazed at how light and easy it is to get around in the bush. So in my opinion the best make and model of lever gun is any one that can make a bolt man like me want to grab a lever and go hunting.

My 1st lever gun (kid) was a Winchester Model 1892 25-20.
The rifle was vintage and near mint- the action was smooth and reliable, The rifle was easy to handle and accurate to shoot. Wished I'd held on to it. Many regard the Model 1892 as Winchester's best lever gun design.

In more recent years I've gotten hooked on Marlins, Big Bores, 336's, Model 1894's (pistol calibers 32 mag, 357 mag, 41 mag, & 44 mag)- most all of them, shorter barreled carbines.

Some find the length of pull lacking, the sight radius not adequate, and just about "everything else" wrong with them- until they actually shoot the gun- and find it comfortable to shoulder, aim , and fire- and hit precisely on target.

It seems almost as though, all the criticisms of "what's wrong" with a little lever carbine rifle- all combined together ... somehow make the formula just "right".

Personally, the 99eg savage does it! Graceful, light and accurate - a work of art. I think the real beauty of lever guns lies in the fact that they were popular at a time when guns were designed by men, not computers. I don't care what vintage gun you handle, but if you were blindfolded, you would pick the old one for handling and feel.These things melt in your hands!

This will make some here cringe....Browning 71.

Does not have the gravitas of the Winchester, but a real shooter.

Marlin M39! The M39A has been in production longer than any other design still being offered (I think?). And for many reasons. They are incredible little works of art with that dainty little receiver, all steel construction, American black walnut stocks, and super slick actions. The M39 takes down for easy cleaning. The design has earned a reputation for ruggedness and reliability. And accuracy! In my preference, the 39A, we have a nice hefty barrel that balances so well and makes offhand shooting and field shooting a breeze. The M39 has brought many a meal to the table of American families over the decades. Cottontails, squirrels, and heaven only knows what other game species have been turned to a meal by the little .22LR lever gun. The little lever action .22LR has also protected the chicken coop from foxes, coons, and coyotes. In the old days "chicken hawks" were kept at bay. Pest such as burrowing groundhogs under the barn, skunks, opposums, and venomous reptiles were the duties of the M39A. Who could possibly guess how many young marksmen were taught safety, responsibility, and honed their hunting and rifle skills with a M39? Ahhh, fellows these are beautiful little rifles with a rich history of service. The M39A is my pick...

Ok after reading that about the M39A I am inspired to pick a couple of those up for my boys. Looks like it would be the perfect gun to teach them gun safety and hunting. Would be a lot of fun to take them squirrel and rabbit hunting.

Yep......I'm cringin'.....

This one the closest to a bolt gun feel of any, ever, IMO.....

My vote goes to the Winchester 1886 extra-light, that baby points like a fine shot-gun, is chambered in one of the best medium range cartridges ever made(45-70) Has a 22" barrel, with half magazine, so it looks great, all around a great action with awesome chambering. The fact that one cant mount a scope is no detriment to me, as the 45-70 is suited to medium range, something the rifle sights can handle well.

Yeah, they're okay........

2muchgun...yeah, that was for you . You have a couple of beauties there, enjoy them.

The Browning '71's are actually very good....

'64's are cool too........

And, as stated, the 99's......

Let us also not forget,

the model 55,
or the ever popular 1894, but to be perfectly honest,
I'd just as soon my 444..............grin


'55




94's




444

I'm a lefty so levers work well for me. My favorites are Model 88 in 338-08, Model 64 in 30/30 and Model 99 in 358. As far as 22's go I don't think you could find a better one than the Marlin 39A.
I like them enough that I really have more than I need.

+1!!!

Very cool. Who stocked the 338-08? What is your other '88 chambered in? Looks like a fine specimen....

I think the early savage 99s, the pre. mil. ones! but I had a 86 win. extra light in 45-70, only gun that i have ever realy regreted selling! John

My picks:

Centerfire (in order)
Pre-mil Savage 99
Marlin 336
Marlin 1895
Winchester 1886
Winchester 71
Winchester 1894/94
Winchester 88

Rimfire:
Marlin 39A

(WAYYYYYYY behind)
Winchester 9422
Browning BL-22

I really would love to own a .44 Magnum lever gun.

Savage 99
Model 88
Win 94
Marlin 336
Have them all and like every one of them.

tomuchgun,
I bought the semi-fancy 88 stock from Fajen just before they went out of business. It was a fitted unfinished blank. The 338-08 is a post 64 model ( I think it's better mechanically than the pre 64 ) The other 88 is a pre-64 in 308

Why do you want a lever gun to feel like a bolt action rifle? The very fact they do not feel like a bolt gun is why I like them in the first place.

We only own one lever gun, a Marlin 1885 guide gun. I've never cared for lever guns, but the Marlin is slowly winning me over. The Winchester 1895 has also caught my eye. It was good enough for T.R.

First of all my hats off to some great gun pictures above. Now to the question.

"I'm not asking which rifle is most historically important or even which one is most popular...but rather which is most desirable for what it does and what it is.
Lastly....which caliber would you say is the most perfect for the lever action rifle?"

I think that the 99 Savage stands alone over all other designs for two important reasons. First that it shoots spitzer bullets along with any cartridge of the correct length and its scope ready. Those two advantages eliminate all the others.

I never liked the Winchester 1886 design and I have owned a few. The M71 was always in short supply it seemed and even from the early 1950's were very expensive. I can remember a M71 deluxe at Gagers shop in Windham, CT asking $325 back in about 1963. Even then, as mentioned, they were not around.

The 94's and Marlins are ok for some I suppose its just that I grew up in the scope era and why bother with a 30-30 when you can have a 30-06? I don't consider the Marlin scope ready due to the hammer being in the way and in general a problem for cold weather use.

The M88 came along much later and never caught on as it did not have the look the traditionalists want nor was it an autoloader that many others choose.

A tube magazine is the worst of magazines.

For a caliber you can have almost anything in a 99. I chose the 358 Win.

How does that eliminate the '88, Finnwolf, or (gasp)BLR? Don't get me wrong, I love 99's, and most are accurate rifles. However, the one piece stock designs of the '88's and Finnwolfs may give them an edge IMO.....

Never said I wanted it to, it just does.......

I remain astounded that bolt action rifles are so popular. One would think that autoloaders would have taken over.

The Remington 740's have out sold the M70's by many times over and the M70 is not even made any longer. Perhaps us forum types are living in the past?

Two reasons:

1) Auto-loaders suck on several different levels......

2) And most weekend warrior deer hunters don't know a good rifle from an A-bolt........

Do you still stand by your earlier statement(s) on the '99 "eliminating all others"?

My point on the newer lever designs is that they are no longer a significant part of the market. Here in CT most of the rifle interest is 'tactical'.

It used to be cowboy guns and fast draw.

Personally, I find the best levergun to be whichever one Im currently shouldering. I tend to be partial to Winchesters. Despite all the ballywho about pointy bullets, my levergun loads work just fine out to about 200yrds. I'm not one of those folks who confuses artillery practice with hunting, so 200 or so yards is fine with me.
In my opinion, the marketplace is the last place to make a judgement about much of anything. Folks are lead by the nose with all kinds of propoganda and lies. Some innovations never made it, not because they werent good, but because of a lack of exposure, negative press, or bad timing. Other innovations should have died a quick death, but hung around for god knows what reason. For the life of me, I still dont understand white line spacers.
I don't think that popularity = effectiveness.
It seems to me that just about ever hunter during centerfire season is using a scoped bolt action rifle of some type or other.
Heck, even the in line muzzle loaders all are based on the same monotonous model. If you ask many of these folks, you will get the response that they got themselves this type of rig cuz 1) It has a flat shooting magnum cartridge that is good for waaay out there, 2) It what was recommened by whoever, 3)They read about it somewhere and had to have one, 4) Its similar to what so and so uses and he got lots of game.
Its a rare hunter who really knows much of anything about his weapon.
I do think that I'm the last of a very stubborn breed of levergunners. This, however, has nothing to do with effectiveness of the traditional levergun. Truth is, most of todays hunters have never shouldered a levergun, never used iron sights, never loaded a round of their own handloads.
Just because the majority of folks are ignorant of the real virtues of levergunning and woodcraft does not make these things less viable, it just makes todays hunters the poorer for it.

Well, since no one else seems willing, I'll put in a vote for the 1895 Winchester. I know, I know, I'm wrong, but I just love the damn things, besides, they really are good rifles, just not everyones cup of tea.

Tim

If I had to pick just one super-duper lever gun and a cartridge to go with it, it would be the Winchester Model 65, in .218 Bee.

As much as I love the Model 64, the little 65 is still the "Sultan of Slick", in my book. My favorite version has a 22" rapid-taper barrel, semi-beavertail fore-end, half magazine, pistol grip stock with shotgun butt, and a bolt-mounted peep sight. If I was a gopher, that's the way I'd want to be taken out. Bees rule, ... Hornets drool.

Second place (or is it third?) goes to the Savage 99H carbine, with barrel band, chambered for the .303 Savage cartridge, ... just 'cuz it's so dayumn cool.

I just picked up a 1942 mfg. Winchester 64. It's my favorite lever gun(for now). Don't know how this action can be slicker than a pre-64 94, but mine sure is. Have owned a cupple of Winchester 92's and they're prolly the "slickest' of all lever actions. (presently have a Browning 92 and a Navey Arms 92) Also had a Browning 65, 218 Bee that I let get away.
As mentioned the Marlin 39 is about "tops" for rimfires. Really like my "new to me" Mountie. Also have a Winchester 94-22 which is a close second.
Guss it's really hard to narrow it down to just one that is the best. Gotta own a bunch, just to compare! (grin!)
Virgil B.

I agree with you, Tim. Especially after replacing those buckhorn sights... Love those Winchesters, especially the '95s.

Those buckhorns are awful, I just wish there was an easy way to put a peep on them without drilling holes. Something you never hear about them is their triggers. Mine were all made before WWI and they all have excellent triggers.

Tim

Savage 99's good shooters,great to carry in your hand, beautiful design, easy to load, and unload. I knew an old fellow who always threw his hat on the ground to unload his winchester into.then had to fish a couple out of the snow. I still do that with my marlin 336 and laugh remembering that old man.

Gotta love the old 95 especially in the venerable .405 win , dont know about lions and rhino but would sure make one sweet set up for everything in North America....

Walker wrote:

My cousin has a Savage 99 chambered in .303 Savage. Not sure what model it is or if it was a carbine....but I know it was not a take down and the barrel was of medium weight.

He and I would reload together.....and from time to time we'd reload the .303 Savage. Peculiar looking round. The Savage could outshoot nearly every one of my bolt action rifles. Not bad for a firearm that was made in the early 1920's.

What was the reason for the .303 if it was the ballistic twin of the 30-30? Why didn't Savage simply make the much more powerful .300 Savage their .30 caliber entry into the field rather than set up the logical competition between the .303 and the .300?

Makes no sense to me.

I've read that the .303 Savage was actually on the market a few months before Winchester's .30 WCF. Not sure if that's true, though. Maybe Les (Violator22) or one of the other Savage collectors here can shed some light.


Do you mean ... competition between the .303 Savage and the .30 WCF?

The .300 Savage cartridge wasn't invented until about 1920, and I think Charles Newton had a hand in that development, which came even after the introduction of the .22 Savage Hi-Power and the .250-3000.

Funny, this whole thing has gone 1895 vs 1899.
I like Savage guns, always have, but all 99s are not created equal. The .303, despite its name, still used a .308" bullet, the difference was, it was loaded with 190grs. of weight. Folks today load the .303 as the lesser cousin of the 30-30 mostly due to caution and the age and unknown abuse heaped upon 99s in .303.
The real downfall of the Savage 99 lies in the chamberings. Traditional levergunners like heavy bullets at modest velocities, and the only Savage cartridge to fit this bill was the old .303-the .250, .300, .308WCF seem to make up the bulk of the chamberings I've seen, all fine rounds, yet not one of them the equal to the old Krag, or the 30-06 with a good 220 softpoint.
Folks tell me they made the 99 in a bunch of other chamberings, I even heard someone say they made some in .375 WCF. If that was true, now that would make a levergunner proud.
If I had to choose between the 99 and the 95, well, just because of those great cartridges, the Winchester gets the nod.

Don't forget the M99 was chambered for the .358 Winchester!

Huh?


Savage Levergun Chamberings :

.375 Win.
.358 Win.
.308 Win.
.284 Win.
.243 Win.

.38-55 Win.
.32-40 Win.
.30-30 Win.
.25-35 Win.

7mm-08 Rem.
.22-250 Rem.

.303 Savage
.300 Savage
.250-3000 Savage
.22 Savage Hi-Power


Edited to add: There was also a .410 shotgun barrel offered for take-down models.

Far as I can tell, anything other than the .250, .300, or .308 is pretty darn rare around here.
How many .375s have you seen?
Me, I've seen zero.
Thus my point about chamberings, and my choice for the 95.

Okay, I see. You prefer the '95 Winchester because it's easier to find one of those in a traditional levergun chambering, like the .30-40 Krag. (grin)

I'm a big fan of leverguns, generally, and the '95 Winchester is an interesting design, and it has a colorful history, to boot. I'll admit, though, that the protruding box magazine is a deal breaker, for me. I'd be happy to hang one on the wall, but would not care to hunt with one, given my 'druthers.

Elmer Keith wasn't a big fan of the '95's form, either. He once likened it to "a poisoned pup, ripening in the sun." A harsh critique, maybe, but Elmer wasn't one to beat around the bush.

I've thought many times of buying a '95. Probably would not use it much, though.........

405 would be the chambering, of course........

I've got three and they are all Winchester models and Browning designs.
#1 1886 45-70 Accurate, strong, smooth.
#2 1892 45 Colt Yes it's a Rossi, thin of it as 45-70 short.
#3 1895 405 Winchester and 30-06, Accurate, bull strong, these two calibers should handle anything on this continent.
Jim

Well for me the Savage 99 is the most functional/practicle , I have used a 300 sav. with excelent results of several critirs. but my first hunting rifle was a Marlin 336 in 30/30 and I keep coming back them . Both models work wonderfully and are completely dependable in my experience. I would be happy to carry either one after deer ( or elk for that matter).

Savage 989 in 300 Savage made just after WW2. It is smooth, fast and powerful enough for all lower 48 hunting (with proper bullets)

Mak wrote:


Interesting take.

I always thought that the biggest STRENGTH of the Savage 99 was its ability to handle high pressure rounds including the fine .300 Savage and later chamberings in .284 Win and .358 Winchester (just to name a few). The Model 94 is a fine rifle and the modest 30-30 Winchester is fully capable of taking deer at any REASONABLE range. That said....the .300 Savage adds another 500 fps to the speed of the 30-30 Win with the ability to use bullets with far better ballistic properties.

Does this matter out to 150 yards? Hardly a bit. But to think that hunters REJECTED the Savage because it was chambered in a high pressure round...that doesn't make a lick of sense.

I have seen (and shot) some beautiful pre 1964 Winchesters. I love 'em. They don't HAVE to be anymore that what they are. My personal opinion is that the biggest single flaw in the Winchesters and the Marlin is that their most popular rifles (the Model 94 and Model 64)and I believe all of the Marlins were not capable of being chambered in high pressure rounds.

The .303 Savage is actually a .311 caliber. From the best of my knowledge it will shoot .308 caliber bullets without much fuss.

.

Which is best? The Winchester 86/92 or 95? Maybe the 94. Truth is, they are all great guns. I have Marlin 336s Winchester 94s and a Savage 99. They are very good at what they were designed to do. So it comes down to the intended use and, most of all, personal preference. In reading this thread I can see where presonal preference is the primary issue. The 95 and 99 are most likely the strongest and fire higher velocity cartridges but in deep woods hunting fast handling is the issue. Long range and high velocity are of little use in dense woods and are not needed. So which is best? Best for what?

The best is the one YOU like.

Jim

Come on, JB, PICK ONE, dammit!



As far as the strongest of the strong, the blue ribbon might go to the 88 Winchester, Browning BLR, or the SAKO Finnwolf, .... but nobody likes any of those. (Ine juss keeeeedeeeen!)

I guess the question of "best" lever action rifle is purposely subjective.

The question of "best" should include a rifle that is not only beautiful and of the highest quality, but should have a world class design. That is, it should be a great shooter and FUNCTION really well. Lastly, there ought to be an element of universal desirability. A rifle that is a collector.

Notice: For me, for a lever rifle to qualify....the rifle doesn't NEED to be a great hunting rifle. The Henry rifles have a great deal to offer and are very beautiful and yet many consider the Henry to be more of a shooter and not as much as a hunter.

Good discussion so far......lets keep it going.

Hey Walker, I have a fair sized Winchester 94 collection. Does that tell you anything? And, almost 7 million gun buyers have agreed that it was a great firearm.

I still stand by my first post!
They are all great.

Jim

.

Savage 99E, post war, plain Jane model, stock not even checkered. Most basic model and my major deer blaster.

Cur Dog...what caliber is your Savage 99E in? Also, what year did Savage begin to chamber their 99's for calibers other than the big 4? (.22 Imp, 250-300, .303 Savage and .300 Savage?)

I saw a beautiful model 99 in .358 Winchester a few years ago at a gun show. The dark walnut stock was incredible. I think it was being sold for just under $500 and the year was like 1990 or something. I know now that I should have bought it....but I was at the gun show looking for a Whitworth Mark X Mauser action for a .35 Whelen I was building. I actually found the action I was looking for....but saw this Savage M99 in .358 Win. Kinda cool.

The .303 British uses a .312" diameter, the .303 Savage, a .308". Folks have confused them in the past, but they are different cartridges.
The idea that the 99 can handel super high pressure is one we will disagree with. They are strong rifles, way ahead of their time, and they inspire a passionate following, but a hot .308WCF is pushing it in the Savage.
The 99s are designed around short cartridges. These are at their best with light to medium weight bullets for caliber. These type of cartridges are deadly when properly employed, yet they lack the extra insurance of a heavy for caliber bullet when the shots are less than ideal.
The Winchester 94 is a fine rifle, especially in pre-64 guise. It has proven itself already, and needs no help from me.
The Winchester 1895 has always had folks lining up to dish it, usually on questionable grounds. I've heard one writer say it handels like a truck axle. Well, I've never taken a truck axle out hunting, so maybe I'm not qualified, but I find the 1895 in either carbine or rifle to be responsive and lively.
Sure, Elmer Keith dished it, but if word of mouth and period photos are any indication, there were plenty of folks who didn't share Mr. Keiths opinion on this matter.
Its funny, those who like their militaria seem to really like box magazines that hang way down on their rifles. I never understood why the small magazine of the 1895 drew so much flak.
Finally, spitzers in the 99? Well, the 95 can use em with equal aplomb.
Sometimes I think that those who are the most critical are the most heard. Critics of Winchesters have always been vociferous, but for them, thats why there are other brands.
I still vote for the Winchester 1895.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, JB, but yeah, .... good pick.

Concerning the .303 Savage, people may get it and the British round mixed up, but as originally designed, .303 Savage rifles had a groove diameter of .308 but used larger diameter bullets.
I have several bullets pulled from pre-war ammo of different makes that measure .311, later ammo was apparently loaded with the smaller diameter bullet.

Tim

Periscope Depth: My 99E is in .308 Win and was made in 1962. As for the dates of when cartridges other than the (4)Savage ones were introduced with the the 99, I'd have to direct you to the Savage Forum for information from the 99 experts. I've been in the same situation you were in as far as passing on a nice 99 only to regret it later. I was at a Ohio Gun Collectors show years back (got a pass from a gun dealer friend to attend and went with him, otherwise you had to be a member to get in or be able to buy a gun). I saw more 99's than I ever saw in one place. There was one dealer from Kentucky, that my friend knew, that had 100+ 99's from parts guns to NIB ones. At the time, I was caught by the Weatherby bug and was saving up for one so I did not care about buying anything else. Looking back I wish I had handed over the cash to the guy I was attending with to have him buy a nice 99 in 243 Win for me. I remember looking at all the guns and bam, there was the one that caught my eye It was only $325.00. What was I thinking?!!!

What was I thinking? indeed. I'm to the point where I don't like to think about the past anymore. The guns that were sitting on tables at shows screaming "buy me you idiot, you'll never see another at this price", it makes me woozy.

Tim

New calibers started showing up in 1957 in Savage 99's (well, a few snuck out in 1956 I hear but 1957 was the mass production). 243, 308, 358, then later the 284, 22-250, 7mm08, and even 375 Winchester.

Had a 1980's Winchester 94 when I was young and stupid, never liked them much since. Got my dad's 1954 Marlin 336 and love it. But, the pre-1960 Savage 99's have far more style and class imho than any other over-the-counter lever gun.

And confused has it right about 303 Savage diameters.. Although some old guns may measure out to have a .311 bore, there were not enough to document it as a standard. 308 is the standard size, but some of the original ammo was 311.

1938 99T in 250 Savage... yum...

Yum indeed!

Thanks for clarifying some of that info on the .303 Savage. I was sure my cousin was using .311 bullets....oh well.

I think the .358 Winchester is the perfect lever action caliber save for the .348 Winchester.

Any sane person realizes that this is all the gun you'll ever need provided you aren't shooting over canyons or trailing a wounded and angry Grizzly bear.

I like ALL lever guns but (obviously) am partial to Savage 99's as they have been used in the family since 1919/20 when my Grandfather bought his first 1899 takedown 250-3000.

I own a 1950 EG model 99 and I too am a user of "heavy for caliber" bullets. The lightest bullets I use in mine are 180 grain and I also use the Speer 200 grain and get 2400 fps easily.

I just recently tried a box of 220 grain Hornady RN bullets in my .300 Savage for the fun of it and they shoot great at velocities of 2250/2300 fps.... That's faster than the 30-40 Krag throws em and accuracy is good!...I'd say that equals the 30-40 and it is close on the heals of the 30-06 in factory loadings... Point is if ya handload many things are possible beyond the original specs...

When my kin returned from WW2, they returned to hunting, and the rifle of choice was the Winchester 1895 chambered in the ol 30-06.
Favourite loads included Westerns' 220 Silvertips.
Western is now long gone, as are everyone who fought the Nazis, but I don see a compelling reason to change. Glad for all who prefer their other brands, for myself, I am quite happy with my 1895, and I'll probably die that way.
Good luck and good shootin.

Winchester Model 71. 348WCF. Top of the food chain in lever guns!

yep.......